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So, riddle me this.....

When used against vehicles str D hits cause, quote, "a penetrating hit that causes it to lose D3 hull points instead of 1."

And when you compare this rule to the ramshackle rule that says penetrating hits get downgraded to a glance - what happens?

This came up in-game once, amazingly, versus a trukk, and my opponent thought instead of a pen that causes D3 glances, it just does D3 glances. This interpretation was shared with some others.

But, strictly speaking, I don't think that's correct. Again, the D hit causes a penetrating hit that does X. Ramshackle downgrades a pen to a glance. And glancing blows deal 1 hull point of damage. So I don't see why a successful ramshackle (or serpent shield) wouldn't downgrade a penetrating hit of any type, regardless of what it does or effects it causes, to a humble glancing blow, as defined by the rulebook.

But I'm biased, naturally. And it didn't matter as I got absolutely crushed that game anyways, and it's not often that people target my trukks with str D weapons and even LESS often they make their ramshackle. But I'm still curious to know what correct answer would be.

And I'll be the first to admit that it seems dangerously cheesy to argue that a trukk can shrug off D hits like that with only suffering a glance, but that's what the rules say, near as I can figure.

And to be extra technical, what if the str D hit rolled a 6 on the damage chart? TECHNICALLY, ramshackle isn't a saving throw, though I don't think I could make a straight-faced argument for that in an actual game.

From what I gather from your interpretation, I'm in agreement.

It's only one penetrating hit (that would cause D3 pens if not saved) so you Ramshackle/Serpent Shield once.

about your extra technical point, again I agree. That ram is gone either way though, either through glance or a fiery explosion

Sounds like yout mate has a solid interpretation:

You roll up three pens, that becomes three glances. Don't really see what the mystery is.

 goblinzz wrote:
Sounds like yout mate has a solid interpretation:

You roll up three pens, that becomes three glances. Don't really see what the mystery is.

It's not 3 pens. It's a single pen that does 3 Hull Points.

Considering how much they nerf hammered Ramshackle, I would say that Ramshackle works against everything at any point in time including vortex and also if you hit a LOW with a trukk it should explode and kill everything within 48 inches :-P

rigeld2 wrote:

 goblinzz wrote:
Sounds like yout mate has a solid interpretation:

You roll up three pens, that becomes three glances. Don't really see what the mystery is.

It's not 3 pens. It's a single pen that does 3 Hull Points.

Yeah, that's the issue - and my thought is that by nullifying the single pen (that causes D3 hull points), you also nullify that part that causes D3 hull points - the single penetrating hit and any and all subsequent effects (rolling on the damage chart and the D3 hull points) are thrown right out the window and turned into a glancing blow.

But some are saying that even after the successful ramshackle, the D3 hull points stipulation still carries over, and I don't see why.

lol. The mental picture is hilarious.

Giant cannon that can wreck regiments fires a beam wider than a building at a small transport and.....the bumper falls off.

It's a little vague,

But a single Pen (that causes D3 Hull points) reduced to a single Glance (that causes D3 Hull points) is how my group plays it.

Only the pen is effected, not any additional effects. Wave Serpents are hideous enough already...

You don't get the shield when the hits are on rear Av right? So imperial knights cc D attacks are not getting reduced to a glance?

 grendel083 wrote:
It's a little vague,

But a single Pen (that causes D3 Hull points) reduced to a single Glance (that causes D3 Hull points) is how my group plays it.

Only the pen is effected, not any additional effects. Wave Serpents are hideous enough already...

To be 100% honest, this is what seems most fair and reasonable to me. To argue that a stompa-cracking energy blast the size of a leman russ just knocking a trukk's bumper off is a bit silly.

But in terms of pure RAW.......what carries over the extra D3 hull points? You say additional effects aren't effected, but why? It is the penetrating hit that's causing D3 extra hull points of damage, and once the serpent shield / ramshackle goes off, it's no longer a penetrating of any kind, presumably with no further effects of a penetrating hit of any kind. It's a glance.

I mean, to say it's no longer a pen but the effects of the pen aren't changed sounds like you could argue for still rolling on the vehicle damage chart. I mean, if the effects of the pen (such as the D3 hull points) is carried over, why not the vehicle damage chart too?

To me, at least, it's either a penetrating hit that causes D3 hull points + a roll on the damage chart, or it's a glance, which as defined by the BRB, causes 1 hull point of damage. There's no such thing as a glance that causes D3 hull points. At least from a purely rules-lawyer (and everyone loves them) standpoint.

We play it as reduced to D3 'glances' too.

However, it never came into play for me, as the only time my Wave Serpent was hit with D it got sixed out.... Nothing to debate there!