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Iron Wind Metals does make resin office type buildings as well, I think.

But any 6mm buildings will do.

Nostromodamus wrote:I have a bunch of DZC terrain I use. Works fine.

It's not exactly to scale, but it is more than close enough when you consider even the 'Mechs are not to scale with each other. It's a lot better than GW ruins, that's for sure.

Albertorius wrote:Up to a point, yeah. One of the beauties of 3025 play and of a lot of the designs is that... well they are anything but perfect. You need to work around their problems an to have a bit of luck. It's not as much "frowned" as that many are a tad too optimized.

And even the "good" designs have blatant flaws: I'm a big fan of the original Phoenix Hawk, for example, and it is a fine design, all told... but the MGs don't have much of an impact in game other than allowing it to blow up spectacularly, and you're always a PPC hit to the head away from oblivion (6 Armor, 3 Internal). Even then, I dearly love playing with one

All the above said, there's nothing wrong about playing with modded/custom designs, particularly not with 3025 tech, IMHO. There's always drawbacks, no matter what you do, and your perfect 'mech my be another guy's mess, so... with the changing eras and tech advance, they seemed to go much more for optimized designs (the Turkina-B, for example, is an unholy terror).

Even most of the 3039 designs are pretty good offering a lot of tradeoffs for designs. They can be abused to a point, but not nearly as much as Clan Tech can (ER Large Laser in the head, anyone?).

XL engines are the best weight saver but leave your 'mech to easily crippled. Endo-steel and Ferro-Fibrous can leave you with no room to place the weapons. CASE cannot be put in limbs, and only the torsos which doesn't save your XL engine, and costs a slot and half a ton.

But that is just personal builds, most of the official 3039 and IS 3050 designs are still pretty balanced (if you use a Battle Value) so that numbers can carry the day.

So I recently picked up some DZC terrain, excited about finally putting it on the table and to use!! I don't suppose anyone has any previous experience with burnindesigns.net terrain? Some of it looks compatible but I'm hesitant being I know no one who has any of their products.

I haven't, but I don't worry about terrain scale when I'm playing Battletech. Nobody really makes things like skyscrapers or really tall buildings for 6mm games (that are even remotely affordable), so buying a larger scale building to have roughly the same footprint on the table is okay to me.

Thanks again on the terrain suggestions everyone. One of our players had infinity terrain which does a decent job along with a few odds and ends added to the mix.

I'm working on a personal mercenary Time of War lance for the upcoming campaign and I could use some suggestions on the 4th mech. So far I am set on these three and would prefer a mech that can keep up with jump (at least 5/8/5) and thats fairly ammo independent.

Griffin 1S, Wolverine 6M, Phoenix Hawk 1D

I've been considering either an Ostroc 2M, Vulcan 5T, Javelin 10F or Firestarter but I'm having a hard time selling myself on one over the next. I liked the Vindi 1AA and the Clint 2-3t but the armor on both made me loose interest and most others for 3025 that I've looked at just seem to be either lacking armor or pretty ammo dependent mechs.

Has anyone tried Monsterpocalypse buildings in their Btech games?

Those always seemed like they would work well with a little bit of effort (removing bases, repainting etc.).

eBay has them for a few bucks a building which doesn't seem too cost prohibitive.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Has anyone tried Monsterpocalypse buildings in their Btech games?

Those always seemed like they would work well with a little bit of effort (removing bases, repainting etc.).

eBay has them for a few bucks a building which doesn't seem too cost prohibitive.

It works pretty well, obviously out of scale. You need to remove the base it comes with, but it needs a base. Without that base they are very light and prone to falling over.

I'd go with either the Javelin 10F or the Firestarter 9K. Both have good armor for their tonnage and a similar movement profile to the Phoenix Hawk so the lance can split into supporting pairs.
The Javelin has good close in firepower while the Firestarter packs a large laser, but admittedly is in a bit of trouble as its secondaries (2 small lasers and 2 flamers) are primarily anti-infantry. That said, given that the Phoenix Hawk -1D drops the MGs, the Firestarter would be there to provide anti-infantry capability.

I feel the Ostroc sacrifices too much armor and firepower for mobility. I suppose the Vulcan -5T would work as well as it has the close-in firepower of the Javelin plus the anti-infantry capability of the Firestarter.

 naxium wrote:
Thanks again on the terrain suggestions everyone. One of our players had infinity terrain which does a decent job along with a few odds and ends added to the mix.

I'm working on a personal mercenary Time of War lance for the upcoming campaign and I could use some suggestions on the 4th mech. So far I am set on these three and would prefer a mech that can keep up with jump (at least 5/8/5) and thats fairly ammo independent.

Griffin 1S, Wolverine 6M, Phoenix Hawk 1D

I've been considering either an Ostroc 2M, Vulcan 5T, Javelin 10F or Firestarter but I'm having a hard time selling myself on one over the next. I liked the Vindi 1AA and the Clint 2-3t but the armor on both made me loose interest and most others for 3025 that I've looked at just seem to be either lacking armor or pretty ammo dependent mechs.

Is there a reason you might prefer the jav or firestart over the vulcan for a merc unit? parts and supply cost difficulties? I see what you mean about the Ostroc after looking further.

 naxium wrote:
Is there a reason you might prefer the jav or firestart over the vulcan for a merc unit? parts and supply cost difficulties? I see what you mean about the Ostroc after looking further.

While the Vulcan is fluffed as a pretty solid anti-infantry machine, that's about all it can do. An AC/2 is simply a terrible weapon for a mobile medium 'Mech, and with the minimum range, it actually isn't any good at fighting infantry or vehicles in the terrain you'd find infantry.

If there was a Vulcan that swapped it out for a large laser, it'd be one of the best medium harasser 'Mechs out there.

Javelin parts would be more plentiful, and then Firestarters, as they are somewhat more rare. Vulcans aren't super common either, as they aren't the easiest to work on.

Also, Vulcans are ridiculously ugly.

Werent we referring to the 5T variant vulcan? Drops the ac2 for 3 med lasers and extra armor? Seems to make the best of both worlds combining the jav and fstarter?

 naxium wrote:
Werent we referring to the 5T variant vulcan? Drops the ac2 for 3 med lasers and extra armor? Seems to make the best of both worlds combining the jav and fstarter?

I was talking about the standard Vulcan. If a model number isn't mentioned, I assume you're talking about the standard variant.

The 5T is a fine variant, and it does skirmish and do anti-infantry better than the Javelin. Depending on the Firestarter variant, it might still be better at AI work. It isn't a bad 'Mech at all.

Still incredibly fugly, though. I might pick a Javelin just so I didn't have to see it on the table.

 naxium wrote:
Is there a reason you might prefer the jav or firestart over the vulcan for a merc unit? parts and supply cost difficulties? I see what you mean about the Ostroc after looking further.

The Vulcan is the rarest of the group and as noted, is ugly. Thinking some more, the Javelin probably makes the most sense as it has hands which aren't too useful from an in-game sense for fighting other mechs, but useful for picking up things like say cargo containers during a raid.

cannonfodr wrote:

 naxium wrote:
Is there a reason you might prefer the jav or firestart over the vulcan for a merc unit? parts and supply cost difficulties? I see what you mean about the Ostroc after looking further.

The Vulcan is the rarest of the group and as noted, is ugly. Thinking some more, the Javelin probably makes the most sense as it has hands which aren't too useful from an in-game sense for fighting other mechs, but useful for picking up things like say cargo containers during a raid.

Also a valid point on the hands.

Valid points I hadn't considered before guys, thanks!
Expanding on this lance, I'm working on a Merc company as a personal project to have going forward whenever I play any unrelated games. I'll probably write up battle reports and create kind of a history for the unit or at least thats my intentions. This is what I have/where I am at with the unit so far, suggestions are much appreciated. I'd like to stick less ammo dependent variants of mechs for obvious fluff/story reasons.

Lance 1
Griffin 1S
Wolverine 6M
Phoenix Hawk 1D
Javelin 10F

Lance 2
Battlemaster 1G
Hunchback 4G
Centurion AL
Rifleman 4D

Lance 3
Grasshopper 5H
Wyvern 6N
Blackjack 1DB
Valkyrie QF

I'd like to include these but i am not sure how to organize these with the unit

2 Savannah Masters
2 Gabriel Hovercraft
2 SRM Carriers
6 hexes of infantry
1 APC troop transport

I'm playing with the idea of adding a pair of LRM tanks or some air/artillery support but undecided as of yet. Lance 1 is pretty set in stone for me, the others are more flexible but I think I'm happy with where they are at. I'd wanted to fit in a Zeus, Spider and Banshee somewhere but they just didnt seem to fit, I think I like the Blackjack and Centurion but I dunno and I want to love the Rifleman but he is similar to Warhammer in that I just can never seem to be 100% happy with any of the variants even though I love the models. I just love the Rifleman and Fafnir models for some reason.

Warhammers seem to work best for me in a defensive role. Even a 3025/3039 version is a force to be reckoned with, if it is parked in water, the heat sinks in the legs allow it near continuous fire with it's PPCs. Sometimes new isn't necessarily better, and it really is just the way it is used.

The Rifleman has way too much of a heat problem to be really effective. Sure, it has good weapons, but it can't use half of them at any time. I recommend the 3C variant instead if you are going for a Rifleman. It is a little light on ammo, but it is also light on armor, so it wasn't going to be in a fight long anyway.

The Wyvern is a strange choice, you just don't see them used much. I'd rather have a Vindicator (1R) than a Wyvern, but I love me some Vindicators.

I also prefer Gladiators (4R) over Wolverines, but that's because I like PPCs.

Vehicles typically operate in lances of 4 as well. The Savannah Master and Gabriels would make a good scout lance. The SRM carriers need to pair up with something, Hetzers or Demolishers would make a good short-range ambush unit for city fighting. Alternatively LRM carriers or Shreks could provide contrasting long-range punch.

For infantry, foot/motorized platoons operate in platoons of 28 while jump platoons operate in platoons of 21. Can't remember exactly, but I think a hex of infantry is supposed to represent a full platoon of infantry or a squad/point of battlearmor. I also believe that an APC can only carry a squad of infantry so you'd need 4 APCs for a foot platoon. Motorized infantry represent units with organic transportation, bikes/jeeps that don't really have any effect on the battlefield short of making the infantry more mobile. Jump troops have jetpacks so they don't need transport. Not too useful in an open field fight, but should be a nasty trick once you're in a city.

cannonfodr wrote:
Vehicles typically operate in lances of 4 as well. The Savannah Master and Gabriels would make a good scout lance. The SRM carriers need to pair up with something, Hetzers or Demolishers would make a good short-range ambush unit for city fighting. Alternatively LRM carriers or Shreks could provide contrasting long-range punch.

For infantry, foot/motorized platoons operate in platoons of 28 while jump platoons operate in platoons of 21. Can't remember exactly, but I think a hex of infantry is supposed to represent a full platoon of infantry or a squad/point of battlearmor. I also believe that an APC can only carry a squad of infantry so you'd need 4 APCs for a foot platoon. Motorized infantry represent units with organic transportation, bikes/jeeps that don't really have any effect on the battlefield short of making the infantry more mobile. Jump troops have jetpacks so they don't need transport. Not too useful in an open field fight, but should be a nasty trick once you're in a city.

One of my favorite vehicle lances to construct was two Ontos tanks (3026 medium laser variant) with two dual AC/20 variant Demolishers for city fights, or 2 Demoilishers and 2 Schrek PPC carriers for open terrain engagements. Nothing like having a `Mech turn a city corner and face 16 medium lasers and 4 AC/20 shots. Or parking the PPC carriers on a hill with the Demolishers providing interference so the opponent has to decide to rush 4 AC/20s or stay back and get pummeled by 6 PPCs.

Regarding infantry transport the Maxim hover tank can transport a full infantry platoon. They are speedy little buggers too and provide some nice fire support once the infantry are disembarked.

Clan and Comstar organization is a little different.

Comstar stars the same on the individual portion for Level 1 of 1 Mech = 1 Vehicle = 1 Aero = 4 BA = 21/28 PBI. Where they differ is when then go up steps, multiplying times 6, so their Lance is 6 'Mechs (though usually combined arms, like 3 'Mechs, 2 Vehicles, 28 PBI), the next level is 6 Level 2s, or 36 Level 1s.

Clans have a different method.
1 Point:
* 1 'Mech
* 2 Combat Vehicles or Aeros
* 5 Elementals
* 25 PBIs

Star is 5 Points. Binary is 2 Stars. Trinary is 3 Stars. Etcetera.

Hey, I saw someone asking about Burn-In Designs stuff. I have a small table's worth and I'm a big fan (particularly considering price). There's nothing fancy about it, and I wasn't looking to invest heavily in a side-game.

I run 3025 Battlemechs in a version of non-hex Battletech that I've designed myself (hence the circular bases, etc.). Here are some pictures featuring the mechs and buildings. Note I slapped orange "gels" inside the buildings to represent windows. All the buildings are super simply sprayed one colour. You could probably turn them into really nice stuff if you had some patience.

Those are good looking buildings. I may need to invest in some of those.

Awesome! thanks for the pics, I'm really going to have to place an order with them now!

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions though a couple new questions have arisen from the new info.

Why is the rifleman 4D so frowned upon? I understand the basic principle of its heat issues but when I view it i see something that uses the ppc's as more of a gap closer for the unit and switching to Llasers once the brawlings began? in that regard it doesnt feel so bad and its low armor isnt as threatened by an ammo hit? the varient just seems to fit the bill better for a more brawler centric unit or maybe drop a ppc and Llaser for some mlasers?
From what I've read the Wyvern was actually a pretty common mech design? just not often used in non city defense ops? The concept for the entire unit is a ragtag band of misfits from different backgrounds so i was thinking maybe a merc or militia unit thats planet/system got trounced and the pilot moved on to merc life with what little he/she still had? It seems like a pretty solid mech, decent armor, well rounded weps for various threats and dmg potential?

I like the idea of pairing the srmC's with infantry, considering picking up more transports for them to be a more mobile unit and the carriers acting more as convoy security role. I'm hesitant to give them too much in the way of good/decent equipment etc, trying for the "barely getting by with what we can scrounge up" feel for the unit as a whole. hopefully that helps explain my choices a bit more too.

what would you consider a reasonable air unit that'd be cheap and easy to maintain for a less than well off merc unit? I was thinking maybe a boomerang for recon/intel gathering ops but maybe an attack helicopter wouldnt be stretching it either?

Switching gears, reading some of the online fluff has made me want to work on the ghost bears unit I had started years ago. As it stands the Post clan invasion era mechs I currently own are 2 Kodiaks, a Bear cub, Grizzly, Stone Rhino, Manowar/Gargoyle, 2 Thors, 2 Lokis, a Blood Kite, Kraken, Fafnir, Crimson Langur, Colossus, Templar, Uziel, WolverineIIC, HighlanderIIC, HunchbackIIC, Thug, Shogun, TitanII. What would make a sensible Ghostbear unit with what I currently have and what else would you add to make it seem like a full ghost bear force?

The Rifleman is frowned on because it cannot handle its heat. Not even a little. Any two weapons fire, even without moving, and you are on the heat scale.

Fire 2 PPCs, and you are slowed down from heat.

It can never use more than half of its firepower, and then it has to neuter itself MORE to cool down.

Sure there is no ammo to explode, but it isn't a major battlefield threat despite the firepower it has because if it uses that firepower, it has to spend at least a turn or two cooling down. That's why the Ostroc/Ostsol are far superior designs. Or the AC/10 Rifleman I mentioned before.

The Wyvern was a somewhat common Star League era 'Mech. After the First Succession War and the Ares Conventions, there wasn't much fighting in cities done at all, so the Wyvern didn't have a niche to fit in anymore. And I'd rather have 2 UrbanMechs over a Wyvern.

(WRITER'S NOTE) I own 36 UrbanMechs. I'll take them over a lot of things simply for hilarity.


SRM Carriers make good city defense and ambush units, not so much convoy protectors. You need something with a little more speed, armor, and preferably a turret for convoy duty. I'd look into Goblins, because then you have firepower AND infantry carrying capability.


For your Ghost Bears, the Kodiaks, Grizzly, Stone Rhino, Gargoyle, Thors, Lokis, Blood Kite, Kraken, Highlander IIC and Hunchback IIC were all around at the initial Inner Sphere Invasion.

The Bear Cub came along much later, roughly Jihad time and after.

The Fafnir is a Lyran design and would never be found in a Ghost Bear force. It would be hard to justify one outside of a loyal Lyran regiment. They don't really give them to many people.

Crimson Langur could be used any time after Operation Bulldog, but it is not a common Clan design, it would be pretty rare with the Bears.

The Colossus is a Solaris chassis. It doesn't really fit in ANY force, but still looks cool.

Templar would not see any use in the Bears, it is a hardcore Davion design.

The Uziel saw widespread deployment in the FedCom Civil War between the Lyran and Davions. Afterwards it might be found in mercenary hands as well.

The Wolverine IIC doesn't exist as a chassis or a design, so I have no idea what you have.

The Thug is an old Star League design, it could be used at any time, even for your introtech mercenary unit.

The Shogun was a Wolf's Dragoon exclusive, and rare even to them. It is almost impossible to justify one out of their hands in-universe wise. I think the Word of Blake stole one during the Jihad, and after the near destruction of the Dragoons it was thought that might be the last one left.
That being said, there is an UTTERLY TERRIFYING Shogun IIC, that could be a Ghost Bear design, but they are super rare in the Clans, too.

The Titan II is a resurrected chassis brought back during the Jihad by the Word of Blake. I would imagine a large percentage of them were destroyed during the Jihad, but it is possible to have salvaged one from the WoB Protectorate Militia.

To add you your Bears, some of their staples like Fire Moths, Vultures, Kingfishers, and Executioners never goes badly. For later years, Karhu and Bruins are around, as are things like the Arcas and a couple versions of the Ursus.

 Mattlov wrote:
The Wolverine IIC doesn't exist as a chassis or a design, so I have no idea what you have.

Probably the WVR-7H Wolverine II. It most definitely can't be a Cojurer as that's NOT a Wolverine IIC

Yup thanks Ghaz, Its definately the WVR-7H lol although I believe I do have a conjurer laying around somewhere now that you mention it.... time to turn the house upside down.

I remember buying the colossus not knowing what it was just because i thought it looked awesome.... and its never seen any play since :/
You have sold me on 2 Lrm carriers to go with the srm cars Mattlov
It seems like when I do decide to run a rifleman it will have to be a heavily kitted/custom one for me to be happy with it.
This is totally my opinion but that is an insane amount of urbies! If you dropped that across the table I'd either pray for infinite LRM ammo or an orbital strike... lol

I know that the ghost bears used snow ravens a lot for aerospace and air support but what would a typical combined arms bears unit include for armor/tank support and infantry/elementals?

For anyone interested I got in some of the ironwind metals resin buildings with my last order, They could stack a little better but I would say they are certainly worth the price overall.

LRM Carriers and SRM carriers are still really slow. They aren't really designed to move in battle. And since they lack turrets, moving them around is an exercise in positioning, especially against quicker units. Don't get me wrong, they are both useful, but they are only useful in a few narrow roles. SRM carriers shine in ambush and city defense, and LRM carriers are great when they can find a spot to park in and just empty their ammo bins.

I run a game the night before GenCon called URBIELORD. It requires a lot of Urbies. Did I mention I have an Armorcast scale Urbie, too?

Introtech Rifleman variants are all crap, because they focus on firepower, at the expense of ammo or the heat sinks to use it. Crappy Harmony Gold legacy designs. That's why I like the AC/10 version. Yeah, it has ammo and not much of it, but it doesn't have much armor either, so you aren't going to NEED a lot. They get better once they shove XL engines and RACs on them.

Clan combined arms untis didn't really come around until after the Jihad. Before that, it was 'Mechs and Elementals. Vehicles and standard infantry were looked down upon as either old, washed up, or freeborn. The Bears produced a couple infantry combat vehicles to drop off Elementals faster, but they'd still rather use Fire Moths for that.

Do you know the joy of the Master Unit List?

 Mattlov wrote:
Clan combined arms untis didn't really come around until after the Jihad. Before that, it was 'Mechs and Elementals. Vehicles and standard infantry were looked down upon as either old, washed up, or freeborn. The Bears produced a couple infantry combat vehicles to drop off Elementals faster, but they'd still rather use Fire Moths for that.

Clan Hell's Horses being an exception, I believe. They often use Vehicles in combat, even before the Great Refusal, which led to their development of the QuadVee.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Mattlov wrote:
Clan combined arms untis didn't really come around until after the Jihad. Before that, it was 'Mechs and Elementals. Vehicles and standard infantry were looked down upon as either old, washed up, or freeborn. The Bears produced a couple infantry combat vehicles to drop off Elementals faster, but they'd still rather use Fire Moths for that.

Clan Hell's Horses being an exception, I believe. They often use Vehicles in combat, even before the Great Refusal, which led to their development of the QuadVee.

True. I didn't include the Horses, since he was asking about Ghost Bear stuff. The primary use the Bears have for the Horses is target practice.

 Mattlov wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Mattlov wrote:
Clan combined arms untis didn't really come around until after the Jihad. Before that, it was 'Mechs and Elementals. Vehicles and standard infantry were looked down upon as either old, washed up, or freeborn. The Bears produced a couple infantry combat vehicles to drop off Elementals faster, but they'd still rather use Fire Moths for that.

Clan Hell's Horses being an exception, I believe. They often use Vehicles in combat, even before the Great Refusal, which led to their development of the QuadVee.

True. I didn't include the Horses, since he was asking about Ghost Bear stuff. The primary use the Bears have for the Horses is target practice.

True, but always useful to know of who has a tendency to do what in your local neighborhoods, especially if that enemy hates you and tries to take some of your Spheroid worlds.