Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

All questions below assume I'm discussing the Nightbringers Gaze of Death special ability.
"Gaze of Death: In its shooting phase, in addition to using powers of the C'tan, this model can target one non-vehicle enemy unit within 12" to which it has line of sight. The unit suffers wounds equal to 3D6 minus its leadership, resolved at AP2 and with the ignores cover special rule. If at least one unsaved wound is inflicted, the C'tan shard of the nightbringer immediately regains one wound lost earlier in the battle."

Can this attack be used against a different unit than the one that was shot at with Ctan powers?
Does the shooting phase still count as occurring for a model locked in combat?
-If so, does that mean that a Ctan locked in combat can use the gaze of death ability in the following manner:
--- Against the unit it is locked in combat with?
--- While locked in combat but against another unit it is not locked in combat with but are within range?
--- Against units that are already locked in combat with another friendly unit?
This special ability does not have a weapon profile and does not use Ballistics skill so is it considered a shooting attack?

How would you handle an argument that this ability is a basically a modified psychic shriek and that RAI, this attack can only be used in a similar manner? My opponent went as far as to say that not using this ability in a manner like psychic shriek is win at all cost cheese.

Thoughts?

All good questions with lots of opinions on both sides of each, but really... we just don't know. Thanks for the clarity GW.

The way I see it is that it is just a special rule not a wargear, not a witchfire, not a shooting weapon, that the C'tan shard has.

Units locked in combat don't magicaly skip the shooting phase they are just unable to shoot. The gaze of death isn't a shooting attack.

As far as I, and others can tell it can be used during the shooting phase even if the C'tan is locked in CC.

In short yes to all your questions. As for WAAC if one is using a C'tan shard you are far from a waac player.

It would be nice for GW to clear up the confusion on it.

Yeah, this definitely seems like it suffer none of the restrictions on shooting and CC. How brutal.

Please can I add to the questions; how does gaze work when used against a unit locked in combat with the gazing c'tan, where the c'tan is in a challenge with a character from that enemy unit? Do look out sir, argh! rules apply for example.

look out sir can still be taken from the gaze of death since wounds are still allocated The wounds would be allocated as normal, closest model out.

Yeah, the only restrictions are range and line of sight.

In your shooting phase, as long as the target is within 12" and line of sight you may do it.

Regardless of CC/invisibility/swooping.
It is not a shooting attack, and so, doesn't follow the restrictions of shooting attacks.

As long as they are in range and line of sight, they are an eligible target.

The rules are actually quite clear on this: it is not a shooting weapon, therefore none of the restrictions on shooting weapons applies to it. All the "shooting phase" bit does is establish timing

Thanks for the feedback so far.

What's the consensus of the last part of the ability "If at least one unsaved wound is inflicted, the C'tan shard of the nightbringer immediately regains one wound lost earlier in the battle."

Is only 1 wound regained if 1 wound is unsaved?
What if you inflict multiple unsaved wounds, do you get that many wounds back?

Thanks again.

You just get one wound back regardless of how man wounds are inflicted.

If at least 1 unsaved is inflicted.
So how many did you inflict? 5?
so at least 1? .
Great, you get 1 wound back

Oberron wrote:
look out sir can still be taken from the gaze of death since wounds are still allocated The wounds would be allocated as normal, closest model out.

Even if the c'tan and closest model are involved in a challenge? That's the issue. If it's not a shooting attack then there isn't even a way to allocate wounds let alone take Look Out Sir Argh! reallocations for them. Nothing to say the challenge rules for allocating wounds shouldn't be used.

Yes. Even if a challenge
. Imagine a barrage scattered onto the combat. Sergeant is closest, but in a challenge, allocate and LoS as applicable, AFAIK challenges are only relevant for the assault phase.

It doesnt have to be a shooting attack to allocate wounds. Are vehicles exploding considered a shooting attack? (I actually don;t know)

Crash and burn? they all inflict wounds, without having to be a shooting attack.

Allocate to closest model, proceed with steps for wound allocation.

harkequin wrote:
Yes. Even if a challenge
. Imagine a barrage scattered onto the combat. Sergeant is closest, but in a challenge, allocate and LoS as applicable, AFAIK challenges are only relevant for the assault phase.

It doesnt have to be a shooting attack to allocate wounds. Are vehicles exploding considered a shooting attack? (I actually don;t know)

Crash and burn? they all inflict wounds, without having to be a shooting attack.

Allocate to closest model, proceed with steps for wound allocation.

Vehicle explosions are neither CC nor shooting attacks. They are their own thing, frustratingly.

So that sort of helps here. GoD is also (frustratingly) it's own thing. Explosions dont break the game, neither does GoD, it's still easy to work with.

True, it's not game breaker, but could be important for instance when trying to kill that chaos champion in CC...?

Yes it could, so just treat it as though a vehicle exploded at the NB causing wounds to the unit, and resolve it like that. Not a shooting attack, just wounds caused from a location.