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Terrific

 WhiteHaven wrote:
When I first got into the hobby almost 20 years asgo now I painted as I played and at least half of my army was the grey horde. As time passed I self imposed a rule upon myself that I would not field any unpainted miniatures. Let me tell you that decision has delayed so many games and lists but it did get me to buckle down and actually paint instead of procrastinating. I think color cast sprues in intro sets and the easy to build set are a great idea. For people just getting into the hobby or starting an army it really does give a jump start. Personally though I hope they don't change all the kits to colored sprues since certain sprays tend to have trouble covering red, yellow, or black in particular.

Main benefit IMO is for those who don't want to paint(fair enough). If you do I wouldn't use it as base colour for simple reason it's still not PRIMER so without it for example later paintings dont' stick as well with it.

I don't think GW would offer a painting service, and I wouldn't want them to sell pre-painted models.

I was happy to not paint back in the day, and I'm happy to paint now. Either way, to me the need to build and paint is a core part of the hobby.

You can ussually find assembled and primed models on Ebay for around the same price as NIB.

Claas wrote:
You can ussually find assembled and primed models on Ebay for around the same price as NIB.

With the quality of assembly/priming you see on ebay, you're probably just better off buying lotto tickets. Better odds of getting what you want.

have bought a bit on ebay, as long as you don't mind trying to remove the mould lines from badly painted or terribly primed models it can be ok.

prefer NIB myself, easier to clean up and no need to scrape a silly amount of paint off.

ebay is for stuff thats either dirt cheap or hard to get any other way

I've done pretty well picking up models off eBay, buying several that needed no painting or just a bit of touch-up (we're talking 5-15 minutes with a brush) - for well under NIB. Of course, you can also pick up Rescue jobs for super-cheap, but you're then putting in time (and possibly money) to get it up to spec.

 Stormonu wrote:
I've done pretty well picking up models off eBay, buying several that needed no painting or just a bit of touch-up (we're talking 5-15 minutes with a brush) - for well under NIB. Of course, you can also pick up Rescue jobs for super-cheap, but you're then putting in time (and possibly money) to get it up to spec.

True, horses for things horses run round

got some 50 odd 1st edition genestealers for not all that much that just needed paint, have also had some unassembled metal blisters for not much.

Then there was a 'rescue' carnifex that I ended up binning

 SHUPPET wrote:
Skitarii in the KT box were red, but the Neophytes were still grey, so no

They're actually a non-standard blue grey, not the usual base grey.

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

 stonehorse wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

It could also be a sign that the player may have chronic health issues that make painting difficult, but they still want to play. I'm mostly blind (as well has having a number of other energy sapping health issues), paining is super hard for me, let alone have the energy to focus on it instead of having the energy to cook dinner.

You shouldn't judge another player by their models. You have no idea what their situation is like. Just lay the game and enjoy it.

 Blndmage wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

It could also be a sign that the player may have chronic health issues that make painting difficult, but they still want to play. I'm mostly blind (as well has having a number of other energy sapping health issues), paining is super hard for me, let alone have the energy to focus on it instead of having the energy to cook dinner.

You shouldn't judge another player by their models. You have no idea what their situation is like. Just lay the game and enjoy it.

Why not do what my friend does and pay someone to do it? Is it a cost issue or do you prefer doing it yourself or something?

pm713 wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

It could also be a sign that the player may have chronic health issues that make painting difficult, but they still want to play. I'm mostly blind (as well has having a number of other energy sapping health issues), paining is super hard for me, let alone have the energy to focus on it instead of having the energy to cook dinner.

You shouldn't judge another player by their models. You have no idea what their situation is like. Just lay the game and enjoy it.

Why not do what my friend does and pay someone to do it? Is it a cost issue or do you prefer doing it yourself or something?

I'm disabled, I can't work, my wife can't work a pastime job without us losing my supports. Throwing money at things only works when you have it.

I'm not 100% I'm on board with colored plastic - at least for orks. Because for the new kit, if I'm not interested in yellow, I'll have to paint over it, and the yellow may bleed through a bit.

But for, say, my thousand sons, it would be a huge timesaver.

 Blndmage wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

It could also be a sign that the player may have chronic health issues that make painting difficult, but they still want to play. I'm mostly blind (as well has having a number of other energy sapping health issues), paining is super hard for me, let alone have the energy to focus on it instead of having the energy to cook dinner.

You shouldn't judge another player by their models. You have no idea what their situation is like. Just lay the game and enjoy it.

Surely you have friends or family members who can help, I can't imagine it being too time intensive for a friend or family member to spray your models and apply a wash?

Also, if your sight and energy levels are as bad as you say, how do you manage to play?

 stonehorse wrote:

Spoiler:

 IronBrand wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

If people were just in it for winning they wouldn't be using models they've had for years. They'd be using the flavour of the month. Some people like to treat the game like a boardgame. They should probably at least do something so they can tell their models apart from their opponent's but they're allowed to not enjoy painting but still like the game. Saying otherwise is like saying if someone wants to paint the minis they should be forced to play the game too.

Flavour of the month is however cyclacid, what is hot one edition, will be garbage the next, and after that it will be hot again. Example Necron Destroyers were overpowered in 3rd edition, and then made into garbage in 5th (in order to sell Tomb Blades to the already existing Necron players), then in 7th edition the Destroyer was suddenly back to being good... in order to sell models to those who started Necrons in 5th and bought Tomb Blades.

Ever shifting goal posts. Which is nothing new with GW.

The mindset I alluded to, is in confusing the aim of the game and the point of the game. Now I could just be an old grumbling gamer, but I honestly think that a refusal to paint one's models is a sign that an individual is in the wrong hobby. GW have made collecting models more about the gaming aspect, that is their focus. A set of rules that facilitates the purchasing of models.

I understand that what I am saying may sound harsh, but all I am asking for is for people to at the very least make some progress with their models.

People may not like it, but the assembling and painting is all part and parcel of the hobby, otherwise the models would come prepaints and assembled. It is one of the core aspects of miniature collecting.

It's what the hobby is to you. I'm sure most players want nice painted models. But different people have different priorities and approach the game from different perspectives. Some people will see it as a strategy game, some as basically a board game, some just like the lore and the game is secondary to them, others are into every aspect of the hobby.

You don't really get to enjoy how other people enjoy their hobbies, just like they don't get to tell you how to enjoy yours. Sure I won't like the look of my opponent's army if it's just sprayed hot pink with a $1 rattlecan of enamel paint. But I'm not going to tell them they can't do what they want with their dudes.

I don't really have any family after the last year, and pretty much our entire fereind circle is also disabled, any none of them are interested in 40k.

As for playing, I can't base my models or else I lose them, which I've done a few times, and I tend to be far more tactile with my gaming. I stopped playing in 5th, so not having TLOS has been amazing. I do tend to either play a bit slow, or wind up rushing myself and screwing up aura ranges, and other distance critical things. If I'm lucky I can make it to the FLGS for 40k night once a month, maybe get in one game, but I've also got three months unable to get the energy and having to cancel arraigned games. The local group also seem wary of us Girl players, and can be sexist as hell (as can the online community), but when it's your only group, whatcha gonna do?

Spoiler tags added - BrookM

Too big to quote...
The “paint it or your in the wrong hobby” is nothing more than the modeler version of “get gud”, and I don’t buy into it.

I’ll make the choice on where I decide to spend my hobby time, and I’ll say it right now - it’d really like to get away from the painting aspect of GW’s products. When buying already assembled, mostly/completely painted model’s is available to me, I’ll take it over the hours of doing it myself.

 IronBrand wrote:

It's what the hobby is to you. I'm sure most players want nice painted models. But different people have different priorities and approach the game from different perspectives. Some people will see it as a strategy game, some as basically a board game, some just like the lore and the game is secondary to them, others are into every aspect of the hobby.

You don't really get to enjoy how other people enjoy their hobbies, just like they don't get to tell you how to enjoy yours. Sure I won't like the look of my opponent's army if it's just sprayed hot pink with a $1 rattlecan of enamel paint. But I'm not going to tell them they can't do what they want with their dudes.

I honestly think I am coming from this from a different perspective, which is what is causing the confusion.

It isn't about what I think the hobby is, or what the hobby is to me, but rather what the hobby is. First we need to discombobulate the notion that GW are a hobby. The hobby is Miniature Wargaming, GW are the most successful company within this hobby. The lore they have created for the franchise is just that, a way to build upon their brand and build brand recognition. I approach GW's products like I approach any Miniature Wargame, which to those who are only familiar with GW's products can cause a few interesting outcomes

Miniature Wargaming is defined by the use of painted miniatures, other wise it would be Wargaming with counters/blocks/tokens etc. If the painted miniatures were not an integral part why not just use print outs of the models and stick them on bases?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_wargaming

 Blndmage wrote:


I don't really have any family after the last year, and pretty much our entire fereind circle is also disabled, any none of them are interested in 40k.

As for playing, I can't base my models or else I lose them, which I've done a few times, and I tend to be far more tactile with my gaming. I stopped playing in 5th, so not having TLOS has been amazing. I do tend to either play a bit slow, or wind up rushing myself and screwing up aura ranges, and other distance critical things. If I'm lucky I can make it to the FLGS for 40k night once a month, maybe get in one game, but I've also got three months unable to get the energy and having to cancel arraigned games. The local group also seem wary of us Girl players, and can be sexist as hell (as can the online community), but when it's your only group, whatcha gonna do?

You have my sympathy, that sounds like an unpleasant situation, I hope it improves.

 stonehorse wrote:

Spoiler:

Davor wrote:
Every body plays the "hobby" for varying reasons. There is no right or wrong answer here. Some people love to model, paint and play. Others don't love to play but love the other two. Some just want to play but don't want to paint and assemble because it's no choice.

To say otherwise is just wrong and please stop telling people how to enjoy "the hobby". Seeing how there is lot of grey tide being played shows that some people just don't like to paint.

So to say it's not a big deal to prime or paint, it's easy may be ok for you, but for someone else they have a reason not to do so. So let's please let people enjoy the hobby how they like it.

I disagree, not to sound snobbish, but seeing people play with models they have had for years and no progress has been made indicates an instant gratification mindset. Which is against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon as they are fixated on winning and no care for the form of entertainment the hobby is meant to be.

I am not saying that everyone has to have fully painted forces, but there should be at least signs of progress. If one has time to game, or time to assemble miniatures they have time to at the very least apply some paint, whether that be a primer and a wash, or just a primer. If they can't, ask a friend.

We play with miniatures for the visual and tactile, something that in this digital age is becoming less and less.

Against the hobby and the social contract? Where is this "bible" of the "hobby" you speek off? Yes you have a right to disagree but you are not sounding snobbish at all. You are sounding like a donkey cave. I am sure you don't mean it that way, but to say the "hobby" has to be this way means you are putting YOUR VIEWS on how it should be and telling people how to do it.

There is not one aspect to "the hobby". As was said before there is many parts that make "the hobby". For some it's gaming. For others it's modelling and/or painting. Others it's just reading fluff. "The Hobby" is not everything. Also there is a thing called LIFE. As people explained they might want to do it but can't. That should be that. You shouldn't be saying well do this or that so it can be done. People don't need to explain every personal detail why they don't or can't do it.

Also what is the hobby?

What is being a sport athlete? Someone who plays every sport in the world? So does that mean a hockey player is not an athlete? A baseball player? Basket Ball player? Football player? Football/soccer player? Cricket, swimming, track and field etc etc. Are they athletes? If so it's only one part of "sports".

What is being a reader? If some people read sci fi only does it mean they are not a reader and not in the hobby of reading because they don't read romance books?

So I ask again what is "the hobby"? Is it someone who reads all the Black Library books, buys the minis, paints them models them, converts them, plays with them? So someone who just collects but doesn't play. They are not in the hobby? Or someone who collects, models but doesn't paint but plays. They are not in the hobby? So if people have to paint, what is the standard then? Can you be considered a painter if you only have 3 colours? Or is that ok? Why is 3 colours ok but not 10? Can we say a mini is done if mold lines are still visible? Wouldn't this mean the person is not a modeller then? So therefore he/she is not in the hobby?

While we all have OPINIONS it doesn't mean they are correct or wrong. After all everyone is in for a different reason.

So since you brought up "against the hobby and the social contract it is built upon" now you have to show proof of this since many of us disagree. I will admit when I am wrong. I have admitted many times on Dakka and else where when I have erred or proven wrong. I will gladly say I am wrong but I have never seen this "social contract" or what it takes to get in "the hobby".

Also I find it funny even Games Workshop say people get in "The Hobby" for differing reasons. It's not an ALL IN ONE aspect but many aspects that make the whole.

 stonehorse wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:


I don't really have any family after the last year, and pretty much our entire fereind circle is also disabled, any none of them are interested in 40k.

As for playing, I can't base my models or else I lose them, which I've done a few times, and I tend to be far more tactile with my gaming. I stopped playing in 5th, so not having TLOS has been amazing. I do tend to either play a bit slow, or wind up rushing myself and screwing up aura ranges, and other distance critical things. If I'm lucky I can make it to the FLGS for 40k night once a month, maybe get in one game, but I've also got three months unable to get the energy and having to cancel arraigned games. The local group also seem wary of us Girl players, and can be sexist as hell (as can the online community), but when it's your only group, whatcha gonna do?

You have my sympathy, that sounds like an unpleasant situation, I hope it improves.

Wasn't posting for sympathy, simply answering the question about how my visual impairment effects my gameplay.
Its not gonna get better terminal illnesses have one direction to them. I'm just trying to have as much fun with the hobby as I can.
If that means I can't enter even the local tournaments, then so be it.

We can never know what another person has to go through to get to the other side of the ale for a game. Let them enjoy the hobby as best they can. If they can't paint, so be it, play them or not, but don't complain unless you're willing to get responses.

 Tvayumat wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Skitarii in the KT box were red, but the Neophytes were still grey, so no

They're actually a non-standard blue grey, not the usual base grey.

It'd still contribute to the grey tide on the table though

 stonehorse wrote:

 IronBrand wrote:

It's what the hobby is to you. I'm sure most players want nice painted models. But different people have different priorities and approach the game from different perspectives. Some people will see it as a strategy game, some as basically a board game, some just like the lore and the game is secondary to them, others are into every aspect of the hobby.

You don't really get to enjoy how other people enjoy their hobbies, just like they don't get to tell you how to enjoy yours. Sure I won't like the look of my opponent's army if it's just sprayed hot pink with a $1 rattlecan of enamel paint. But I'm not going to tell them they can't do what they want with their dudes.

I honestly think I am coming from this from a different perspective, which is what is causing the confusion.

It isn't about what I think the hobby is, or what the hobby is to me, but rather what the hobby is. First we need to discombobulate the notion that GW are a hobby. The hobby is Miniature Wargaming, GW are the most successful company within this hobby. The lore they have created for the franchise is just that, a way to build upon their brand and build brand recognition. I approach GW's products like I approach any Miniature Wargame, which to those who are only familiar with GW's products can cause a few interesting outcomes

Miniature Wargaming is defined by the use of painted miniatures, other wise it would be Wargaming with counters/blocks/tokens etc. If the painted miniatures were not an integral part why not just use print outs of the models and stick them on bases?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_wargaming

Yes you are coming at it from a different perspective. I'm not confused, it is about what you think the hobby is. Your perspective on what miniature wargaming is. From what you've stated if people don't approach the hobby the same way as you they're disrespecting both you and the hobby itself. Throwing around the term "miniature wargaming" doesn't invalidate other people's approach to the game. X-Wing models all come pre-assembled and painted, it's still miniature wargaming.

Miniature wargaming is defined by the use of miniatures. Whether they're painted or based or anything else is up to their owner not their opponent. You are of course free to refuse any game for any reason outside of a tournament. But unless the reason for not playing someone over how their models are painted/unpainted is it'd be difficult to keep track of which models belong to who or what each model represents the majority of people will side with your opponent.

I dislike the colored plastics, I find it harder to make out the details on colored plastic. I spend a lot of time cleaning molds lines off my models as I assemble them and the grey plastic makes it much easier to see blemishes and marks while I'm working on them. Needing to prime a model prior to building it would be nightmarish, or trying to go back and clean up a built and primed model can be tricky as parts could get in the way.

I'm not a fan of the brightly colored plastics and if that becomes a thing it'll probably be a negative thing for me and I'll buy less stuff or buy from other companies. I don't mind working on more drab colors like tan or olive green that Tamiya uses for military kits but the bright yellows and cherry reds etc don't have much contrast to them. Additionally I think a table of brightly colored plastics is just going to look like a mess of childs toys and won't really be any better than looking at grey minis where at least grey plastic serves a purpose with the hobby side.