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I have been rebuilding my army after some time away from it, and have about 40 state troops with no weapons (both ranged and close combat) , and don't know what to make them into. I don't know which ones are stronger or which make better parent units or detachments. Any advice on this, some tactics I could use with them, and characters I should take with them are all welcome.

Welcome back! For state troops, halberds are the most often used. The +1 strength is big. I have had some success with a bus of swordsmen but halberds are the most versatile unit. Spearmen or any of the missile units very rarely make their points back.
Detachments are not very competitive anymore besides two 5x man archer detachments for redirection/charge blocking. However, a fun detachment is 5-10 free company or a unit of 20 swordsmen in a 5x4 formation to break opposing steadfast.
Back to halberds, they work best in a 10x4 or 10x5 horde formation with a warrior priest and a bsb or captain of some sort for hold the line. Lore of light, life, and shadows (beasts can work too) all work well on them. If you choose to go swordsmen, they work better in a bus 5x8 or 5x10 with again a priest, captain of some kind, and lore of light/shadow really help them. If you have any more questions I'd be glad to help!

Swordsmen are durable; the higher WS, armour, and Parry let them last longer.

Halberdiers are the most effective on the offense.

Spears...are bad. Free Company are in a similar position.

Handgunners and crossbowmen are basically the same. Matter of taste, there.
Archers pack less punch, but are more mobile. Still, I don't see many people fielding S3 stuff and expecting much.

Thanks guys, so spearmen are bad and I should make them into swordsmen or halberdiers then. What should I do about the missile troops? could I take a detachment of 10 and them still be useful? and which unit make better detachments: halberdiers or swordsmen?

Only archers are useful really; 10 crossbows or handguns are 90 points which they will never make up or be useful enough to warrant. I do have 20 of each that I do play for fun and because I like the models. I just don't recommend them as you initially rebuild. Both can work, it just depends what the parent unit's function is. If the parent is a hammer: swordsmen as deep as possible to break steadfast. Anvil parent needs halberds for more wounds. Hope that helps!

Okay, so I was talking to the manager at my local GW store about it and he said he has had success with a bus of 5x10 halberdiers with a 5x4 detachment of swordsmen. He took a which hunter, beast wizard, and a bsb with the griffon banner. He used this unit to lock up something from the opponents army and moved his army take out the rest of the opponents. Is this something worth doing? I have the models to do this, but I'm not sure what else would go with it.

Most people go for a horde of halberdiers with light magic buffs. S4 isn't bad and the more hits with retools you do, the more wounds you rack up.


Plus, you can get a ridiculously high strength banishment with cheap wizards.

I wouldn't be taking a magic banner on my BSB in an army that so regularly needs to make Leadership test, but yeah, that's a pretty common overall tactic.

Any kind of augment or hex that influences Strength, Toughness, rolls to hit, etc. does very well when applied to so many models. It transforms the unit from a decent tar pit to a legitimate threat.

Personally, I would much rather win a combat than build the core of my list on the premise of holding the biggest enemy unit up. The griffon banner also means that it's unit cannot overrun and the BSB can't take magical items. Also the higher strength is wasted by bussing halberds. I'm not cutting down his success, if that works for him it works, but on the whole I think you'll have a harder time winning by playing to tarpit

Depends on your opponent. Hordes of fast, elite troop will just shred through those WS3 T3 models. But if you need to rip through another mediocre unit, or lay the hurt down before those heavy-hitters swing, Horde it up.

I'm glad someone posted this; I've been struggling with core in empire too.

I see how halberds are good in large numbers, but how practical is it to actually deploy with full effect a true horde? (usually 10x4 or 10x5)

I agree a detachment of 20 swordsmen
in the 5x4 formation serves best: they are resistant enough to missile fire that one cannot casually sweep them aside with a small volley of arrows, and they should be able to hold up for a round or two on a flank to enable the parent company to break the enemy.
I entertained the idea of using free company, however their lack of applying all of their attacks in supporting ranks really devalues their use. You might be able to justify taking a few small units of 10 to screen...but archers at least have move and fire, support fire and skirmishing.

And I can see the merit of using some ICK for flanking. Some people run them as 5x2 (sometimes with a WP for anti-rubber lance syndrome) others use as 'heavy chaff' in small 5 man units...not sure what the consensus is on how best to use them (lance+shield or Great weapon)

Archers are great screening units/bunkers. Crossbows *might* be useful, but handgunners rarely are.


As others have mentioned, you have to decide what your overall strategy will be before you decide what your core's function is to be. Going gunline? Max out on ranged units. Using a lot of warrior-priests/wagons/magic? Go tons of line infantry. Fast army? All knights. Or a mix of each.

I would love to do a knight army but I don't have enough models for the army, thats why I'm asking about state troops. So I should take swordsmen in a bus because they are more survivable, and horde halberdiers so I can get more attacks of at +1 strength. What other units work well with state troops? and should I take detachments for my greatswords?

I suppose take a light wizard or two is a must now, what what level should I be making them and should I take any other lores along side them? and should I take a wagon along side the state troops?

From what I've read, the current advice goes as follows (and please, those more enlightened please chime in if I'm wrong):

For state troop choices, run a horde of halberds (10x4 or 10x5) with detachments of either/or:
- 20 swordsmen
- units of 5-10 archers, skirmishing
You also may also consider taking crossbows as a small standalone units, although some argue that this is wasted when we have Helblasters that can do a better job of things.
Handgunners have too short a range to really be of effective use - if you are sold on wanting black powder weapons, consider outriders or pistollers for their ability to get into range.


Regarding the Greatswords detachment rule...IIRC, detachments regardless of unit type count their points cost towards their parent unit. So that would mean even if you spend points on a Core type, such as swordsmen, as a detachment for greatswords their point costs would still count against Special type. This means that you don't really see people spending big on detachments for anything outside of Core, as it eats away at your Special points allocation limit.


Regarding the wizards...if you are going to run several light wizards, you can use a tactic known as a 'Light Council', which involves a level 4 light wizard, 2+ level 1 light wizards, and an Arch Lector on a War Alter. This allows you to hit with two high power Banishment spells which can be brutal, especially against undead/daemons.
You can also run a solo level 4 light wizard if you so wish, but you would be focusing more on the buffing spells, rather than the nuke.

A good alternative to Light is Shadow, which can do the reverse quite well and lower your opponents Strength (keep your guys alive), Toughness (easier for us to wound), Movement (good for gunlines/cavalry to buy extra distance) and Initiative (nice against elves, to help reduce their Always Strike First reroll rule).

Other honourable mentions for lores would be Metal (a nice all rounder lore) and Beasts, which could easily be run as level 1/2 wizards for their default spells. Death is quite popular, but it involves spending on a pegasus to fly close, and human wizards' lower than ideal leadership means alot of the assassination spells arn't going to be that good.


Hope this is of some help to you Shad0wCaptain.

Thanks for all the advice guys, its been nice to talk to you about it. So now I know what to take as my state troops, and what wizards I should be taking, but I would like to know peoples views on warrior priests, which hunters and captains, and how they should be equipped. I would also like to know which buff chariot is better to take, the luminark or the hurricanum?

Hurricanum is better. +1 to hit is better than a 6+ ward any day of the week, imo. Gives Knights the ability to hit chaff on twos, or your Halberds able to hit things that are WS6 or below on 3s.

Warrior Priests, if with a blob of infantry, should be equipped with Heavy Armor and a Great Weapon. Doesn't need much, as he's there to provide reroll to wound and hatred. (and, if you have the dice, 5+ ward in combat)

My BSB has a Great Weapon, Armor of Meteoric Iron, and a standard BSB. Works fine. You aree slower than pretty much everything, so having a Great Weapon is a good deal.

Life is good, better if you use Knights. Light is good for Knights and Infantry, and great if you face a lot of undead/daemons. Shadow gives you the potential for S9 halberdiers.

Some people swear by Witch Hunters, I don't take them. Giving one a Van Horstmann's and then going to town on a Daemon Prince is many lawls, much troll.

Shad0wCaptain wrote:Thanks for all the advice guys, its been nice to talk to you about it. So now I know what to take as my state troops, and what wizards I should be taking, but I would like to know peoples views on warrior priests, which hunters and captains, and how they should be equipped. I would also like to know which buff chariot is better to take, the luminark or the hurricanum?

Warrior Priests count as level 1 wizards, in that they can draw power and dispel dice. There is debate around taking WP for hatred vs a Hurricanum with +1 hit always. Generally, the Hurricanum is better for large infantry blocks, and a mounted WP in a group of knights to give rerolls on the crucial charge is ideal. I personally dont like the wagons, but thats just me (aesthetics) - alot of people take them!

Always take a captain for BSB: the imperial army really needs bolstering leadership that the BSB can offer. Captains can either be given the AoMI and a great weapon (as Crazyterran suggests) or take Full Plate, enchanted shield, a dawnstone and sword of might - it grants them a nice rerolling +2 save and decent strength. I am currently experimenting with a list that features the captain mounted with knights, but it is quite common to set him up in your halberd horde.

When running warrior priests, keep them cheap. Take heavy armour and either a great weapon or shield. Thats it.
They are there to give hatred to the unit and the occasional prayer (hammer of sigmar is particularly awesome for the first round of combat combined with hatred!) I plan to run two WP alongside a level 4 wizard for my magic phase.

My approach around characters in the Empire are that they are primarily support heroes and not combat beasts (with the sole exception of the grand masters with runefangs and a Captain riding a Pegasus ('Captasus'), and even they are not much to write home about compared to virtually every other faction's combat characters).

Given this, I tool our characters' gear for the greatest survivability over sheer killing, allowing their special rules and abilities to buff our troops en masse. Our characters serve the army as a whole far better by supporting the rank-and-file troops than by trying to compete with the likes of vampire lords, chaos champions, slaughtermasters or elven mages.

Regarding Witch Hunters. As mentioned by Crazyterran, they are a less common choice, but by no means are a bad one. For instance, you can take a Ruby Ring of Rhuin (fireball one) and use their Sniper and Killing Blow rule to blow up their assassination target. I would recommend, rather than always picking the enemy general, declare your target as something you feel you can realisitically get close enough to threaten (and make your points back by killing). Some people will be intimidated by the chance, no matter how remote, of you pulling off a fluke with the killing blow and steer clear of the Witch Hunter (and by extension, his unit). Meta-game psychology can work wonders, especially if your opponent has a particular fondness for his heroes.

Thanks for all the advice guys, it really helps. I should now be able to write a somewhat competitive list to go up against some of the more experienced players in the Battle of the Badland campaign I'm in, and I now have a grater understanding of how the core of my army works now. Thanks once again, and I'll let you know how it turns out.

It all depends where you get your miniatures from.

With modern kits you have a choice and should always build harberdiers. However if you manager check auction sites and bolster your army with 6th edition boxsets you get spearmen and handgunners and a cannon/mortar.

Handgunners are still useful, and cannon need no explanation. The spearmen while inferior to the other options still work, you need deeper formations,, and dont really need to care how wide they are as they only provide S3. Deep ranks spearmen can and do work because with State Troops its all about having more ranks than the opponent taking away their steadfast and getting the kills in with something else. Halberds help in that they offer reasonable hitting power of thier own, and while that is useful its not strictly necessary.

6th edition boxsets sell for very little and you can pick up a lot of state troops this way. Handled correctly the spearmen you get are not dead weight, and the handgunners never were.

I think that everyone is missing out on what makes Witch Hunters worth their points.

They have MR 2 and are only 50 pts base.

I have used one in a horde of halberdiers to great success. One of the scariest things for a large horde unit are magic spells that effect every model in the unit, especially when that unit is T3.
This can be further combined with one of the Obsidian artifacts. I personally like to give him the armour of destiny, then when fighting Chaos I use him in Challenges to keep my BSB and WP out of the challenge. This keeps my Halberdiers re-rolling hits first turn with hatred and ensures that it takes longer for a chaos lord to punk my BSB.

At 50 pts a model you could spam a few just to accept challenges for your Horde.

SudzyOne wrote:
I think that everyone is missing out on what makes Witch Hunters worth their points.

They have MR 2 and are only 50 pts base.

I have used one in a horde of halberdiers to great success. One of the scariest things for a large horde unit are magic spells that effect every model in the unit, especially when that unit is T3.
This can be further combined with one of the Obsidian artifacts. I personally like to give him the armour of destiny, then when fighting Chaos I use him in Challenges to keep my BSB and WP out of the challenge. This keeps my Halberdiers re-rolling hits first turn with hatred and ensures that it takes longer for a chaos lord to punk my BSB.

At 50 pts a model you could spam a few just to accept challenges for your Horde.

His rule allowing him to reroll to hit and wound on his "target" combined with vanhortsmans is just a great combo expecially against chaos

SudzyOne wrote:
They have MR 2 and are only 50 pts base...This can be further combined with one of the Obsidian artifacts.

While Witch Hunters are indeed useful, MR states that you use the highest value in the unit, so you can't combine, say, the Obsidian Trinket with a Witch Hunter for MR3.
But considering that MR2 is worth 30pts all on it's own, the Witch Hunter brings a lot more to the table than those extra 20pts.

 Shad0wCaptain wrote:
I would also like to know which buff chariot is better to take, the luminark or the hurricanum?

Consider this: in general, it is better to kill models than to save them. Because, no matter how tough your army is, you can't win just by surviving. You need to earn points.

Then, consider that +1 to Wound and a 6+ Ward save results in the same 16% increase, but that to Wound pools are usually bigger than Ward save pools, so that 16% works across more dice.
Of course, if your Halberdiers are going up against Blood Crushers, that 6+ Ward will probably see more action than the +1 to Wound. And if your Greatswords are fighting T3 troops, the +1 to Wound isn't going to do much for you.

Really, I don't think there's a huge difference in their awesomeness. The biggest difference is the bound spell; one is potentially crap and potentially awesome, and the other is specialized, but consistent. All depends what you need it for.

Except its +1 to hit, not +1 to wound.

IMO, the Hurricanum is more useful, there are more things out there that grant -1s to hit that there are +1s, and making it that 5+ is the worst you will ever hit on, and against most things, usually on 3s, witht he hatred reroll, is awesome.

that said, the Luminark works better in a Knight list, as the pseudo cannon/bolt thrower on top can be handy, and since you never get a parry, having a 6+ on a 25 pt model, is nice.

It also means you get a 3++ vs the searing dooms, rather than a 4++ (assuming MR3 which is always in my Knightbus)

That's right, it's +1 to Hit...but that's an even bigger pool than the to Wound roll, so the point remains pretty much the same.