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 Horst wrote:

fithos wrote:
Also AM tanks that can literally overwatch better than they can shoot in the shooting phase.

No they can't. It makes overwatch strong, but not THAT strong. You can't double-fire your turret, and even with defensive gunners you're still hitting on a 5+. Yes, you re-roll misses, but it's not equal to hitting on a 3+ like a tank commander normally would anyway.

Mordian tanks with defensive gunners hit on a 4+ rerolling misses. That's better than they shoot in the shooting phase.

fithos wrote:
Mordian tanks with defensive gunners hit on a 4+ rerolling misses. That's better than they shoot in the shooting phase.

Yeah but you are using a doctrine, a stratagem and a warlord trait to achieve it. It isn't as if you get it for nothing. Mordian is a very niche regiment too, you lose some powerful bonuses to take it. You also can't fire your turret twice, so less fire power.

Let's be honest. Which of these stratagems/specialist detachments is breaking the game thus far? How are any of these different from strong stratagem combos which already exist? Short answer; they're not.

The "oh no, Mordian tanks over-watching on 4+ with re-rolls!" thing is a perfect example. So, a regimental trait, combined with a specialist detachment payment, combined with a stratagem payment gives one tank...good overwatch shooting for one phase of a game? I don't see how this is anything worth throwing a fit over. Even thrown on a superheavy, that's several CP a turn to vaguely protect one tank. How is that game ruining? Why so much exaggeration and nonsense?

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be honest. Which of these stratagems/specialist detachments is breaking the game thus far? How are any of these different from strong stratagem combos which already exist?

I can see the Wrath detachment being maybe a bit too powerful. A basilisk, with the extra shot stratagem, the aerial spotter stratagem, the warlord trait and the relic, with catachan doctrine. Add to that any other bonuses you fancy, and you have a double shooting buff basilisk every turn. Sure, it is 4cp a turn + 2-3 setup cp, but Guard can drop that sort of cp for the first few turns and be fine. Then you get the suppression stratagem for slowing stuff down and it may be getting a bit much. I would definitely say it is the best of the 5 Guard formations.

As an Age of Sigmar player I am accustomed to having formations/battalions. None of them really break the game and if they do they get increased cost to them to nerf them. Take for example Gore Pilgrim in Blades of Khorne. It was a must-pick due to the force-multiplier. Now they've made the cost that much higher that I have to wonder if I should use it or buy a 10 man unit of Blood Warriors or nearly 30 bodies of Blood Reavers instead. I actually have to think of trade-offs.

There is nothing wrong with formations as long as they are costed appropriately and don't go into ridiculous territory like the old Demi-Company where you got endless amount of free stuff.

TL;DR: 7th edition 40k made me hate formations, Age of Sigmar made me like them again. There can be balance to the force.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Let's be honest. Which of these stratagems/specialist detachments is breaking the game thus far? How are any of these different from strong stratagem combos which already exist?

I can see the Wrath detachment being maybe a bit too powerful. A basilisk, with the extra shot stratagem, the aerial spotter stratagem, the warlord trait and the relic, with catachan doctrine. Add to that any other bonuses you fancy, and you have a double shooting buff basilisk every turn. Sure, it is 4cp a turn + 2-3 setup cp, but Guard can drop that sort of cp for the first few turns and be fine. Then you get the suppression stratagem for slowing stuff down and it may be getting a bit much. I would definitely say it is the best of the 5 Guard formations.

Besides you don't need CP to last more than 2, 3 turns at most. Then 8th ed game is decided anyway and it's just mopping up for scale of game. IG can get 2-3 turns worth of CP easily.

What this does do though is make IG allies even more essential. Players are asking for soup reined in, GW keeps pouring incentives to soup up!