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EDIT 17/4/17: The thought of 40K Skaven hasn't left my mind. Adding a new faction is a difficult endeavour, so I've rephrased the question of the Skaven being only a fluff faction.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/723653.page


Almost every WHFB faction has a 40k counterpart. The Tyranids were an original faction but they've grown to resemble the Lizardmen slightly.

3 big factions remain: The Beastmen, Vampire Counts and Skaven. I think the Skaven are the best choice to be re-introduced into WH40K.


-Beastmen are reminiscent of mutated Chaos men, Daemons and Orks (who are pretty beastly themselves). It's difficult to establish their identity as a unique faction in 40k. You could say that the possessed marines partially fill up the role of the Beastmen as well.

-For Vampire Counts, it's a big no-no. We don't need two undead factions. Plus, shows like Twilight and the Vampire Diaries have made vampires beyond lame. There's now no way for the vampire to return to games.

-The Skaven ratmen are an interesting faction. GW originally tried to introduce them as the Jawa-like Hrud, before the Hrud were retconned into some slimy buggers.
Thinking about it, I realised that the Skaven fit into the 40k setting very nicely. Conniving rat xenos in a war-torn dystopia. We can still call them Skaven, they're the only faction who don't require a name change.

The Orcs became Orks; "Tomb Kings" refers to the undead kings themselves, with the removal of the Vampire Counts we were left with only one undead faction. Yet the undead are human skeletons, GW had to turn them into xenos. Then they weren't really undead so GW invented the name to "Necrons", which means "dead/death" in Greek anyway.

Back to the Skaven. They could be introduced to the setting as a minor faction. Perhaps they could take over the Stryxian role. Or be Chaos worshippers like the Laer. In "futurising" the Undead, GW covered them in black metal and turned them into the robotic Necrons. I'm wondering about how best to "futurise" the Skaven.
Any suggestions? Maybe we could change the appearance of their fur, or give them some unique clothing,

Afaik, Skaven are Hrud in 40k.

Either way, you don't need the same factions.

Or we could just not force another faction in.

I don't play WFB and I can think of these:
? = GK
? = SW
Empire = AM?
? = MT
? = Inquisition
Bretonnia = ?
Skaven = Hrud
Dwarves = Squats
Vampire Counts = Blood Angels?
Ogre Kingdoms = ?
? = Imperial Knights

WFB /= 40k
"Does not compute"

However, I've seen some pretty cool fan codexes and counts as armies out of skaven and dwarves. Go for it!!!!!

Some parts of Space Wolves remind me of dwarves. Rune priests and Lone Wolves.

Squats were Dwarves.

Skaven are not Hrud.

Hrud = Xenos who hate Chaos.
Skaven = abhumans (half-man, half-rat; quite close to beastmen) closely related with Chaos.

The Skaven (rat-folk) would probably be Xenos, not abhumans. They're too-far-gone to be even remotely human, and their humanish-features don't mean they're descended from humans. Eldar, after all, are not an abhuman species, and yet look very similar to humans.

They would be, like, some Xenos species that Humanity first contacted in, like, M28 that have stowed away on Human ships in the Void ever since, and are found burrowing into any world that Humanity has ever set foot on.

I do wonder what happened to Skaven however. They were a massive force back in the past. Maybe their unability to evolve was their ultimate downfall in the end?

They never really made the jump from WHFB to WH40k is what happened.

 da001 wrote:
Skaven are not Hrud.

Hrud = Xenos who hate Chaos.
Skaven = abhumans (half-man, half-rat; quite close to beastmen) closely related with Chaos.

You see, GW once featured a "Nocturnal Warrior of Hrud". It resembled a Jawa-like Skaven. But the Hrud were never mentioned again.

Later in the book Xenology, instead of sewer rats, the Hrud became sewer swamp thingies with an entropic field. Instead of worshipping chaos, they worshipped Qah, an Old One.


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 Psienesis wrote:
The Skaven (rat-folk) would probably be Xenos, not abhumans. They're too-far-gone to be even remotely human, and their humanish-features don't mean they're descended from humans. Eldar, after all, are not an abhuman species, and yet look very similar to humans.

They would be, like, some Xenos species that Humanity first contacted in, like, M28 that have stowed away on Human ships in the Void ever since, and are found burrowing into any world that Humanity has ever set foot on.

The Skaven will definitely be classified as Xenos, Now I'm just thinking of a way to "futurise" their appearance. The same way the Undead were futurised into Necrons.


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On a side note, Araek Etogaur of the Blood Pact somewhat fulfils the role of a beastman in 40k.

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 da001 wrote:
Skaven are not Hrud.

Hrud = Xenos who hate Chaos.
Skaven = abhumans (half-man, half-rat; quite close to beastmen) closely related with Chaos.

You see, GW once featured a "Nocturnal Warrior of Hrud". It resembled a Jawa-like Skaven. But the Hrud were never mentioned again.

Later in the book Xenology, instead of sewer rats, the Hrud became sewer swamp thingies with an entropic field. Instead of worshipping chaos, they worshipped Qah, an Old One.

I know, I have my own copy of Xenology. I am just pointing out the 'Skaven are not Hrud and Hrud are not Skaven' thing.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Skaven (rat-folk) would probably be Xenos, not abhumans. They're too-far-gone to be even remotely human, and their humanish-features don't mean they're descended from humans. Eldar, after all, are not an abhuman species, and yet look very similar to humans.

They would be, like, some Xenos species that Humanity first contacted in, like, M28 that have stowed away on Human ships in the Void ever since, and are found burrowing into any world that Humanity has ever set foot on.

The Skaven will definitely be classified as Xenos, Now I'm just thinking of a way to "futurise" their appearance. The same way the Undead were futurised into Necrons.


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On a side note, Araek Etogaur of the Blood Pact somewhat fulfils the role of a beastman in 40k.

There are beastmen in 40k. They got rules at some point, and they are referred in the Rulebook, together with Squats and other abhumans.

 da001 wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 da001 wrote:
Skaven are not Hrud.

Hrud = Xenos who hate Chaos.
Skaven = abhumans (half-man, half-rat; quite close to beastmen) closely related with Chaos.

You see, GW once featured a "Nocturnal Warrior of Hrud". It resembled a Jawa-like Skaven. But the Hrud were never mentioned again.

Later in the book Xenology, instead of sewer rats, the Hrud became sewer swamp thingies with an entropic field. Instead of worshipping chaos, they worshipped Qah, an Old One.

I know, I have my own copy of Xenology. I am just pointing out the 'Skaven are not Hrud and Hrud are not Skaven' thing.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Skaven (rat-folk) would probably be Xenos, not abhumans. They're too-far-gone to be even remotely human, and their humanish-features don't mean they're descended from humans. Eldar, after all, are not an abhuman species, and yet look very similar to humans.

They would be, like, some Xenos species that Humanity first contacted in, like, M28 that have stowed away on Human ships in the Void ever since, and are found burrowing into any world that Humanity has ever set foot on.

The Skaven will definitely be classified as Xenos, Now I'm just thinking of a way to "futurise" their appearance. The same way the Undead were futurised into Necrons.


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On a side note, Araek Etogaur of the Blood Pact somewhat fulfils the role of a beastman in 40k.

There are beastmen in 40k. They got rules at some point, and they are referred in the Rulebook, together with Squats and other abhumans.

Well I know that too. Although the beastmen are no longer mentioned, others like Etogaur have taken their place.


Didn't realise that you were trying to remind the less well read forum users that the Hrud are no longer 40k Skaven.

Anyway, any ideas on how to futurise the Skaven?

the Vampire Diaries have made vampires beyond lame

Disagree strongly with this....one of my fav shows....... but on main topic

Here's a fun diea the"Watchers in the Dark" - the Dark Angels are just pawns of the Skaven nah we all know they are really Ratlings.....

Is there any reason why they can;t just be Skaven - one of their horribly dangerous warp magic experiments goes wrong and a Warren ends up in the 40k Universe - we know Deamons exist in both so its possible...... then they expand and grow stronger

Beastmen are abhumans and already in the fluff in both the Imperium and on other independant and Chaos dominated worlds............Theya re in 6th ed rulebook - not sure about 7th as not bought it.

Kroot remind me of skaven. That's the closest I can think. Why futurize them and change them. Just add guns and metal plates. Aka storm vermin with auto guns or something.

Ive had a pet project for a while now about turning Skaven Plague Monks into either Counts-as Zombies or Plague Bearers for some time now... Still could be legit to use as both, I'd only have to clarify before games.

 Psienesis wrote:
They never really made the jump from WHFB to WH40k is what happened.

If you have the Compendium book, look at page 153 under the Ratling poison section. You'll see Ratlings being able to take Rodotoxin which affects the Skaven race.
Incidentially Orthotoxin affects Humans and Abhumans (including Ogryns, Ratlings and Beastmen), so these are seperate making the Skaven not just abhumans.
Of course Ratlings could also take Haemotoxin which affects Vampires, which I doubt was used much either. :-)



But Skavens are mentioned in proper 40k rules, though.

Wasn't there a vampiric Xeno race that lived in the ghoul stars?

Lexicanum says this about Vampires - http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vampires#.U51a4S-7k8Y

Skaven "settlements" would be sporadic to say the least...
There are many mentions throughout old 40k.. much of it retconed alas (like all good 40k IP its seems...)
But in the end the only races that can maintain a stand-alone army are self-reliant (which the Imperium is when looked at as a whole) species that use conquest as a means of resource gathering.. (The only exception being the Orks but one could say their creativity towards scrap could be self-reliance)
Skaven (not Hrud GW was pretty specific towards their description.. at one pont anyway...) would probably be that group that huddles in the underdark places of Hives and caves alongside Mutants and beastmen...

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Skaven "settlements" would be sporadic to say the least...
There are many mentions throughout old 40k.. much of it retconed alas (like all good 40k IP its seems...)
But in the end the only races that can maintain a stand-alone army are self-reliant (which the Imperium is when looked at as a whole) species that use conquest as a means of resource gathering.. (The only exception being the Orks but one could say their creativity towards scrap could be self-reliance)
Skaven (not Hrud GW was pretty specific towards their description.. at one pont anyway...) would probably be that group that huddles in the underdark places of Hives and caves alongside Mutants and beastmen...

Yeah. The skaven could be introduced as a half fledged faction, as a plot element in the fluff.

We already have VC in 40k. They're called BA.

Anyways, there isn't a way you can integrate skaven.

The reason that skaven are skaven, and not just rat versions of orcs is that they have the entire underworld. They have a secret existence where they can go anywhere, and be anywhere right under everybody's nose.

That doesn't really work in an intergalactic sense, as you can't tunnel your way across the galaxy. If they could "tunnel" through the warp, then they'd be just another chaos faction, basically, and if they had some extra-planar way of moving, well, that's what the webway is, and we already have that. You can't even get a unique "be anywhere" vibe when 40k has drop pods, and webway portals, and demonic rifts, which all allow for that.

Part of the problem is that what makes skaven so interesting has largely been pillaged bit by bit from other races in 40k. The only way you could shoehorn them in is if you took every race and made them give their little skaven piece back so that you could collect it into a single army again.

And I can't imagine 40k players would want that.

There is still space for more xenos in 40k, and I think beastmen could actually possibly leap the gap (sort of like firefly's reavers, but more chaos. Sort of an anti-tau), but skaven is going to be a hard sell.

Lol, those comical reavers.

I have an idea for the Skaven:

During the opening days of the Great Crusade, the Skaven empire was the only other major force in the galaxy, with might enough to challenge the newborn IoM.

At that time the IoM was only a fraction of its current size. The GEOM went to war with them. In the process, he rained cyclonic warheads upon them and exterminated many worlds.

Because of the exterminatii, the skaven were forced to go underground. Because all the skaven Agri worlds were burnt up, they were forced to pilfer from the IoM.

The skaven were forced to scatter and disperse throughout the galaxy. They could no longer come together to undertake any projects, lest they incur the wrath of the IoM.

The skaven are a chaos worshipping race and played a key role in the corruption of the space marine legions.

They are hated by the eldar for their chaotic ways, much like the stryxian are hated by the eldar.

Now, the skaven assist the alpha legion in bringing about the downfall of the IoM. Unlike their imperial counterparts, an alpha legionnaire would have no qualms about consorting with xenos in order to strike against the IoM.

Now the skaven hide within the IoM, keeping their existence a secret. Just like fantasy skaven. They eke out a covert existence underground, meeting in secret with one another to plot against the IoM.

I'm not sure about their relations with the necrons, though it is expected that they've disturbed a few tomb worlds.

I know 40k is hardly the most hard sci-fi of settings, but I vehemently dislike such blatant things as "Aliens who just so happen to look like anthropomorphic rats". It's bad enough with all the different flavours of human we have running around, although I headcanon (simultaneously a bit of a cop-out and cliché, but that's because it's the only possible explanation and is therefore used in many sci-fi settings) that all "humans, but X" races were created by the Old Ones, possibly including the Necron'tyr. We already have the Eldar and Orks confirmed, explaining their similarities nicely, and there's the hinting that humans were created by the Old Ones based on the whole "slowly becoming a more psychic race" thing. I suppose Space Skaven could have been created by the Old Ones as well, but then we just have furry Orks with Dark Eldar elements and extra Weirdboy stuff.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I know 40k is hardly the most hard sci-fi of settings, but I vehemently dislike such blatant things as "Aliens who just so happen to look like anthropomorphic rats". It's bad enough with all the different flavours of human we have running around, although I headcanon (simultaneously a bit of a cop-out and cliché, but that's because it's the only possible explanation and is therefore used in many sci-fi settings) that all "humans, but X" races were created by the Old Ones, possibly including the Necron'tyr. We already have the Eldar and Orks confirmed, explaining their similarities nicely, and there's the hinting that humans were created by the Old Ones based on the whole "slowly becoming a more psychic race" thing. I suppose Space Skaven could have been created by the Old Ones as well, but then we just have furry Orks with Dark Eldar elements and extra Weirdboy stuff.

But the skaven are hardly orky.


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 Ailaros wrote:

The reason that skaven are skaven, and not just rat versions of orcs is that they have the entire underworld. They have a secret existence where they can go anywhere, and be anywhere right under everybody's nose.

That doesn't really work in an intergalactic sense, as you can't tunnel your way across the galaxy. If they could "tunnel" through the warp, then they'd be just another chaos faction, basically, and if they had some extra-planar way of moving, well, that's what the webway is, and we already have that. You can't even get a unique "be anywhere" vibe when 40k has drop pods, and webway portals, and demonic rifts, which all allow for that.

Although the skaven have a vast underground network, it's not as if they can just step right out into the main city square of Middenheim. Their tunnel exits must be nearby, but hidden.

Similarly, the skaven in 40k might inhabit worlds dangerously close to civilized imperial worlds. The imperials think these worlds are dead or deserted. However, the skaven have constructed large underground bases on these worlds, hidden from the sight of the imperials.

As mentioned earlier, the skaven live underground due to the massive exterminatus carried out against them during the great crusade. Sometimes, they even allow the CSMs to gather in their underground bases, to prepare for a sudden strike against the IoM.

The skaven own a huge number of underground bases on seemingly deserted worlds, allowing them to gather forces without being spotted. You might consider that their strongest suit.

Guys, CLEARLY the question we need to be asking is how to introduce the Tau to Warhammer Fantasy.

 fallinq wrote:
Guys, CLEARLY the question we need to be asking is how to introduce the Tau to Warhammer Fantasy.

Well, there is Nippon.


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Except for tyranids, the other factions all sprung from Tolkienesque fantasy.

Tolkien put them in a medieval setting. However, they don't exactly represent "the past".

On the other hand, the Tau clearly represent "the future".

It is difficult to put them into whfb. I would say that the Draenei in warcraft are the closest match.


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Hey! Check this out:


It is from Rouge Trader, the very first edition of 40k.

I found it sandwiched in a section about the inquisition.

I think they are supposed to be some ugly ass admech, but they work really as skaven. Like the stryxian the skaven could possibly replace, the figures in this drawing are swathed in robes,

I guess this is what "futurised" skaven would look like.

Another thing you would need to think about is what would be the theme or style of battle. Hard to come up with something that doesn't feel too much like one of the existing races in this regard.

Maximus Bitch wrote:As mentioned earlier, the skaven live underground due to the massive exterminatus carried out against them during the great crusade. Sometimes, they even allow the CSMs to gather in their underground bases, to prepare for a sudden strike against the IoM.

The skaven own a huge number of underground bases on seemingly deserted worlds, allowing them to gather forces without being spotted. You might consider that their strongest suit.

But without space travel, they're meaningless as a threat. The IoM could let them just rot in their holes, or go and pick them off one by one if they're really that much of a threat.

It's tough to come up with a compelling reason that space rats would take over the entire galaxy if they were left unchecked.

 Ailaros wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:As mentioned earlier, the skaven live underground due to the massive exterminatus carried out against them during the great crusade. Sometimes, they even allow the CSMs to gather in their underground bases, to prepare for a sudden strike against the IoM.

The skaven own a huge number of underground bases on seemingly deserted worlds, allowing them to gather forces without being spotted. You might consider that their strongest suit.

But without space travel, they're meaningless as a threat. The IoM could let them just rot in their holes, or go and pick them off one by one if they're really that much of a threat.

It's tough to come up with a compelling reason that space rats would take over the entire galaxy if they were left unchecked.

On a side note, I hope we don't end up arguing just for the sake of arguing, I've seen many forum discussions devolve into that.


The skaven could have space travel too. They are well aware that the IoM would destroy them, so just like the skaven in whfb, they hide underground. So the IoM only sees the deserted surface of the planet.

Unlike the IoM, the skaven empire was destroyed a long time ago, so they are loosely organized. However, this gives them a degree of flexibility.

Most importantly, the skaven work through their human agents, the alpha legion, to subvert the IoM which destroyed their glorious empire so long ago. The skaven remain off the IoM's radar. The CSMs also benefit as the skaven supply them with all manner of chaotic artefacts.

The eldar and the stryxian have a mysterious hatred for one another. If the skaven take over this role, the reason for their mutual hatred will become obvious; the skaven are cunning chaotic vermin, something the eldar will be afraid of.


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JubbJubbz wrote:
Another thing you would need to think about is what would be the theme or style of battle. Hard to come up with something that doesn't feel too much like one of the existing races in this regard.

I'm not sure what rck priestly was thinking when he drew those admech, they look so much like skaven LoL