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Is anyone else kind of tired of your Battle Wagonz being nothing but stripped down transports now? The BW is supposed to be the Ork equivalent of a heavy tank, and yet its weapons out put is meh at best. Killkannons are awesome don't get me wrong, but with 24in range....your going to have to survive a turn or two of shooting before you can bring that 30pt upgrade close enough to the enemy to fire it. the other upgrades, Kannon/zzap and Lobba...those are decent, but you can't really use them if you bring a killkannon, you have to choose to either scoot forward to get in range (no shooting) or to slowly move up the board and plink away with your Kannon style weapons and the Big shootas/Rokkitz attached. And really the biggest problem is the price. with no weapons at all and no upgrades the battlewagon costs a bit less then 1/2 the price of a Land raider. When you throw on gunz and upgradaz you have a model costing about 180pts that has a lot of low powered dakka that still only has BS of 2 so......yeah. Another big problem for the poor BW was the Deff Rolla nerf with this new codex, I can't see a point in ever bringing one ever again and really that was the fun of having a BW, drive up, drop off boyz and spend the rest of the game trying to ram stuff.....HOW ORKY IS THAT! Now its, drive up, drop off the boyz and probably get blown off the board before you get to do much.

I would suggest that the Battlewagon be given access to MORE weaponry. I would really love to have a few more gunz added to this giant thing, such as KMK's or preferably making the kill kannon at least ranged 36. The armor for this thing is ok for what it is and what it does so 14/12/10 is fine. I would also like the OLD deff rollaz back, maybe give them a points increase to 10 or 15 like they already did in this current codex, I think the game designers were thinking "We need to nerf the Deff Rolla a bit, Lets nerf its abilities or give it a points increase," and then they forgot which one they were going to do and did both. Anyway, your thoughts on my orky ranting are always appreciated.....except the guys who say "L2P better" you guys can go kill yourselves :-)

I'm not super familiar with the rules difference between old and new Deff Rollaz, but other than that...

I totally support the idea that Battlewagons should get more variety of weapons. It'd make them somewhat the Orky equivalent of a Land Raider, and IMO that's pretty cool.

As an Ork through and through I do miss the old deffrolla. That said, I'm willing to admit that the old version was probably a bit TOO good; call me a devil's advocate, but I often found the deffrolla did more damage than the passengers!

They should have removed the 2nd D6 from the Deff rolla and that would have been fine.

BTW: The old rule was if I tank shocked you with a deff rolla you immediatly suffered D6 S10 hits and if you decided to death or glory you suffered another D6 S10 hits IN ADDITION to losing that specific model that death or gloried.

So it was OP but what it is now is garbage.

Its current rule is basically D3 hits ONLY IF the unit decides to death or glory. which means, nobody Death or glories it and it just gets killed the following turn by being assaulted on its AV 10 backside.


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Ohh, and the old BW was 90pts nekkid and the old Deff Rolla was 20pts. (110pts) The NEW BW is 110pts Nekkid and the Deff Rolla is like 15pts (125pts) and it lost ALL its useability (the deff rolla I mean) So for 15 more points we are getting literally 1/4th the use out of the deff rolla.

Yeah... 2D6 S10 hits for Tank Shocking and trying to Death or Glory, plus the auto-loss of the model that attempted Death or Glory... that's pretty broken.

Are the hits still S10, BTW?

In any case, I think that the Death or Glory penalties are what would have made it particularly bad, so by stripping that out we'd be at a good starting point to playtest out a good pricepoint.

Ohh crap btw its 10pts for the deff rolla now :-P

The rules for it are basically the same as a Reinforced Ram and it inflicts D3 S10 AP4 hits against hte unit that DoG when the BW Tank shocks.

Ok I'm a bit confused on it. If a unit passes it's test when tank shocked they aren't affected by the tank or BW and it drives through them. The opponant can decide to use a model to Death or Glory. If he fails the Death or Glory then the model is removed as a casualty.

Deff Rolla hands out the hits when the Death or Glory is failed. But if the thing already automatically dies then what's happening with those hits? Even though the unit passed the Tank Shock do they receive those hits?

The deff rolla rule change sums up the ork dex really.

To a lesser extent the entire ruleset. Its like that BA dread that went from having a grapple weapon that could drag enemies to "move through cover"

This is how the NEW deff rolla works. I declare a Tank shock. You roll and pass your leadership test. If you choose to get out of my way then thats it, the deff rolla has ZERO effect. If you choose to Death or Glory, then you suffer D3 S10 Ap4 hits automatically, and this hits the squad not just the idiot standing in front of my tank.

So basically its a 10point upgrade that an opposing player can negate simply by not standing in the way :-P

Take us back to 90pts, and give us rear armor 11 and I'd call the travesty they did to our rollas even.

Also, why the heck did they take our boomguns from our looted wagons away? Were we so op we needed nerfs? Was eldar so underpowered they needed buffs!?

The old Deffrolla wasn't even *that* good. It's not like 12" is exactly that long a range anyway, and it's not like the Battlewagon is basically the 40k equivalent of a stretch limo, and it's not like Death or Glory was optional, leaving the only practical effect to be the D6 hits vs Land Raiders.

Magic I think that whomever wrote the Ork codex received guidance along the lines of "Nerf hammer HOOO!!!!!!"

Theoretically If I Tank shocked a unit I was going to average 3-4 S10 AP- hits. If they passed their leadership check then I don't think anyone has ever decided to "Death or Glory" my battlewagonz because they knew it automatically meant another 3-4 S10 AP- Hits. The biggest problem was that when you did this against other vehicles....well it became the best tank hunter unit in the game. Front Armor 14 +1 for being a Tank = S8 Ram AND D6 S10 hits meant that even land raiders would shiver in their boots.

A nice hybrid option would be to keep the Old rules COMPLETELY but change it so that the Deff Rolla does D3 against Vehicles not D6. and keep AP- to make it fair.

A new model that didn't have such a tiny front armour arc would actually make the battlewagon a lot more reasonably for its points. But 110 points for an AV14/12/10 assault vehicle with 4 HPs is not half bad, it would just be nice if it came with some weapons for that price. Three or four big shootas for free would make a huge difference.

Wow...Battlewagons are THIS BAD now?

Perhps they should bring back the battlewagon rules they used in 5th edition.

Just sayin'.

In all fairness, deffrolla was not useful since 6-th due to core mechanics changes.