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Their Weapons Are Useless: At the end of any round of combat, if a unit cannot be harmed by the opposing unit(s) currently engaged with it, the controlling player may choose to attempt to have that unit leave combat as if it had the Hit & Run special rule.

Being locked in combat with something that can't hurt you is as dumb as being locked in combat with something you can't hurt ("Our Weapons Are Useless"). Temporarily giving access to the Hit & Run rule provides a chance to break away, without guaranteeing it. Also, if a unit that CAN do harm is engaged--in a multi-unit combat, for example--this rule would not apply, since you can't turn your back on a credible threat.

I thought this already was a rule although I haven't played in a while. My understanding was that if you can't hurt it then you take an LD test at the end of combat regardless of the result (like a draw for example)

You might be thinking of 'OUR Weapons Are Useless' which allows for an ineffective unit to try to break from combat (it's a contested initiative check, as if the unit had lost combat and broken).

Your rule would make so that tarpittimg would no longer be a valid option.

Edited to remove copy of text from posting issue.

Tar Pits need a balancing factor. In the past, if a fearless unit stuck in a combat it shouldn't, it took additional wounds. That was a balancing factor. Blobs no longer take additional wounds, making them far stronger [edit: effective] than they should be, PARTICULARLY when they are locked in with a unit they can't even hope to hurt.

But that's the exact purpose of tarpits. They don't do much otherwise unlite the big stuff they're supposed to tarpit.

Yeah if anything Orks and tyranids definitely need another hit on the head from the nerf stick

I think the way it works now is much better. Having a fearless unit stuck in combat with something it can't hurt is not always a good thing. It means you can't shoot it with your big guns, and you little guys can't assault something they would be able to wipe out. Such as a dreadnaught assaulting a group of hormagaunts. Now the gaunt's can't go kill the annoying sniper scouts and your dakkarynt can't shoot the dreadnaught. There is no reason for the "take addtional wounds" rule to come back.

I'm trying to understand why you would not want to be locked in combat with a unit that can't hurt you. At that point, it's a unit simply waiting to be killed. I do think there needs to be some sort of option for either side to attempt to disengage from combat, because sometimes you need to pursue a higher priority target, but in a vacuum there's no real disadvantage to fighting a unit you can hurt but that can't hurt you.

yeah, i like 'thier guns are useless'

gives you the OPTION to disengage and hunt a better target - you could use it to stop a blob getting to/into your deployment zone/objective and then wait for your blob-killers to arrive.

its not like he's saying that it's a MANDATORY thing, right? so you could choose not to.

jobs' a good 'un!

AnFéasógMór wrote:
I'm trying to understand why you would not want to be locked in combat with a unit that can't hurt you. At that point, it's a unit simply waiting to be killed.

30 Conscripts + 1 Priest v Wraith Knight; Wraith Knight kills, at optimum, 6 models on the charge and 4 models a turn after that for 4 full game turns before getting free from combat (unless my counting is bad)--and that's if the Wraith Knight makes the charge itself. If 'average' numbers are rolled, the wraith knight hits only about 20 times in 8 rounds of combat and wounds on about 17 of those, failing to kill a unit that should, by all rights, be 'waiting to be killed' before the game ends....

Just support your wraithknight with striking scorpions and you'll chew through conscripts in no time. That's the exact purpose of tarpit - it's supposed to take out your super expensive stuff if you don't support it properly.

tarpits are there specifically to counter these unkillable godlike units.

imperial guard really need to be able to tarpit wraithknights - to give you some perspective, you need 36 heavy weapon teams with lascannons to bring down a wraithknight. it's not like we can bring ID weapons or hidden powerklaws to take them out, even with a powerfist we wound on 6's.

I would perhaps allow walkers to tankshock their way from combat, but if they don't get clear then they would still be fighting - the enemy won't just go "awww,he walked off." moving combats from dreads shouting "Shoo, Shoo!". brilliant.

My beautiful morkanaut got tarpitted in a game vs Sisters of battle. What did I do? I ran my Nob bikers into the bolter b1tches and got him out of that combat :-P Tarpitting is a useful strategy and it shouldn't get nerfed. I would like to do it with my boyz but theirs basically nothing orky thats fearless anymore unless you bring an expensive character and then why would you waste it tarpitting? furthermore all of our characters basically have S10 Init 1 from Power klaws....so we don't tarpit anything we kill it if we can get close enough.

How about a rule called, Off to find a better challenge the unit may disengage, but the unit it was in combat with gets one last extra round of attacks if one of these wounds the unit is stuck in combat allowing REEALLY Tanky hard hitting units not to be stuck in combat with hormegaunts for the rest of their lives. Because this unit is charging a fleeing unit it get charge bonuses. You may not activate this rule while the enemy champion is alive. This combination of rules allows for horde armies to get INSANE numbers of Attacks if their enemy want to find a stronger opponent. There is no restriction on a unit disengaging then being charged again by the same unit so attempting to run is really risky because you could be whittled down by charges.

personally I don't like the rule or the proposed rule. I got a dred into combat with some firewarriors. This used to mean great things for my dreanaught. He can feast on a few firewarriors a turn and is safe from firepower. Now all the firewarriors do is pass a hit and run test roll lucky and bammo - I'm taking 18 str 5's to my rear. Very dumb rule indeed.

 Xenomancers wrote:
personally I don't like the rule or the proposed rule. I got a dred into combat with some firewarriors. This used to mean great things for my dreanaught. He can feast on a few firewarriors a turn and is safe from firepower. Now all the firewarriors do is pass a hit and run test roll lucky and bammo - I'm taking 18 str 5's to my rear. Very dumb rule indeed.

Good point there, unless the dread also gets a consolidation move, otherwise its broken

Edit my text was in the quote