Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let's discuss transports today. Besides capacity, what are the pros and cons of using one or the other? Rhino and Razorback. In general, do you prefer to take cheaper squads in a RB, or is it better in your opinion to have 10 SM in a rhino? Include what army you play and maybe what type of game is appropriate for each tank. I think its always a better bet to BUY the razorback, just because you get the bits for both tanks and its an easy swap, but when list building, what are your philosophies on when and why to use one or the other?

Razorbacks are just cooler. So I rarely use Rhinos. But I'm the kind of player who likes to choose units based on fluff and flavor.

I think a Rhino might actually be the optimal choice unless you're planning to put a Lascannon on the Razorback and use it to try and snipe armor from the backfield behind cover. A Rhino can have two twin-linked stormbolters, plus a number of marines firing out of the top hatch. You get a greater volume of fire from it, plus there's ten dudes inside instead of 5 or 6, when it gets popped (and it almost assuredly will).

Yeah it has Razor in its name. Automatically wins over something that does not have Razor in its name.

LOL. Thanks guys.

I'd say that if you're playing IH having a bunch of RZBacks could do OK with the buff to vehicles thanks to the CT and the new damage chart in 7th. You could use them as decent shooting platforms that way. Otherwise as a pure transport I'd go with the rhino for capacity and cheap cost.

How is the stormbolter on a rhino twin-linked?

Razorbacks will always have a place in my army if I can manage it. They make a great way to buff an otherwise uninspired unit. I take em with a hb 5 man tac squad. Tada a devestator squad. Take a lascannon, tada lascannon devestators.

I luvs razorbacks, I also luvs land raiders.

Playing Wolves tends towards the benefits of large squads and Rhinos. The exception is the Long Fangs in which a Razor acts as an extra heavy weapon.

However, if I was playing an army with Combat Squads, you'd see half the squad set up with the heavy weapon in my back field and the other half with the special weapon in the Razor.

 j31c3n wrote:
Razorbacks are just cooler. So I rarely use Rhinos. But I'm the kind of player who likes to choose units based on fluff and flavor.

I think a Rhino might actually be the optimal choice unless you're planning to put a Lascannon on the Razorback and use it to try and snipe armor from the backfield behind cover. A Rhino can have two twin-linked stormbolters, plus a number of marines firing out of the top hatch. You get a greater volume of fire from it, plus there's ten dudes inside instead of 5 or 6, when it gets popped (and it almost assuredly will).

That is 2 Stormbolters, not 2 TL stormbolters. As to which is better depends on what you want it to do. There are a couple of tricks with a Rhino like combat squadding in the rhino at deployment and then move 6 deploy squad 1 6" and flat out to get the second one closer to were you want them. Rhino is cheaper also. Razor can be a great transport for a quick redeploy of a Dev squad. Razor also does a good job of being a cheap heavy weapon tank in a foot list. or rhino rush list.

I like a mixture of 2 - 2, the rhinos have two ten man squads with heavy and special weapon, while the razor unit has a special weapon inside with the heavy weapon combat squaded shooting from the back and holding an objective.

I like that idea, actually.

Razorbacks are very powerful at providing cheap and powerful, mobile weaponry. Either running a 5 man tac squad unit (or a combat squad unit) is very powerful for maelstrom, too.

They do better in numbers, though. They're strong, but fairly fragile.

Well, in a GK army, both transports have a place:
Psybacks with Henchmen as backfield units and Rhinos with GKSS/Purifiers and dual psycannons as more offensive units.

Rhino or Razorback. One is a fragile, but dirt cheap, dedicated transport box. The other is a fragile, more expensive, bastard child of a transport and fire support unit. I'd say that in general the Rhino tends to win: it's role is more focused and it's cheaper price tag means you can always stick fire support somewhere else in your army. However, if you have a particular play style/plan in mind then Razorbacks have their merits. When taking Razorbacks I think they need to be taken in numbers, as their armament makes them much more of a target than a Rhino.

I think the Chapter Tactics (or codex!) one is using is the deciding factor for this question:

-Ultramarine and Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics buff infantry units and don't particularly synergise well with vehicles, so you'd probably be better off taking Rhinos and using the points you would've spent on Razorbacks to get more bodies.

-Salamanders could go either or--and they're probably best with Drop Pods. However, since a Salamander army is likely loading up on Flamer weaponry a Razorback could add a mobile anti-Monster/Vehicle punch to a flamer-toting tactical squad. Las/Plas in particular strikes me as an effective buddy for a 5-man Flamer/Combi-Flamer squad. A few such squads in Razorbacks could be really effective!

-Raven Guard can pull off a pretty good transport rush with their Scout rule. I really like using Tactical Marines in combat squads with Rhinos: One squad has a Meltagun and Combi-Melta, the other has a Multi-Melta. The Rhino scouts up 12" and basically turns into a Multi-Melta turret, while the other squad moves out and goes a huntin'. However, Razorbacks can also benefit greatly from this rule. A Las/Plas Razorback could use the free movement to get into a defensible position and fire at full effectiveness all game, while an Assault Cannon Razorback can use it to get in range right away. As long as you have plenty of Razorbacks it could be a scary rush!

-White Scars should probably stick with bikes, but Khan can give dedicated transports Scout and allow the army to basically do the Raven Guard thing.

-Iron Hands have tougher vehicles, courtesy of It Will Not Die. This can keep Razorback Spam going, though it probably won't save the fragile things from Melta weapons and the like. If the list is a balanced force I would probably just stick with Rhino squads, but in a dedicated vehicle-spam army I'd take Razorbacks, probably with Assault Cannons (good general weapon) or maybe Las/Plas.

-Black Templars...I dunno. Their Chapter Tactics are kinda 'meh' in the first place. However, Crusader squads can take a Special and Heavy weapon with only a 5-man squad, which fits nicely into a Razorback. One could go all-out on the msu firepower by taking a ton of 5-man camping squads and using the Razorbacks as ad-hoc tanks. If you want the squads mobile, however, it might be best to just use Rhinos and have the squad fire out of the fire ports.

-Dark Angels: Either/or I suppose, but I don't think this is the codex for using transport boxes anyways.

-Blood Angels: Las/Plas Razorbacks can really make the most of the Fast rules their vehicles have, so I'd recommend that.

-Space Wolves: A ten-man squad of angry vikings with two plasma guns in a Rhino is probably the best here. As it moves the two plasma guns can still fire and even if it gets popped there's still a bucketload of Space Wolves to deal with. Still, sometimes I take Razorbacks with my Long Fang units and use them to support the Rhino charge, and to pick up damaged squads (few squads tend to maintain more than 6 guys through a game in my experience) late game and carry them to an objective.

-Grey Knights: Either can work very well. Psybolt Ammunition can make the Heavy Bolter Razorback fairly formidable--and it's still cheaper than the normal SM one!

Immolaters.

 Likan Wolfsheim wrote:
Rhino or Razorback. One is a fragile, but dirt cheap, dedicated transport box. The other is a fragile, more expensive, bastard child of a transport and fire support unit. I'd say that in general the Rhino tends to win: it's role is more focused and it's cheaper price tag means you can always stick fire support somewhere else in your army. However, if you have a particular play style/plan in mind then Razorbacks have their merits. When taking Razorbacks I think they need to be taken in numbers, as their armament makes them much more of a target than a Rhino.

I think the Chapter Tactics (or codex!) one is using is the deciding factor for this question:

-Ultramarine and Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics buff infantry units and don't particularly synergise well with vehicles, so you'd probably be better off taking Rhinos and using the points you would've spent on Razorbacks to get more bodies.

-Salamanders could go either or--and they're probably best with Drop Pods. However, since a Salamander army is likely loading up on Flamer weaponry a Razorback could add a mobile anti-Monster/Vehicle punch to a flamer-toting tactical squad. Las/Plas in particular strikes me as an effective buddy for a 5-man Flamer/Combi-Flamer squad. A few such squads in Razorbacks could be really effective!

-Raven Guard can pull off a pretty good transport rush with their Scout rule. I really like using Tactical Marines in combat squads with Rhinos: One squad has a Meltagun and Combi-Melta, the other has a Multi-Melta. The Rhino scouts up 12" and basically turns into a Multi-Melta turret, while the other squad moves out and goes a huntin'. However, Razorbacks can also benefit greatly from this rule. A Las/Plas Razorback could use the free movement to get into a defensible position and fire at full effectiveness all game, while an Assault Cannon Razorback can use it to get in range right away. As long as you have plenty of Razorbacks it could be a scary rush!

-White Scars should probably stick with bikes, but Khan can give dedicated transports Scout and allow the army to basically do the Raven Guard thing.

-Iron Hands have tougher vehicles, courtesy of It Will Not Die. This can keep Razorback Spam going, though it probably won't save the fragile things from Melta weapons and the like. If the list is a balanced force I would probably just stick with Rhino squads, but in a dedicated vehicle-spam army I'd take Razorbacks, probably with Assault Cannons (good general weapon) or maybe Las/Plas.

-Black Templars...I dunno. Their Chapter Tactics are kinda 'meh' in the first place. However, Crusader squads can take a Special and Heavy weapon with only a 5-man squad, which fits nicely into a Razorback. One could go all-out on the msu firepower by taking a ton of 5-man camping squads and using the Razorbacks as ad-hoc tanks. If you want the squads mobile, however, it might be best to just use Rhinos and have the squad fire out of the fire ports.

-Dark Angels: Either/or I suppose, but I don't think this is the codex for using transport boxes anyways.

-Blood Angels: Las/Plas Razorbacks can really make the most of the Fast rules their vehicles have, so I'd recommend that.

-Space Wolves: A ten-man squad of angry vikings with two plasma guns in a Rhino is probably the best here. As it moves the two plasma guns can still fire and even if it gets popped there's still a bucketload of Space Wolves to deal with. Still, sometimes I take Razorbacks with my Long Fang units and use them to support the Rhino charge, and to pick up damaged squads (few squads tend to maintain more than 6 guys through a game in my experience) late game and carry them to an objective.

-Grey Knights: Either can work very well. Psybolt Ammunition can make the Heavy Bolter Razorback fairly formidable--and it's still cheaper than the normal SM one!

great feedback. thanks!

CSM dont get to have Razor backs cuz its a new tech apparently.

The closest I can compare is a Rhino with a Havoc Missile Launcher. Str5 Ap5 small blast. A pitiful weapon.

I wish they created a unique rhino with an open top and a higher carrying capacity like 20 berserkers!

Like a double rhino!

For GK inquisition stuff

Rhinos for single psyker mana battery as they can P shrek out the fire points.

or

Razorback with psybolt ammo and HB

Both are reletivly inexpensive for what they do and both OS

I wish CSM had a Transport like the Drop Pod. We could call it the Dread Claw!

*The Masses* - "YEAH!"

Then we could throw things inside it and assault people!

*The Masses* - "YEAH!"

What's that? Forge World already made something called the Dread Claw? And it was discontinued, rules deleted and is out of date now?.... Well gak guys...

*The Masses* - "It's ok, we just play our SMs as Chaos when good things come out then reconvert to SMs when Chaos loses their gritt"

I've played with both since back in 3rd edition and will not field meq without them. They are mobile terrain that let you move and control/create firing lanes. They are both very good fr the points investment. If taking multiple razorbacks I prefer the assault cannon because of volume of fire and it's versatility. If a rhino, just powerslide it up, all day!