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This has come up in my games a lot lately. Do grots provide cover for walkers behind them? A whole squad of them is not enough to cover 25% of a Gorkanaut. But as the cover rules state you are shooting through another unit.

From the Vehicles and Cover - Obscured Targets section in the BRB.

Vehicles and Cover wrote:At least 25% of the facing of the vehicle that is being targeted (its front, side or rear) needs to be hidden by intervening terrain or models from the point of view of the firer for the vehicle to be in cover.

How tall are grot models? Are they tall enough to provide 25% cover for a Battle Wagon? A Deff Dread? A Killa Kan?

No they are less than an inch tall



Automatically Appended Next Post:
So walkers act as a vehicle when it comes to cover?

 Makinit wrote:
So walkers act as a vehicle when it comes to cover?

Of course, Walkers ARE vehicles.

 Makinit wrote:
So walkers act as a vehicle when it comes to cover?

Yes, because they are Vehicles. They only follow the rules for Infantry where specifically mentioned in their rules (moving, charging and assaults).

No, they do not, except perhaps against other Grots that are standing very close to them....

And, for taller models shooting at the Gorkanauts, they are firing OVER the Grots, not through them.

If, in this case, the Gorkanaut is not 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one 'shooter', it does not get a cover save.

Perhaps the Grots can be put on stilts?

Time to give all the grots really tall banners Thanks for clarifying guys.

 Makinit wrote:
Time to give all the grots really tall banners Thanks for clarifying guys.

While I'm sure that may have been a joke, banners are not part of the model so they won't provide cover.
Also, that'd be modelling for advantage if they did count.

 Ond Angel wrote:

 Makinit wrote:
Time to give all the grots really tall banners Thanks for clarifying guys.

While I'm sure that may have been a joke, banners are not part of the model so they won't provide cover.

That's wrong. While banners don't count for if you can see that specific model, cover is still determined by obscurement of TLoS so a banner can obscure to other models

I would not count them unless they where originally part of the model. Otherwise you are modeling for advantage. I would count the Waagh banner if I had paid the points for it.

CrownAxe wrote:

 Ond Angel wrote:

 Makinit wrote:
Time to give all the grots really tall banners Thanks for clarifying guys.

While I'm sure that may have been a joke, banners are not part of the model so they won't provide cover.

That's wrong. While banners don't count for if you can see that specific model, cover is still determined by obscurement of TLoS so a banner can obscure to other models

Ah, my mistake.

Makinit wrote:I would not count them unless they where originally part of the model. Otherwise you are modeling for advantage. I would count the Waagh banner if I had paid the points for it.

That's fair enough.

Grots could provide cover to anything as long as they covered 25% from the firers perspective. You have to get down and look from the models perspective.

 Makinit wrote:
I would not count them unless they where originally part of the model. Otherwise you are modeling for advantage. I would count the Waagh banner if I had paid the points for it.

yeah, i'd accept that it got cover save if a WAAAGH banner covered more than 25% of it.

i'd want the grot carrying it to be suitably hilariously staggered undr the weight of said banner, mind

Do the legs of a Triarch Stalker count as "part of the model" for purposes of 25% concealment?

Alcibiades wrote:
Do the legs of a Triarch Stalker count as "part of the model" for purposes of 25% concealment?

Yes as they are part of the Hull

Wait...MCs have no such rule do they? Are the rules pro wraithknight being blocked by a grot but anti gorkanaut being blocked?

FratHammer wrote:
Wait...MCs have no such rule do they? Are the rules pro wraithknight being blocked by a grot but anti gorkanaut being blocked?

Sounds like this is the case. No love for walkers.

 Makinit wrote:
Time to give all the grots really tall banners Thanks for clarifying guys.

nah, just get those decorative bases that add a 1/2"

and keep the gorkanaut on it's flat base

FratHammer wrote:
Wait...MCs have no such rule do they? Are the rules pro wraithknight being blocked by a grot but anti gorkanaut being blocked?

Only if you are shooting through the unit of Grots, and not if you are able to fire over the unit of Grots.

When shooting through other units at a non-vehicle target unit there's no requirement for at least 25% obscurement, however this also does not count if you are simply shooting over the the unit at the non-vehicle target.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

FratHammer wrote:
Wait...MCs have no such rule do they? Are the rules pro wraithknight being blocked by a grot but anti gorkanaut being blocked?

Only if you are shooting through the unit of Grots, and not if you are able to fire over the unit of Grots.

When shooting through other units at a non-vehicle target unit there's no requirement for at least 25% obscurement, however this also does not count if you are simply shooting over the the unit at the non-vehicle target.

They'd only count as shooting over if the shooter was on an elevated position right?

sm3g wrote:
They'd only count as shooting over if the shooter was on an elevated position right?

That's a specific example given in the rules description, yes.

Based on that grots would not provide cover for anyone. My boyz gunz are above the grots heads.

Just another reason to never take grots

BossMakk wrote:
Just another reason to never take grots

Or a reason to make a board with a Gorkanaut pit in it, conveniently deep enough to allow the nearby grots to provide cover?

I'm just saying--if you can't have a reason to take grots, why even play orks? Who doesn't love murdering the little blighters?