Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I see people always talk play to the mission etc. how so when many games are just death match to the end .
this makes armys that can spam riptide wraightknight and imprale titans and other big nasty hard to take out to win the game. you might be able to kill a few but you won't be able to take them all out to win.
Is there really another way to play as 40k as it has become the one with most biggest nasty models wins

Also why is ther no longer foc army last game i played had 6riptides and a knight.

No FOC means you can sell everything to everyone and pass the blame for anything broken into the players instead of the rules.

A lot of the official structure is removed so that if someone shows up with, for example, a Genestealer Cult army made up of Renegades and Heretics from Imperial Armour 13 and two squads of Genestealers with few Inquisitors tossed in for whatever reason, they can. They dream it up so Unbound allows it in the rulebook.

Getting rid of the FOC also allows a game where Dark Eldar have six Fast Attack slots, Tyranids have three HQ, Orks have something else. It's not a FOC because not every army matches the cookie cutter army selection list of Space Marines. There's Formations now, separate Detachments with bonuses, additional supplements that might not even have troop choices at all such as Haemonculus Covens. Playing against six Riptides and a Knight might not be fun for you, but you could have walked away from that game at any time if it didn't match you definition of fun.

Playing the mission means taking objectives in game modes like Maelstrom. Where a less powerful army can win by points, luck and tactics while a stronger army such as the Riptides and Knights you mentioned doesn't have the ability to get these objectives all the time. It adds the need for speed when it used to just be durability and damage output. Now a fast army has just as much chance of winning. Tableing an opponent isn't the only way to win. I've lost to 2+ cover snipers on objectives I couldn't take because they were troops, even though they killed three models the entire game and didn't move an inch.

So basically unbound is the way to go and mission are gone now also its bring all your big toys and just kill each other last man standing wins . guess i need to brake down and work on building a knight with a titan.because in my last 10 games i am the only one who fields infantry any more

zilka86 wrote:
So basically unbound is the way to go and mission are gone now also its bring all your big toys and just kill each other last man standing wins . guess i need to brake down and work on building a knight army with a titan

Unbound is bad. Refuse to play against unbound lists, and bring battleforged 100% of the time. Get good at the art of ally abuse. Instead of going unbound, ally with yourself!

I don't like useing allies abuse to win feels like cheating

Unbound isn't the devil and it's not the answer to spam lists. If you want to build a spam list, that's fine. I for one wouldn't share a table with you but I'm sure someone would. But if I brought an unbound list of Tyranids with Genstealers, Lictors and Gargoyles but no HQ anywhere I sight, would that be unacceptable? Because I don't want to pay 150pts in a small game for an HQ I don't want because it's not a Broodlord, does that mean the game shou,d be refused because it's Unbound? Unbound is what players make it.

Last Man Standing isn't what Maelstrom is about and if that is all you've been encountering, then I suggest you find somewhere new to play. Because I've never had an issue with excessively overpowered lists being the ONLY thing in the area I can possibly play against.

Again, you have the right to turn down games. Use it if you feel like you're being forced to play in a way you don't like.

Hah wow, does anyone commenting here actually play 40k?

First, unbound has nothing to do with 'missions', they are separate ideas. Unbound is not 'bad' by any means, it allows you to have some additional flexibility - that said if you're playing against a jerk using unbound, he's the same jerk using battle-forged, don't play with jerks.

The mission is the mission and that has nothing to do with list-building. Battle-forged however gives you an advantage over unbound because of object-secured, even more so in Maelstrom missions.

Imo Maelstrom missions are the great balancer. But there are tons of great missions and ways to play 40k, from City Fight, Planet Strike, Zone Mortalis, Kill Team, Eternal War missions, Maelstrom of War missions, Alter of War missions etc etc... just because some lame group of kids only plays "death match" doesn't mean you need to do that.

I've discussed with my group about using unbound as an easy way to field Admech (FW, 3rd party & conversions) as count as.. All imperial faction and still taking a HQ and 2 troops;; and following a combined arms FOC. Models have to look like what there are representing more or less. Things aren't chosen because they make a powerful list, rather fun to play and look the part. Pretty good reception even from players that outright refuse to play against unbound.

zilka86 wrote:
I see people always talk play to the mission etc. how so when many games are just death match to the end .

Why are you playing death matches to the bitter end?

I havnt played unbound butisnt there something in there that does not allow you to contest objectives or something like that? I'm sure it would let you hold them but not contest them which would also mean it would be fairly easy to take any you hold away from you.

I prefer to have a lot of the limitations in the rules to avoid relying on players not to abuse them. We have enough of that with the math hammerers and rules lawyers.

Mathhammer has nothing to do with the rules. That's just probability math on dice outcomes. And Unbound doesn't have Objective Secured, so Unbound can still contest an objective held by a non-troop choice, but bound-troops will have the priority on scoring.

With a few exceptions, I don't play unbound, or against seriously abused allies (it's ok if there is a *reason* for it, and the unbound army is not absurd). I won't play Orks and IK in a CTA army, for instance -- not because of technical reasons, but just because I'd rather spend my time against a more thematically built army. I only play a bit, so I try to make it count

zilka86 wrote:
So basically unbound is the way to go and mission are gone now also its bring all your big toys and just kill each other last man standing wins . guess i need to brake down and work on building a knight with a titan.because in my last 10 games i am the only one who fields infantry any more

Have you actually tried playing to the mission?..

Playing to the mission should be done in every game IMO. There are enough missions where the kills make a difference. As you roll for mission after army selection, it would mean that you are gambling when building your army.
If you know you are playing missionless or a last man standing before building your army, you cant really complain that your army was outclassed in death dealing because your set up to claim objectives.

Steelmage99 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I see people always talk play to the mission etc. how so when many games are just death match to the end .

Why are you playing death matches to the bitter end?

Because that's how my group play ever one but me hates the idea of mission. they prefer to just play death match to the end . with unbound letting you take the best stuff in the game to make army list troops and other nonpowerfull units will no longer be used


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have a game for tom my opponent will be field 3 riptides 2wrigthkingst and a impearl knight our 2 and a dreadknight
I do not have nuff firepower in my army to talk all that down in 6 truns before i wiped out

Then that's an issue with where you play and who you play, not with 40k. The problem completely falls on you to play somewhere else and with other people and if you are unable to do that, then you either have to suck it up or not play 40k until your situation changes. The internet forum can't change how Tom plays or the army that you bring or that the word 'fun' means very different things for the both of you. If you dislike it that much then say 'I'm not playing a game like that with you'.

I believe that's how the meta has changed too in all places who ever can spend the most om the biggest stuff will win as unbound lets you bring anything you want

zilka86 wrote:
I believe that's how the meta has changed too in all places who ever can spend the most om the biggest stuff will win as unbound lets you bring anything you want

Quite the opposite. Maelstorm missions strongly reward board controle.

 koooaei wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I believe that's how the meta has changed too in all places who ever can spend the most om the biggest stuff will win as unbound lets you bring anything you want

Quite the opposite. Maelstorm missions strongly reward board controle.

With six Riptides and one Knight you might get board control.

And than you face a bunch of footslogging guards with a hell ton of conscripts that don't care bout knights or riptides much.

 koooaei wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I believe that's how the meta has changed too in all places who ever can spend the most om the biggest stuff will win as unbound lets you bring anything you want

Quite the opposite. Maelstorm missions strongly reward board controle.

As i posted earlier my group only ever plays death matchs to the never any mission type games.
And with unbound ur cann use the best models from
gw

Means you don't have missions in the first place. Of course you can't play to a mission in this case.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Then that's an issue with where you play and who you play, not with 40k. The problem completely falls on you to play somewhere else and with other people and if you are unable to do that, then you either have to suck it up or not play 40k until your situation changes. The internet forum can't change how Tom plays or the army that you bring or that the word 'fun' means very different things for the both of you. If you dislike it that much then say 'I'm not playing a game like that with you'.

And if everyone in his area plays with unbound his chance to play an army without it and missions will only be good, if he buys a second army and plays against himself.

I don't know, maybe FLGS and GW stores are like BurgerKings , one on every corner. But here it wouldn't matter if I drive 50 or 100km people play with the same rules and if I wanted to use lets say FW, the closest place to get a game with it is probably germany or maybe the Czech Republic.


Also don't say that the missions fix problems with w40k. They don't. Eldar are the same if they play kill games or objective games and unless the discard and redraw mechanics are house ruled the whole system is very clunky , offten giving first turn wins to people with better hand draws.

Makumba wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Then that's an issue with where you play and who you play, not with 40k. The problem completely falls on you to play somewhere else and with other people and if you are unable to do that, then you either have to suck it up or not play 40k until your situation changes. The internet forum can't change how Tom plays or the army that you bring or that the word 'fun' means very different things for the both of you. If you dislike it that much then say 'I'm not playing a game like that with you'.

And if everyone in his area plays with unbound his chance to play an army without it and missions will only be good, if he buys a second army and plays against himself.

I don't know, maybe FLGS and GW stores are like BurgerKings , one on every corner. But here it wouldn't matter if I drive 50 or 100km people play with the same rules and if I wanted to use lets say FW, the closest place to get a game with it is probably germany or maybe the Czech Republic.


Also don't say that the missions fix problems with w40k. They don't. Eldar are the same if they play kill games or objective games and unless the discard and redraw mechanics are house ruled the whole system is very clunky , offten giving first turn wins to people with better hand draws.

Simple, basic, human communication goes a long way for making happy gaming group. I realize this is an impossible concept for the 40K community... but if everyone in your area plays jerk-lists then you really have no better option than to, *gasp*, speak up.

Seems like the OPsoe bad luck seen players dont use unbound and stick with the FOC Try traveling one town over to play for a while until Tom s tired of sitting by himself looking at his big guys sitting on a shelf.
Another thing to try would be tailoring. For example an entire army composed of nothing but drop pod sternguard with combi plasma/melta (if you dont have the pods make do with pvc pipe it works and color coded push pins to represent the plasma "charges" you can remove after being used..

We had that problem with one player and I solved it this way.
"Ok, we have been playing it your way for how long, well it is time to play it By The Rules a few times."

It worked real well and now he ask what we are playing now first, at least before trying to get his way.

 Gunzhard wrote:


Simple, basic, human communication goes a long way for making happy gaming group. I realize this is an impossible concept for the 40K community... but if everyone in your area plays jerk-lists then you really have no better option than to, *gasp*, speak up.

Sure just let me quickly learn german and book a ticket to berlin and hope to find a group that doesn't play good armies there. You know what was my opponents reaction to leting me use units that were in the IG book, were removed and left almost identical as FW? You can't and by opponents I mean the whole city all shops in it AND when I asked the same on polish forums the reaction was the same.
Also I don't get why good lists are called jerk lists by you. I liked my IG in 5th, it was a good army, I had a ton of fun playing it. It is beyond my understanding why GW makes people pay as much for their stuff. I started at the end of 5th. If I took the money and bought myself a consol I could still be having fun with it now. With GW you never now if they suddenly don't decide to make a new edition or set of rules or make your army viable with "FW only". And no amount of talking can change it. Unless one plays eldar. Eldar They are never bad, at worse they are as bad as hard to play with mid tier list.

Makumba wrote:

 Gunzhard wrote:


Simple, basic, human communication goes a long way for making happy gaming group. I realize this is an impossible concept for the 40K community... but if everyone in your area plays jerk-lists then you really have no better option than to, *gasp*, speak up.

Sure just let me quickly learn german and book a ticket to berlin and hope to find a group that doesn't play good armies there. You know what was my opponents reaction to leting me use units that were in the IG book, were removed and left almost identical as FW? You can't and by opponents I mean the whole city all shops in it AND when I asked the same on polish forums the reaction was the same.
Also I don't get why good lists are called jerk lists by you. I liked my IG in 5th, it was a good army, I had a ton of fun playing it. It is beyond my understanding why GW makes people pay as much for their stuff. I started at the end of 5th. If I took the money and bought myself a consol I could still be having fun with it now. With GW you never now if they suddenly don't decide to make a new edition or set of rules or make your army viable with "FW only". And no amount of talking can change it. Unless one plays eldar. Eldar They are never bad, at worse they are as bad as hard to play with mid tier list.

What did I just read? ...ugh wow. Well I'm pretty sure I never called your lists, or "good lists" - jerk lists, I was referring to the nonsense idea of unbound meaning "the biggest stuff will win as unbound lets you bring anything you want". As for Berlin and learning German - you lost me there dude.

If your community doesn't allow FW that is hardly a fault of the rules, or "unbound" or even missions. And further, Eldar were bad for many years; I agree that the current book is tough to beat, there is no doubt about that; but again that has nothing to do with "death matches", "unbound" or missions, Forgeworld rules, or your uptight gaming community.

I'm sure you can find at least one like-minded person to play games allowing FW ...if not, well sorry; you're welcome to visit the US and play in my group.