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 Pudis wrote:
I would like to see more stuff about the Marines Malevolent. I know that might seem like a poor choice, but I am geniunely interested in how they became the civilian shelling and hate-filled figures they were when the Salamanders met them on Armageddon. I doubt any book can provide ample validation for their actions, but I nevertheless want to know what made them believe their ways are right.

Could be a lot of fun to be honest, moustache twirling ultraviolent bad guy loyalists instead of the bleeding hearts which are held up as representative of these crazed warrior cults.


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Iracundus wrote:
Who said they had to be Guard novels?

The small team that fights to turn the tide can be the Tau. The Tau fight bravely, intelligently, to achieve their objectives and succeed....only for it to not matter because the Imperium has so many forces that even a seemingly decisive tactical defeat on the local level is no more than the equivalent of a minor train delay. In 40K, humanity are the faceless numberless horde for the vast majority of other races.

And before anyone tries to say only human POV novels are allowed, the recent explosion in the number of Eldar novels and short stories says otherwise.

Humans cannot be faceless hordes in a story written by humans. Not a good one anyway.

Local numerical superiority is a strategy that needs to be countered- if the Tau cannot cope with it they aren't fighting 'bravely, intelligently, to achieve their objectives and succeed'. Its a boring strategy, and the ways to overcome it are usually boring- usually involving a WMD or catastrophic event of some sort. The Cain novel where they is an example of how to do it right- the road to deploying the catastrophic event was fraught with danger and had very little chance to succeed.

When the humans do suicidal doomed actions- its usually to achieve some goal that may not bring local territorial victory, but needs to happen for the survival of the species or the greater war effort. Last Chancer's kill team was an example- they weren't meant to win the war or even come back- just deny intel to the enemy and deal imperial justice. The Tau are actively expanding their territory and they don't/can't steal tech. The Tau commander showing up with insufficient troops to take an imperial hive world (where just the civilian gang leaders armed with plasmapistols/lascannons outnumber the firewarriors ) is a comedy of errors, maybe due to bad intel/sublight space travel lag. Might be a fun read but it would be hard to keep any kind of suspense or tension.

 Pudis wrote:
I would like to see more stuff about the Marines Malevolent. I know that might seem like a poor choice, but I am geniunely interested in how they became the civilian shelling and hate-filled figures they were when the Salamanders met them on Armageddon. I doubt any book can provide ample validation for their actions, but I nevertheless want to know what made them believe their ways are right.

The Marines Malevolent are how I see most Marines being rather than the noblebright versions that seem to attract players (since most players like being the hero, or the rebel against the Imperium's way of doing things).

The logic of the Marines Malevolent is simple and has a logic to it:

The enemy is destroyed.
The objective is secured and in good shape.
Civilians are the most expendable of the expendable since they won't even fight for themselves, and the Imperium has plenty more of them to man the factories so their loss is of no consequence.
Sentimentality leads to mission failure and the deaths of everyone.

Obviously that can be a slippery slope to the thinking of CSM. The danger would be the Marines Malevolent doing their own private empire building because they see themselves as clearly more valuable than normal humans, and therefore worthy of being the new ruling class.

Another line which can also encapsulate the Marines Malevolent:

"Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius."


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 =Angel= wrote:
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Iracundus wrote:
Who said they had to be Guard novels?

The small team that fights to turn the tide can be the Tau. The Tau fight bravely, intelligently, to achieve their objectives and succeed....only for it to not matter because the Imperium has so many forces that even a seemingly decisive tactical defeat on the local level is no more than the equivalent of a minor train delay. In 40K, humanity are the faceless numberless horde for the vast majority of other races.

And before anyone tries to say only human POV novels are allowed, the recent explosion in the number of Eldar novels and short stories says otherwise.

Humans cannot be faceless hordes in a story written by humans. Not a good one anyway.

The xenos novels show otherwise. Humans are already faceless hordes in all the Imperium vs. Chaos cultists so they definitely can be faceless hordes in a xenos novel.

I'd like to see more non-"famous" chapters show up for the Space Marines. I remember a book where the Mortifactors joined up with some Ultramarines and there was some culture shock. I feel like the Primogenitor Chapters plus a couple show up everywhere and the rest of the successive founding chapters are little more than plot armor for them. Oh no, a battle barge just blew up in the fleet enga... oh never mind, it was some chapter I've never heard of. I'm not even sure they told me the name of the chapter.

More of the non-standard three/four would also be nice. More sons of Dorn, and Khan. Setting up a sibling rivalry between the Imperial Fists and the White Scars based around their different approaches would be more entertaining than another war council between Calgar/Dante/Azrael/Grimnar/Proxies-ThereOf.

I frequently like the campaign book lore as it gets so many of the races all converging at once in the same place. I'd love to see more of that ASSUMING they can get more creative and less formulaic with the macguffin. Its long past time to flip the script. Why can't the Imperium be invading an Ork World they took over centuries ago because there's a hidden Sanctum, or Forge complex etc on it, they need to liberate, and Chaos is tracking them? Why not really flip the script and have the Imperium take advantage of Chaos invading an Ork World because of a Forge complex lost or meant to be taken back but forgotten about in the 30K's, and the Imperium follows THEM to that world for a change trying to snatch the world out from under both of them - only the data is corrupted and it's NOT a Forge complex, but instead a Necron Tomb people misunderstood 10,000 years ago?

 =Angel= wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

that'd be an intreasting story in and of itself. a story where a Tau Commander realizes the sheer scope of the adversary. a story where a Tau commander does everything right, outsmarts the opponent and every turn, but is still being ground into dust on account of the sheer SIZE of the Imperial military machine.

Respectfully No.

The worst stories are where Brother Captain Clarkent stumbles into an enemy ambush, gets shot to bits but stumbles through because his power armour holds (though the warning runes are flashing). Similarly where the Imperial Guard ship in more men to throw at an objective until they get it. 'Fighting harder' or having insurmountable armour/numbers is not a good story. It doesn't tell you anything about the men in the struggle, just numbers and ultraviolence and mounds of corpses. There's a reason the most popular guard novels are the Ghost series- where among the backdrop of two innumerable armies, a small force of men do commando raids to turn the tide and uncover the nature of their foes.

Usually the Tyranids fill the faceless, insurmountable numbers role, and only to show the lengths the Imperium will go to(depths it will sink to) to win.

I'll grant you that your scenario would be interesting given Imperial hostages to give exposition/context to the tau or attempts for the Tau to negotiate quarter, only to discover the zeal and resolve of the Imperial men. Tau are the 'reasonable man' in the story and cannot understand why the humans hate them (for the sin of being xenos)

right my point is this would be a story told from the Tau prespective. there's no need to have guard charactrs. I'm thinking a short story mind you, not a novel.

BrianDavion wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

that'd be an intreasting story in and of itself. a story where a Tau Commander realizes the sheer scope of the adversary. a story where a Tau commander does everything right, outsmarts the opponent and every turn, but is still being ground into dust on account of the sheer SIZE of the Imperial military machine.

...

I'll grant you that your scenario would be interesting given Imperial hostages to give exposition/context to the tau or attempts for the Tau to negotiate quarter, only to discover the zeal and resolve of the Imperial men. Tau are the 'reasonable man' in the story and cannot understand why the humans hate them (for the sin of being xenos)

right my point is this would be a story told from the Tau prespective. there's no need to have guard charactrs. I'm thinking a short story mind you, not a novel.

Every time you include an antagonist force that has goals beyond killing and can communicate and negotiate them, and they never articulate anything beyond shooting/chopping at the protagonists, you could have substituted tyranids or oldcrons. Even Orks are shown to have motivations in a Soul drinkers novel that includes 2 space marine chapters and plenty of PDF/Government intrigue.

Tau have short natural lives (though longer than the average IG on active duty). They spent a few years in firewarrior training, maybe in a Tau planet, maybe in a multiracial society that included humans. Everything they know about the human Imperium has come from speculation and human traitors on the very periphery of Imperial space. They got put in stasis and are sent to battle the Imperium.

At some point they must be curious about why the Imperium are fighting them. At some point they will try to talk to a wounded enemy soldier, or captured prisoner or see a broadcast by the enemy. They appear more civilised than your kroot allies. If they never talk you never get to showcase the difference between the two cultures.

 Pacific wrote:
A full account of Horus' fall.

Thought it was given much too short a thrift in the original Heresy trilogy, and falling back on 'a Wizard did it' (or magic sword at least) was an extremely light touch on a piece of lore which actually defines not only the Heresy but also the whole 40k universe. And we've been left with something that wasn't really believable, and underwhelms the rest of the series.

Would love to have seen ADB give it a go.

I’m assuming you are just taking what happens in the opening 3 volumes as all the detail? There’s bits of extra information spread throughout the series but more so towards the end in Slaves to Darkness, Wolfsbane, Heralds.

I was pretty happy with it and I don’t think they could do much more. Someone who has s effectively third in command of the Imperium facing being made obsolete and deferring authority to a civilian administration that’s nit done any of the dying to reclaim the galaxy was/is a decent start to his fall. The beginning is down before he is injured , that’s just to push him firmly over the edge of no return.after that it’s steps to damnation which are steered by Erebus and then it spirals. Titandeath has a good example of how mortals are deceived into aiding with chaos without realising the full horror until it’s too late.

Going back to the original question, I’d love Legion of the Damned to be expanded on, there’s no definitive answer and GW steered it away from Firehawks with the WD codex assassins, Madter of mankind doesn’t clearly link to them either and we know that souls that release in the Ernest probably get stuck in it.

Some in-universe lore books.

Like something in the style of a tech Adepts study into Xenos life forms, perhaps on orks. Where its presented as a bunch of experiments, results and findings, smattered with a whole bunch of propaganda and religious misunderstandings. And maybe a blood spattered last page with notes from the inquisitor that found the remains of the tech adept...
Or even a history book written by an imperial adept, on how they view ancient history - so many misunderstandings about todays world, presented in a somewhat satirical style.

A book that you might actually think exists in the 40K universe, of course it would probably have to be mostly from an Imperial viewpoint, so it would be totally skewed by their ideology.

A “ History Of” Book would be golden , though you’d really need it to be from the perspective of a high ranking adept having created it then it being seized and annotated by agents of the Inquisition with “corrective notes”.

The Keeler image short story was interesting because of the value attached to a simple image from imperial history, and the necessity to seize or destroy it.

 Kcalehc wrote:
Some in-universe lore books.

Like something in the style of a tech Adepts study into Xenos life forms, perhaps on orks. Where its presented as a bunch of experiments, results and findings, smattered with a whole bunch of propaganda and religious misunderstandings. And maybe a blood spattered last page with notes from the inquisitor that found the remains of the tech adept...

It's been done. It's called Xenology. It also showed that GW/BL have no writers that can use biological terminology.

I'd like to see more lore on the Alpha legion. kill the rediculas memes with facts.. please

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd like to see more lore on the Alpha legion. kill the rediculas memes with facts.. please

But then gw would lose the magic Wand to solve loretelling problems.

Personally i'd like to see more lore about traitor guardsmen / paramilitary forces.

But i am biased.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd like to see more lore on the Alpha legion. kill the rediculas memes with facts.. please

Oh the memes will never die.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd like to see more lore on the Alpha legion. kill the rediculas memes with facts.. please

Oh the memes will never die.

I am alpharius? You are alpharius, He is Omegon but also Alpharius.
We she it are alphariusses.

Could be a lot of fun to be honest, moustache twirling ultraviolent bad guy loyalists instead of the bleeding hearts which are held up as representative of these crazed warrior cults.

The Iron Hands novels are more what you are looking for as as the Space Sharks. They are both uncompromising to say the least

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd like to see more lore on the Alpha legion. kill the rediculas memes with facts.. please

Oh the memes will never die.

true even when GW releases new lore that clarifies something that eistablishes a old meme as objectively false people still grasp it close