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Hey guys!! Been writing some lists lately and I am tired of including the witches. Yes, they are undoubtedly the best core choice and best infantry choice to tackle light to medium units, but I want to field something different and more durable (without the CoB)
My main aim is to create 2 big combat blocks and surround it with chaff, fast cav (maybe darkshards?)

Basically, I'm asking advice on what would work well with 30 executioners supported by 25 black guard. I could either go corsairs to support executioners but they are far less durable than black guard. I'm thinking if I have 2 big combat blocks then just spend rest on shooting and fast cav. Sound wise?

Also, executioners are immense with frenzy so Tullaris dreadbringer is an auto-include for me there. That way both BG and executioners are pretty much immune to infantry breaking tactics.

Mage wise I plan on using a lvl 4 on a peg with CoT, scroll and obsidian trinket. Maybe run death to fly in, magical kill characters and get the hell out.

With this in mind, what would work best for me guys? I'm open to anything and everything so go nuts in terms of advice.

Thank you.

Welcome to Dakka!

I think you've got the right idea. Darkshard core, a unit or two of dark riders, then add bolt throwers and warlocks till you are out of points. The shooting lets you put pressure on lists that want to dance around you, and your fast cav help you set up favorable combats.

I run a similar list with 2 exec hordes, and am pretty successful with it. Magic heavy lists give me the most trouble. You might consider throwing in a ring of hotek or a warding scroll if you encounter the same.

WoW, thanks for such a quick response. Knew this forum was the best

As for the list, do you think executioners are supported well by BG?

Tullaris is a must to maximise that damage output, which in my mind would just be devastating when used correctly.

As for core, would it be best to have 2-3 units of Dark Riders and rest on Darkshards? I mean, i want the enemy to get hammered to bits until they finaly approach my battle line, but i would love to know i'm safe in the flanks also. Shooting would cover this with 4 bolt throwers?

Lords and Hero choices are a bit of a shady one for me. With this list i suppose a mobile mage would be best? Smash units and whittle them down until they reach my line. I was thinking just the one mage on a pegasus, if so which lore (Ofcourse depending on my macth up)

Finaly, Tullaris and my SS are my choices, but thats pretty much all i would need right?

I use 2x execs. I theorize BG will work also.

I'd make sure you have darkshards, warlocks, and bolt throwers first. If you have two units of warlocks and points left over, then start adding dark riders. I use 40 darkshards (in 2 units), 6 dark riders, 10 warlocks (in 2 units), 4 bolt throwers, 80 executioners (in 2 units), a SS, and a BSB master at 2800 points.

Tullaris is 2nd to a BSB master. Rerolling failed leadership tests is very important this edition.

Choose what you want your mage to do, then equip the mage accordingly. Death is for killing chars, and a mobile mage helps its short range. If you want to support your shooting, you can reduce armor with metal, or reduce toughness/speed with shadow. Your lore is part of your army list, you can't change depending on your matchup, unless your opponent agrees.

Ok, so i've taken your advice and i have writtena list. I am super happy with it, but no doubt you or other can pick bits in it, which is great.. Good CC is welcome.

Here it is.

LORDS:

SS
+lvl 4
+scroll
+CoT
+Peg
+Obsidian Trinket
(360 points)

HEROES:

Tullaris Dreadbringer
(155 points)

Sorceress
+lvl 2
+ToP
(160 points - either life or shadow in Corsair Block)

Master
+SDC
+HA
+Enchanted Shield
+Dawnstone
+BSB
+Sword of Might
(155 Points - in with Corsairs)

CORE:

5 Dark Riders
+Shields
+RxB's
+Musician
(110 points)

5 Dark Riders
+shields
+RxB's
+Musician

30 BA Corsairs
+FC
+Razor Banner
(405 Points)

SPECIAL:

30 Executioners
+FC
(390 points)

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers
(280 points)

RARE:

5 Doomfire Warlocks
(125 Points)

6 Doomfire Warlocks
(150 points)

This list comes in at EXACTLY 2400 points.

My reason for lvl 2 is to either heal the corsairs or buff them with shadow, just incase things get desperate.

Anything bad with this list?

Corsairs can't take a 50 point banner.

Oh christ, just seen that cock up lol! Maybe swap for banner of swiftness just incase i needed to cut something off.


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Also, i weas thinking i could drop the sorceres,, and with excess points from the corsairs banner swap out i could buy fill some darkshards.

Tricks:
Take 29 executioners, plus tullaris, with std of discipline. May as well take those frenzy tests on ld 10. Also get a nice rectangle.

I'd be tempted to go with beasts for your lvl 2, to ensure a str buff for those corsairs. Look into the Scroll of Shielding for her.

The 6th warlock seems like points better spent on magic items.

kooshlord wrote:
Tricks:
Take 29 executioners, plus tullaris, with std of discipline. May as well take those frenzy tests on ld 10. Also get a nice rectangle.

I'd be tempted to go with beasts for your lvl 2, to ensure a str buff for those corsairs. Look into the Scroll of Shielding for her.

The 6th warlock seems like points better spent on magic items.

Or go dark on the level 1. Get the power dice and a strength boost.

Frenzied Executioners are a double edged sword. A competent player will exploit that.

Hmmmm, both those Korea would b amazing for my lvl 2, both signature spells work for the corsairs massively. PoD would b nice for extra power dice.

Any other things U can pick up with this list, or is it looking pretty solid?


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Hmmmm, both those Lores would b amazing for my lvl 2, both signature spells work for the corsairs massively. PoD would b nice for extra power dice.

Any other things U can pick up with this list, or is it looking pretty solid?

Looks pretty solid, a mixed arms approach which I like. See if it fits your playstyle and meta. You'll need to accept that Tullaris will die a lot, just make sure you hit something hard before he dies.

I started out with a similar list, but 2500 or 2800 points which let me field a 2nd exec horde. I had trouble with flying monsters flanking/rear-charging me, so I turned most of my core into darkshards to whittle them to death.

See, I have been looking at darkshards. I will have to run with it a few times over and see how it fairs. My concerns are exactly what you presented earlier, if my bolt throwers fail then monsters can whip up behind me and that's something I don't want.

2 executioner hordes sounds immense! What numbers where you running in each block?


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I have made minor adjustments to the list. Razor banner on corsairs is illegal, so I put banner of swiftness on them. Took away that extra doomfire lock, took away 3 corsairs and 1 executioner.

Togeather that's freed up 100 points, possibility for some shades with great weapons there?

kooshlord wrote:

I use 40 darkshards (in 2 units), 6 dark riders, 10 warlocks (in 2 units), 4 bolt throwers, 80 executioners (in 2 units), a SS, and a BSB master at 2800 points.

I've moved away from Tullaris and the 2nd mage in favor of more bodies.

I highly recommend 3 units of 10 darkshards and a cauldron of blood. Max effectiveness for your core.

Hmmm, Executioners into the CoB. Ok, so building a darkshard/Dark Rider core would you build to the 600 point cap?

Shadowblades wrote:
Hmmm, Executioners into the CoB. Ok, so building a darkshard/Dark Rider core would you build to the 600 point cap?

Cauldron+Executioners is a bad idea. It takes up frontage so you get less S6, and they get the effect most of the time due to being S6. It's better off on a low strength unit.

Or, for shooting. As it makes darkshards actually earn their points.

If you want a slightly different approach and don't mind dropping tullaris, Allarielle, incarnate of life in the Black Guard supported by the executioners is insane, giving everything a 4+ regen and a 6+ ward on top of their already formidable offensive stats.

Also a pretty cheap level 5 wizard.

 Krellnus wrote:
If you want a slightly different approach and don't mind dropping tullaris, Allarielle, incarnate of life in the Black Guard supported by the executioners is insane, giving everything a 4+ regen and a 6+ ward on top of their already formidable offensive stats.

Also a pretty cheap level 5 wizard.

Yeah, but that's a different army for a campaign supplement.

The core of the army is the same.

 Krellnus wrote:
The core of the army is the same.

Still not a Dark Elf army.

The core may not have changed, but you may have well suggested an Empire army, for the same effect.

Looks pretty solid to me.

The only thing I would say is that, if you are planning on running the Corsairs, they are going to need more support than they're currently getting. Outside of a Cauldron, that may mean switching over your Lvl4 to something like Shadow or Dark (or switching her to Morathi) though I do appreciate that Death works great for mounted Wizards. However, a Lvl2 with Dark and the Tome of Furion could work well, as you'd be able to default to Power of Darkness and Word of Pain, two spells which would really help the corsairs out.

Although it's a bit of a dramatic overhaul, in a list like this, where you focus solely on one or two combat blocks doing the dirty work, I'd make that second block Black Guard - a unit that can do much better with less support than Corsairs - and, for Core, load up on Dark Riders (to dictate movement and ensure you can pick your fights) and small units of darkshards or handbow corsairs (to ensure enemy chaff can't do the same). Ultimately though, it is your list, and, as it is, it is pretty good.

Hope this helps, any more questions, just ask!

Well, looking at this discussion, and my list being about my two combat blocks, I've come up with this:

I removed all my corsairs, removed my lvl 2, removed that odd doomfire warlock, removed Tullaris and now can afford this as follows:

25 black guard
+ full command
+ razor banner

20 darkshards
+ musician
+SB
+shields
+banner of eternal flame.

This is actually tonnes better than what I had before hand.

How's that looking?


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And...... My BSB can slip into the executioners as the black guard don't break anyway.


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Also, as I am actually set on the black guard as support, would it be fest to run the 5x5?

I haven't done the math, make sure you've still got min core.

BSB probably wants to sit in something that doesn't break, because he autodies if his unit does break.

I say start the black guard 7 wide, and adjust as necessary. Pretty good first turn hitting power, max attacks against 5-wide 20 mm infantry, not too unwieldy.

Ah ok thanks for the advice. My core limit is just a couple of points over anywa, so its not too bad.

With the 20 dark shards, i could break them down into 2 units of ten, both with musicians, no shields and maybe a banner each. But im thinking if i just have 20, Musician with SB, flame banner on 1 flank, whatever rolls down that side is taking 40 shots to the face. Maximises likeliness of wounding instead of breaking down into two units of ten. Although i would see how 2 units of ten could chaff up anything thats made it down the flank Double edged sword really?
Any pointers there?


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Ok chaps, i have re-written the list and it looks like this:

LORDS

Supreme Sorceress
+Lvl4
+CoT
+pegasus
+Obsidian Trinket
+Scroll
335 points

HEROES

Master
+HA
+SDC
+Enchanted Shield
+Dawnstone
+BSB
+Sword of Might
155 (In with Black Guard)

CORE

5 Dark Riders
+Musician
+Shields
+RxB's
110

5 Dark Riders
+Musician
+Shields
+RxB's
110

14 Darkshards
+Musician
+SB
+Banner of eternal flame
203

14 darkshards
+musician
178

SPECIAL

28 Executioners
+Full Command
366

23 Black Guard
+Musician
+SB
+Razor Banner
410

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers
280

RARE

5 Doomfire Warlocks
125

5 Doomfire Warlocks
125

This took about 25 minutes of squeezing points out here and there. I'm happy with it, wish the BG were a little more bulked out but its all i could afford.

Also, in terms of magic, i presume Dark, Shadow and death are all suitable for this build?