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Primarchs gearing up for return:

If they did bring back Ferrus, I suspect it would be as part of a revamp and re-release of the Legion of the Damned, as per master of mankind cameo, rather than as the iron hand primarch per se.

locarno24 wrote:
If they did bring back Ferrus, I suspect it would be as part of a revamp and re-release of the Legion of the Damned, as per master of mankind cameo, rather than as the iron hand primarch per se.

This would track considering that Iron Hands never seem to get the special characters or chapter masters they have been asking for; their primarch returns but he's in charge of a whole different legion.

Does it even have to be one of the dead ones? I was kinda hoping Erda would show up with 20 of her daughters.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Lets be clear: What would GW make the most money off of? Sanduinius would be the sexiest model in years, cost a ton, and would cause the Blood fans to go ape.

Russ would be cool, if he came out like, a lupegarue. Or a wierd 40k version of Marchosias, the creator of Werewolves.
Vulkan could come back as the token black power ranger, but then sales would likely suffer. Nope, Sang would make the most money, hands down.

I’m curious why you think Vulkan would lose money. Also, why you have so much faith in them sculpting Sanguinius. His forge world 30k sculpt is average at best so it’s not like it’s a slam dunk. Plus how stupid would it be to just undo one of the most important deaths in the setting?

Ferrus’ remains crammed into a telemonn sized dreadnought filled with archaeotech would be awesome imo

The Khan is now in the lead for runner up. I see a dust cloud on the horizon.

I would like to see, if Russ returned, him having two models. One primarch and one uberwerewolf.

Like he hulks out during the battle and has different stats depending on his form.

 Hellebore wrote:
I would like to see, if Russ returned, him having two models. One primarch and one uberwerewolf.

Like he hulks out during the battle and has different stats depending on his form.

Isn't that essentially a furry Orikan the Diviner?

 Asmodai wrote:
I'm guessing Russ - but not for awhile. If EC and Fulgrim come out late in 10th, then I wouldn't expect Russ to arrive till the end 11th - probably early to mid 2029.

I think its a loyalist first. Chaos have been one up ever since they started returning -


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’d expect Russ, to be honest.

I mean of the original Legionnes, you have the Main Four in Ultras, Blangels, Dangels and Woofs.

Sanguinius is still suffering a rather nasty case of deth, and Russ is the last one MIA.

They'll do Russ first just to buy more time/stall on doing Sanguinius. My money is still on some sort of Black Rage coalescence thing after the Seige of Ball spontaneously generating a new Sanguinius from something - Sanguinor, chosen son, etc.

I want a Ferrus Manus clone that secretly pulls some massive victory off as the hidden commander and clears and forges a new safe passage through the Great Rift… keep him unrevealed for a few books and an entire edition… some massive Keys of Hel pay off into the 40K arc. Manus reborn with old memories but modest psyker powers too… something like that.

Or if you really want to twist things… FM clone with Shadrak’s memories.

 Lobukia wrote:
I want a Ferrus Manus clone that secretly pulls some massive victory off as the hidden commander and clears and forges a new safe passage through the Great Rift… keep him unrevealed for a few books and an entire edition… some massive Keys of Hel pay off into the 40K arc. Manus reborn with old memories but modest psyker powers too… something like that.

Or if you really want to twist things… FM clone with Shadrak’s memories.

And it creates a civil war within the Iron Hands and their successors because 1. It's not really Ferrus, and 2.) Ferrus didn't go off the deep end with cybernetics, so the clone might think it's also weird.

All I know is Russ's return should be like Thor's arrival in Wakanda in Avengers: Infinity War. We hear a "howl" and then a spear flying and killing a big bad guy.

There's no doubt Russ is the people's choice. But supporters of the Khan continue to represent propelling him into a 3 point lead for 2nd place ladies and gentlemen, but will he maintain it?

Why argue about "returning" primarchs, when Cawl could literally "hey Presto!" one out of thin air in keeping with the wonkyness of the current lore.

What faction would you most like to see a new TRIMARCH for? I would love it if Cawl made a new Horus. Borus. And he basically saves the floundering, poorly led, failing, indomitus crusade.

Or one of the emperor's naturally conceived sons or daughters could show up. I mean why did he really need to create primarchs in the first place if he was such a badass?

Does the Emperor have naturally conceived children? I kinda just assumed he was as sexless as Narcissus.

He does sound like a Narcissist.

Depends on what source material you view as still being canon.

In the days of Rogue Trader (and the Realms of Chaos books), yes, he did.

Whether they are still canon today is another matter entirely.

Were they mortals or perpetuals?

 Adeptekon wrote:
Were they mortals or perpetuals?

The concept of a perpetual was created by Dan Abnett in the Horus Heresy novels. Before that, immortal, regenerating from ash humans didn't exist. And it's one of Dan Abnett's lore insertions I can't stand.

However, the emperor's natural born children, the Sensei, were 'highlander immortal', as in they didn't die of old age or disease, but could still be mortally wounded. They were avowed enemies of chaos and their psychic relationship with the warp was a positive good vibes hippy type thing.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why argue about "returning" primarchs, when Cawl could literally "hey Presto!" one out of thin air in keeping with the wonkyness of the current lore.

What faction would you most like to see a new TRIMARCH for? I would love it if Cawl made a new Horus. Borus. And he basically saves the floundering, poorly led, failing, indomitus crusade.

So could Fabius honestly. Though a chaos unit of corrupted, imperfect primachs as a super heavy infantry unit would be interesting. Giving marines in range a specific morale debuff cause for them it would be horrifying.

 Adeptekon wrote:
Or one of the emperor's naturally conceived sons or daughters could show up. I mean why did he really need to create primarchs in the first place if he was such a badass?

Because they were tools. A collection of perfect generals to lead Humanity to his Vision of the Future. When you want a tool, you want a perfect one rather than hope some random one will do the job.

Chaos stole his perfect tools, so he had fall back on the much less perfect tool of the Astartes to get the Great Crusade rolling. When he started finding his perfect tools, they were a not as perfect as hoped due to Third-Party manufacturing, aka raised by less perfect parents/teachers than himself. Two had to be tossed onto the dust bin early, then half rest of the damn things broke during use. Even his favorite tool blew up in his face and crippled him.

Breton wrote:

I think its a loyalist first. Chaos have been one up ever since they started returning -

This is by design. It is far easier to write in (because in the actual background the Daemon Primarchs are still sort of around, with Angron in particular being pretty active well before he got a model) and it preserves the illusion that the Imperium is on the brink of disaster if the enemy has more of the Emperor's demigod sons arrayed against them than they have with them.

Hellebore wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Were they mortals or perpetuals?

The concept of a perpetual was created by Dan Abnett in the Horus Heresy novels. Before that, immortal, regenerating from ash humans didn't exist. And it's one of Dan Abnett's lore insertions I can't stand.

However, the emperor's natural born children, the Sensei, were 'highlander immortal', as in they didn't die of old age or disease, but could still be mortally wounded. They were avowed enemies of chaos and their psychic relationship with the warp was a positive good vibes hippy type thing.

They sound perfect. All he had to do was find them.

alextroy wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Or one of the emperor's naturally conceived sons or daughters could show up. I mean why did he really need to create primarchs in the first place if he was such a badass?

Because they were tools. A collection of perfect generals to lead Humanity to his Vision of the Future. When you want a tool, you want a perfect one rather than hope some random one will do the job.

Chaos stole his perfect tools, so he had fall back on the much less perfect tool of the Astartes to get the Great Crusade rolling. When he started finding his perfect tools, they were a not as perfect as hoped due to Third-Party manufacturing, aka raised by less perfect parents/teachers than himself. Two had to be tossed onto the dust bin early, then half rest of the damn things broke during use. Even his favorite tool blew up in his face and crippled him.

See above, they were perfect, so he wasted time building primarchs and then running around looking for them when he could have just went looking for his real children.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why argue about "returning" primarchs, when Cawl could literally "hey Presto!" one out of thin air in keeping with the wonkyness of the current lore.

What faction would you most like to see a new TRIMARCH for? I would love it if Cawl made a new Horus. Borus. And he basically saves the floundering, poorly led, failing, indomitus crusade.

You think they don't have people working on that story? As much as they like to ripoff other genres you think they aren't doing an Emperor Reborn, or a cloned Luke Skywalker story line?


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 Void__Dragon wrote:

Breton wrote:

I think its a loyalist first. Chaos have been one up ever since they started returning -

This is by design. It is far easier to write in (because in the actual background the Daemon Primarchs are still sort of around, with Angron in particular being pretty active well before he got a model) and it preserves the illusion that the Imperium is on the brink of disaster if the enemy has more of the Emperor's demigod sons arrayed against them than they have with them.

Oh sure, there will always be more or equal Chaos primarchs, but if the ratio gets too far off suspension of disbelief starts to falter. I mean sure we're talking about a cyberpunk fantasy world already - but how does 1 Primarch beat 4 Primarchs? Would the Imperium have already foundered if they all worked together? Heck if Mortarion and Magnus alone had showed up in the same place at the same time, Guilliman would have lost. With the way the plot armor etc. is weighted - Guilliman's troops would have won, until the two Daemon Primarchs showed up personally - and then Guilliman has no counter to that. They can hand wave a stalemate between a 1v1 Primarch battle but not a 1v2

Fortunately, GW has well established the fact that Chaos works together horribly. They love nothing less than ruining each others plans instead of delivering a coup de grace. If two Daemon Primarchs got in a fight with Guilliman, they would beat him down and then get into a major fight over who actually gets to kill him. They would become so focused on beating each other, they wouldn't notice the party of Astartes dragging the still alive Guilliman from the battlefield.

 alextroy wrote:
Fortunately, GW has well established the fact that Chaos works together horribly. They love nothing less than ruining each others plans instead of delivering a coup de grace. If two Daemon Primarchs got in a fight with Guilliman, they would beat him down and then get into a major fight over who actually gets to kill him. They would become so focused on beating each other, they wouldn't notice the party of Astartes dragging the still alive Guilliman from the battlefield.

They'd still be dragging him off the battlefield meaning the field belongs to Chaos. Plus Guilliman can't be in two places at once. So even if the Chaos Primarchs just do the same thing in different places, the Imperium still loses somewhere. Calgar vs Morty was a delaying action until Guilliman could be in the second place post Indomitus.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

I included the currently dead ones anyway because let's face it, if they want them to return a way will be found...

Unfortunately yes, they would find some absurd explanation to do this.

That is true and horrid at the same time as death doesn´t mean anything as a consequence. In addition Primarchs are mythical creatures from days gone by. Even bringing a single one back was an unforgiving mistake. If you peel away any mysteries and secrets a setting can offer it cheapens the experience as a whole. Let the Primarchs enjoy their retirement in one way or another.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
Ferrus’ remains crammed into a telemonn sized dreadnought filled with archaeotech would be awesome imo

Ferrus´ return would require a healthy amount of lore abuse on the level of Cawl creating a legion of Primaris marines without nobody ever noticing that. Okay, here is my take as practically anything goes when Corporate wants to make a quick buck:

Iron Hands are cyborgs, right? So therefore we lend a tech which is often available in Cyberpunk settings: A Braintape. Once a person´s brain pattern has been copied it can be implanted into a clone´s body and cloning is second nature to the folks of 40K anyway so it won´t be an issue. Who invented the Braintape tech in the first place? Well, let it stay in the family: It was a relative of Cawl of course (who else?!) serving in the Iron Hands legion back in the day as a genius Apothecary AND Iron Father.

When has the Braintape of Ferrus been acquired? Sometime before the Horus Heresy took place but the tape itself and the technology has been locked away and forgotten in one of Medusa´s vaults guarded by one of the IH clans responsible for protecting their archeotech.

Here's what I got they could just change the lore little to read:

In the commotion and trusty Iron Hand brother scooped up Ferris's head like a loose ball for the touchdown before Chaos could hem them in.

Being one of the few survivors this trusty hand told only a hand full (no pun) of his bros and kept it a secret. When their bros started self-mutilating over the loss of dad, they said screw that! (no pun) and left the chapter while biding their time preserving his head when everyone else was claiming to have a piece of him.

They just needed the right connections with some powerful Technomancy to build him back better. Ferris awakens to hear the news about how his chapter went nuts and bolts over their humanity and he vows to restore faith in the flesh and purge their insanity.

Thus begins the return of Ferrus Manus and the Civil War of the Iron Hands successors.