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2018/10/19 20:48:14
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You do not seem to remember the cost of those indirect fire units we all supposedly have access to.
Also AdMech don't have access to indirect fire outside FW so...
Good thing FW is a part of 40k then! If you don't/can't use FW, you don't belong in a thread about competitive.
I already showcased the Scorpius available to Imperium and Chaos. It's about 200 points, but it can clear the 100 points of mortars in 1.5 shooting phases, giving it plenty of time to shoot juicier targets with 6D3 S6 AP2 2D. Since it is out of LOS, and we are apparently all on the premise that means it's magically invulnerable to being shot at with direct fire, that's 4.5 rounds of pounding the gak out of things unmolested once it's done it's job.
So a 215 point unit which requires a minimum of an additional 50 points of units before it can be added to your army. Feels real cost effective against that 99 points of 9 mortars.
Yeah still looks like either the teams or the weapons are undercosted.
2018/10/19 20:52:54
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: My challenge still stands for those who claim Mortars are not broken.
Find me a better option for 100 points to clear out weak objective units over the course of a game while my remaining 1900 points draw the attention, then 9d6 bolter shots at 48" without needing LoS.
That seems like a pretty niche task. Useful, but niche. You could alter that challenge to take into account return fire and the mortar teams would probably perish a lot quicker than competitors.
The fact that you can hide Mortars without effecting their use plays a role into them being broken.
And yes its a niche use that that is the battlefield role of Mortars in the game.
You're telling me that you can't draw a single bead on NINE 60mm bases. These things are not tiny, they have the same horizontal footprint as a dreadnought FFS. Hell, even fitting 12-15 60mm bases pre-rule of three was difficult on certain deployment maps when you added in all the terrain, vehicles, and infantry. Keeping them all simultaneously out of LOS as well was a pipe dream. There should be few boards where a single turns movement does not put you into LOS of a set of three 60mm bases.
2018/10/19 21:01:17
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
All competitive discussions should only be based on GWGT rules, but that's a can of worms that is better kept closed. This discussion is one of the best examples of this. Mortars are far from OP, they are 11 point models with T3 and 5+ where the third model runs on a 5+ if you slay the other 2. They are a gifted kill point many times. They only become a problem in ITC because you can hide them out of LOS, but in a standard 40K game you will be lucky to put a single squad out of LOS, not to mention that if there is a spot like that on the table then you are giving it to a basilysk.
2018/10/19 21:04:56
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You do not seem to remember the cost of those indirect fire units we all supposedly have access to.
Also AdMech don't have access to indirect fire outside FW so...
Good thing FW is a part of 40k then! If you don't/can't use FW, you don't belong in a thread about competitive.
I already showcased the Scorpius available to Imperium and Chaos. It's about 200 points, but it can clear the 100 points of mortars in 1.5 shooting phases, giving it plenty of time to shoot juicier targets with 6D3 S6 AP2 2D. Since it is out of LOS, and we are apparently all on the premise that means it's magically invulnerable to being shot at with direct fire, that's 4.5 rounds of pounding the gak out of things unmolested once it's done it's job.
So a 215 point unit which requires a minimum of an additional 50 points of units before it can be added to your army. Feels real cost effective against that 99 points of 9 mortars.
If all you're looking at is muppetmowing, sure. Those Mortars however are going to be dramatically less effective (in both absolute and relative cost terms) against anything with more than 1 wound relative to the Scorpius.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2018/10/19 21:07:05
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You do not seem to remember the cost of those indirect fire units we all supposedly have access to.
Also AdMech don't have access to indirect fire outside FW so...
Good thing FW is a part of 40k then! If you don't/can't use FW, you don't belong in a thread about competitive.
I already showcased the Scorpius available to Imperium and Chaos. It's about 200 points, but it can clear the 100 points of mortars in 1.5 shooting phases, giving it plenty of time to shoot juicier targets with 6D3 S6 AP2 2D. Since it is out of LOS, and we are apparently all on the premise that means it's magically invulnerable to being shot at with direct fire, that's 4.5 rounds of pounding the gak out of things unmolested once it's done it's job.
So a 215 point unit which requires a minimum of an additional 50 points of units before it can be added to your army. Feels real cost effective against that 99 points of 9 mortars.
Yeah still looks like either the teams or the weapons are undercosted.
All Imperium forces have access to the same mortars and about a half dozen other indirect choices if you're so inclined. Chaos can take them without the relic requirement and a list of 3 + 3x PBC is a fething nightmare to deal with. Also, that 215 point unit will clear all 100 points of mortars in 1.5 turns AND CONTINUE MURDERING gak WITH ITS 6D3 STR6 AP2 D2 so it doesn't need to make its points back killing just mortars because it has other viable targets once its done with them, which it will be absurdly quickly. This thing straight up drops 3.5 Aggressors per round of shooting and can get a Basilisk down to mid-bracket on average dice.
Or you can use the -1 traits available to just about every army in the game and MATHEMATICALLY IGNORE THE fething MORTARS WHEN COMBINED WITH COVER.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoletta wrote: All competitive discussions should only be based on GWGT rules, but that's a can of worms that is better kept closed. This discussion is one of the best examples of this. Mortars are far from OP, they are 11 point models with T3 and 5+ where the third model runs on a 5+ if you slay the other 2. They are a gifted kill point many times. They only become a problem in ITC because you can hide them out of LOS, but in a standard 40K game you will be lucky to put a single squad out of LOS, not to mention that if there is a spot like that on the table then you are giving it to a basilysk.
THIS GUY GETS IT
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/19 21:09:49
2018/10/19 21:16:38
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: My challenge still stands for those who claim Mortars are not broken.
Find me a better option for 100 points to clear out weak objective units over the course of a game while my remaining 1900 points draw the attention, then 9d6 bolter shots at 48" without needing LoS.
That seems like a pretty niche task. Useful, but niche. You could alter that challenge to take into account return fire and the mortar teams would probably perish a lot quicker than competitors.
The fact that you can hide Mortars without effecting their use plays a role into them being broken.
And yes its a niche use that that is the battlefield role of Mortars in the game.
Return fire doesn't have to use LOS. Return fire could be a flyer. Return fire could be deep strikers in turn two, relying on the mortars not having good targets during turn 1.
As a niche use unit it's only natural that it not have many competitors in it's specialist field. For 100 points it has good light fire support, and low durability. While another unit around the same cost might have less offensive output, but better defense. Not that I'm a huge fan of whirlwinds, but they'll last longer against most return fire, have a longer range, and degrade slower.
Ordana wrote: My challenge still stands for those who claim Mortars are not broken.
Find me a better option for 100 points to clear out weak objective units over the course of a game while my remaining 1900 points draw the attention, then 9d6 bolter shots at 48" without needing LoS.
That seems like a pretty niche task. Useful, but niche. You could alter that challenge to take into account return fire and the mortar teams would probably perish a lot quicker than competitors.
The fact that you can hide Mortars without effecting their use plays a role into them being broken.
And yes its a niche use that that is the battlefield role of Mortars in the game.
Return fire doesn't have to use LOS. Return fire could be a flyer. Return fire could be deep strikers in turn two, relying on the mortars not having good targets during turn 1.
As a niche use unit it's only natural that it not have many competitors in it's specialist field. For 100 points it has good light fire support, and low durability. While another unit around the same cost might have less offensive output, but better defense. Not that I'm a huge fan of whirlwinds, but they'll last longer against most return fire, have a longer range, and degrade slower.
So a 215 point unit which requires a minimum of an additional 50 points of units before it can be added to your army.
How is 50 points of HS units even an issue?
Technically 50 points of Elites since the Scorpius is a Relic Elite, but that's even more absurd, because the Elite slot units are some of the few things that get used out of the Codex competitively anyway so you're not actually paying a 'tax' to unlock it since chances are good an Elite choice was already in your list. Company Vets/Sternguard (Nanavati and Reece's lists), Company Ancients (any list that leans on Hellblasters), and Aggressors (any Raven Guard list, even post-nerf, they still can start within double tap range of the screen line to get their job done).
2018/10/19 21:42:28
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: A whirlwind fulfills a similar role for the same cost yes, and it is more durable. But 1/3 of the damage, which is kind of a big deal.
But its an acceptable alternative if you have no other option.
You're really fixated on having an exact 1-1 analogue of mortar teams for some reason despite having an option that is more expensive, but hard counters it and can then go on to engage targets other than chaff (Scorpius) and that's ignoring the fact that if you're Imperium you have access to the same god damned mortars.
Speaking of which, for balance purposes, it's pretty apparent GW intends for 8th to be balanced between Imperium, Chaos, Tyranids, and Aeldari rather than trying to make every sub faction viable as a monofaction. Necrons, Orks, and Tau kind of get screwed in the arrangement, but it makes a lot of sense in the long run as its much easier to balance 7 factions rather than 25+. Just for example, the top 16 at BFS were 6 Imperium, 4 Aeldari, 3 Chaos, 1 Ork, 1 Nids, 1 Necron. That's still skewed toward Imperium, but all that's missing is Tau from every 'major' faction getting a shot at top table, which is loads better than it was at the start of 8th ed. I'm looking forward to Socal Open's results since it will be the first major with enough prep time to absorb the new FAQ.
2018/10/19 22:35:14
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: A whirlwind fulfills a similar role for the same cost yes, and it is more durable. But 1/3 of the damage, which is kind of a big deal.
But its an acceptable alternative if you have no other option.
Damage ratio depends on what you're shooting at, and which version of the Whirlwind. But sure, the Mortars do more damage certainly. . . but they lose lethality faster as they die.
I think in a dumb vs. match a Vengeance Launcher Whirlwind wins, actually.
Ordana wrote: My challenge still stands for those who claim Mortars are not broken.
Find me a better option for 100 points to clear out weak objective units over the course of a game while my remaining 1900 points draw the attention, then 9d6 bolter shots at 48" without needing LoS.
That seems like a pretty niche task. Useful, but niche. You could alter that challenge to take into account return fire and the mortar teams would probably perish a lot quicker than competitors.
The fact that you can hide Mortars without effecting their use plays a role into them being broken.
And yes its a niche use that that is the battlefield role of Mortars in the game.
Return fire doesn't have to use LOS. Return fire could be a flyer. Return fire could be deep strikers in turn two, relying on the mortars not having good targets during turn 1.
As a niche use unit it's only natural that it not have many competitors in it's specialist field. For 100 points it has good light fire support, and low durability. While another unit around the same cost might have less offensive output, but better defense. Not that I'm a huge fan of whirlwinds, but they'll last longer against most return fire, have a longer range, and degrade slower.
Ordana wrote: A whirlwind fulfills a similar role for the same cost yes, and it is more durable. But 1/3 of the damage, which is kind of a big deal.
But its an acceptable alternative if you have no other option.
Damage ratio depends on what you're shooting at, and which version of the Whirlwind. But sure, the Mortars do more damage certainly. . . but they lose lethality faster as they die.
I think in a dumb vs. match a Vengeance Launcher Whirlwind wins, actually.
I was using the Castellan since the goal is shooting infantry that tend to be 1 wound. Funny enough it doesn't matter much if your shooting at GEQ, MEQ or TEQ or even a tank, the ratio in damage remains roughly the same until your shooting at a Knight.
And I would hope Mortars, an anti infantry weapon, would lose against a 2 damage weapon on a Vehicle...
3x the damage is not to be underestimated. If the mortars shoot once (highly likely) it will take 3 turns to do the same with a Whirlwind. If some mortars survive to shoot turn 2 (again, not unlikely) the Whirlwind will not catch up until turn 4-6. By which time the battle has probably been decided.
Being able to remove a squad from an objective in 1 turn as opposed to even 2 can have a noticeable effect on a games score.
2018/10/19 23:22:12
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Assuming Cadians, for the reroll of 1s, you have 31.5 shots.
63/2 shots
147/8 hits, or 18.38
Against fellow Guardsmen, that's...
49/4 wounds
49/6 dead, or 8.17
So yeah, morale would wipe a squad of Guardsmen. Assuming they don't Insane Bravery it.
Probably the next best target is Kabalites, which take only 6.81 casualties, which IS enough to wipe a min squad. But who uses Kabs for backline sitting? That's a Wrack job! Kabs sit in Venoms and Raiders.
What about Ad Mech? Well, even if they're not Stygies, they still take only 6.13 casualties, so enough to wipe a min squad... Out of cover. Plop them in cover or use Shroudpsalm, and you get only 4.08 dead. Maybe morale wipes them, maybe it doesn't.
And yeah, they might do better than a Whirlwind. Is the Whirlwind considered anything above trash, though? Again-it's been established SPACE MARINES SUCK. Compare to something that we actually WANT to balance against.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/10/19 23:25:20
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: A whirlwind fulfills a similar role for the same cost yes, and it is more durable. But 1/3 of the damage, which is kind of a big deal.
But its an acceptable alternative if you have no other option.
You're really fixated on having an exact 1-1 analogue of mortar teams for some reason despite having an option that is more expensive, but hard counters it and can then go on to engage targets other than chaff (Scorpius) and that's ignoring the fact that if you're Imperium you have access to the same god damned mortars.
I already explained to you that FW is often not allowed in my region.
Secondly I am Imperium and I use mortars. That doesnt mean I can't complain about how broken they are, because every time I look around to see if there is a viable alternative to my Guard detachment the answer is 'hell no'.
Thirdly I'm 'stuck' on a 1:1 comparison because of my own experience and situation. I run a highly optimized list that has no points to spare. I literally could not fit in a Scorpius without dramatically altering the entire list.
Assuming Cadians, for the reroll of 1s, you have 31.5 shots.
63/2 shots
147/8 hits, or 18.38
Against fellow Guardsmen, that's...
49/4 wounds
49/6 dead, or 8.17
So yeah, morale would wipe a squad of Guardsmen. Assuming they don't Insane Bravery it.
Probably the next best target is Kabalites, which take only 6.81 casualties, which IS enough to wipe a min squad. But who uses Kabs for backline sitting? That's a Wrack job! Kabs sit in Venoms and Raiders.
What about Ad Mech? Well, even if they're not Stygies, they still take only 6.13 casualties, so enough to wipe a min squad... Out of cover. Plop them in cover or use Shroudpsalm, and you get only 4.08 dead. Maybe morale wipes them, maybe it doesn't.
And yeah, they might do better than a Whirlwind. Is the Whirlwind considered anything above trash, though? Again-it's been established SPACE MARINES SUCK. Compare to something that we actually WANT to balance against.
Feel free to offer an alternative unit to the Mortar to compare against. I don't particularly like running a Guard detachment, I don't like painting Guardsman but when your working with small amounts of room where points efficiency matters there is nothing that can compete with them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/19 23:28:58
2018/10/19 23:44:45
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: A whirlwind fulfills a similar role for the same cost yes, and it is more durable. But 1/3 of the damage, which is kind of a big deal.
But its an acceptable alternative if you have no other option.
You're really fixated on having an exact 1-1 analogue of mortar teams for some reason despite having an option that is more expensive, but hard counters it and can then go on to engage targets other than chaff (Scorpius) and that's ignoring the fact that if you're Imperium you have access to the same god damned mortars.
I already explained to you that FW is often not allowed in my region.
Secondly I am Imperium and I use mortars. That doesnt mean I can't complain about how broken they are, because every time I look around to see if there is a viable alternative to my Guard detachment the answer is 'hell no'.
Thirdly I'm 'stuck' on a 1:1 comparison because of my own experience and situation. I run a highly optimized list that has no points to spare. I literally could not fit in a Scorpius without dramatically altering the entire list.
Assuming Cadians, for the reroll of 1s, you have 31.5 shots.
63/2 shots
147/8 hits, or 18.38
Against fellow Guardsmen, that's...
49/4 wounds
49/6 dead, or 8.17
So yeah, morale would wipe a squad of Guardsmen. Assuming they don't Insane Bravery it.
Probably the next best target is Kabalites, which take only 6.81 casualties, which IS enough to wipe a min squad. But who uses Kabs for backline sitting? That's a Wrack job! Kabs sit in Venoms and Raiders.
What about Ad Mech? Well, even if they're not Stygies, they still take only 6.13 casualties, so enough to wipe a min squad... Out of cover. Plop them in cover or use Shroudpsalm, and you get only 4.08 dead. Maybe morale wipes them, maybe it doesn't.
And yeah, they might do better than a Whirlwind. Is the Whirlwind considered anything above trash, though? Again-it's been established SPACE MARINES SUCK. Compare to something that we actually WANT to balance against.
Feel free to offer an alternative unit to the Mortar to compare against. I don't particularly like running a Guard detachment, I don't like painting Guardsman but when your working with small amounts of room where points efficiency matters there is nothing that can compete with them.
Sorry, but just about every major event format outside the EU, to include those in the country that makes the game, allows FW. It's not just me being focused on the US.
You're also not taking that Guard detachment for the mortars, you're bringing 8 objective scoring units and 5 CP. Let's be honest about which parts of that detachment are the actual reason you're taking the guardsmen, especially since your list already has 120 bolter shots that hit on 2's, rerolling 1's.
But yes, in the context of your list, there is probably not a better use of 100 points than 3 mortar HWS. But acting like the mortars are the lynchpin of that list and are the thing that is breaking your opponent's back is being disingenuous at best.
2018/10/20 01:36:16
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Tyel wrote: A Cadian spearhead sets you back 129 points. Oh noes.
And an entire detachment.
If you want to take more units make it a batallion. This isnt a meaningful limitation.
If you add troops then you want it Catachan for that +1 Str on troops.
Let's not downplay it, bringing cadian mortars has an opportunity cost. A small one that's for sure, but since you are doing it to bring a 100 point light support unit, then even a small cost becomes relatively huge.
Mortars could use a couple of points more on the weapon, but even like this it's not like they are breaking anything.
2018/10/20 09:26:00
Subject: Re:Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Ordana wrote: My challenge still stands for those who claim Mortars are not broken.
Find me a better option for 100 points to clear out weak objective units over the course of a game while my remaining 1900 points draw the attention, then 9d6 bolter shots at 48" without needing LoS.
9 mortars costs 99 points.
That is 18 T3 5+ wounds that can shoot and average of 31.5 bolter shots from outside of LOS at a BS of 4+.
9 scouts with bolters cost the same amount. That is 9 T4 4+ wounds that can shoot 18 bolter shots within LOS at a BS of 3+.
31.5 bolter shots at BS4+ is 15.75 hits. 18 bolter shots at BS 3+ is 12 hits. On average.
Scouts getting shot at with 20 lasgun shots take 1.6 wounds on average, while mortars take 3.33 wounds. Taking into account number of wounds... they have roughly the same survivability per point against small arms fire. (Scouts are technically better due to morale).
Conclusion: A trio of mortar HWS can hit 2.75 more bolter shots per turn than the equivalent points of scouts. They have comparable survivability with scout scout squads vs small arms fire. The mortars can hit targets outside of LOS at a range of 48", while scouts trade that range for being much better in melee, having better morale (which gives them more staying power across the board), more mobile (no heavy weapon penalty on movement), and having a wider array of wargear options that opens up different tactics. I'd say mortars are better, but not by an amount I would say is "gamebreaking".
So there you have it... mortars are slightly better than the equivalent amount of points of light infantry from one of the worst codices in the game.
You are right, this is a huge balance issue that must be addressed immediately.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2018/10/20 09:41:13
2018/10/20 09:58:53
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
So Mortars do about 30% more damage in your scenario which is optimised for the scouts. Outside 12" they do... 160% more damage. Also with a 48" range and ignoring LOS.
2018/10/20 11:18:13
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Tyel wrote: So Mortars do about 30% more damage in your scenario which is optimised for the scouts. Outside 12" they do... 160% more damage. Also with a 48" range and ignoring LOS.
Scouts' board control more than makes up for that long range damage gap. It's almost like utility abilities make stupid comparisons like this an exercise in futility.
2018/10/20 21:11:17
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Tyel wrote: So Mortars do about 30% more damage in your scenario which is optimised for the scouts. Outside 12" they do... 160% more damage. Also with a 48" range and ignoring LOS.
While technically correct, this is misleading. 30% more damage is an extra 2.75 bolter hits. That is an extra dead GEQ per turn. That is not a big of a gap in firepower as you are making it seem.
I still stand by the comparison. 3 HWS squads of mortars is basically a 9/10 man scout squad that is able to stay outside of LOS and shoot at 48" range. I can see this maybe being a problem at sub 1K point levels (where it is impossible anyway due to rule of 3 scaling), but if your 2k list can't deal with this then it wasn't going to be winning any tournaments anyway.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/10/20 21:17:03
2018/10/21 12:18:01
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Tyel wrote: So Mortars do about 30% more damage in your scenario which is optimised for the scouts. Outside 12" they do... 160% more damage. Also with a 48" range and ignoring LOS.
While technically correct, this is misleading. 30% more damage is an extra 2.75 bolter hits. That is an extra dead GEQ per turn. That is not a big of a gap in firepower as you are making it seem.
I still stand by the comparison. 3 HWS squads of mortars is basically a 9/10 man scout squad that is able to stay outside of LOS and shoot at 48" range. I can see this maybe being a problem at sub 1K point levels (where it is impossible anyway due to rule of 3 scaling), but if your 2k list can't deal with this then it wasn't going to be winning any tournaments anyway.
I think you are kidding yourself if you think 9 scouts are as useful as 9 mortars - and I suspect you know this.
Still I don't think 9 mortars are breaking the game - but its indicative of a theme.
"Okay mortars are a bit (a lot) better than comparable units. Eh, its fine."
"Okay guardsmen are harder to kill for the points than comparable units, but its fine.
"Also with orders and regiment tactics they do quite a more damage than comparable units for their points too. But eh, its fine."
"Also we have really cheap and useful HQs, so there is almost no tax in our detachments. But eh, its fine."
"Just about everything we have is so cheap and useful that accumulating CPs via brigades and batallions has no real reduction in effectiveness, but eh, its fine".
At some point - its not fine. Its just "better".
The thing that is odd is that Guard have been consistently too good since their codex dropped, and yet people defend them to the hilt.
By contrast very few people leak to the defend the obnoxious elements of say Eldar or Chaos.
I mean I mainly play DE with some soup dabbling. I can tell you 15 point dissies are overpowered. I guess I could do your mortar defense here "oh they are not that bad, and I only get 3" but they are just obviously better than most comparable units in other factions. I can tell you going 5++ to 4++ "for free" on covens units is overpowered. My fear is that Covens stuff will just get a points hike, making the 4++ even more mandatory, because thats bad design, but I wouldn't be surprised. Kabalites could go to 7 points - but they are really incidental to a DE army. I am not convinced paying an extra 15-25 points is going to break the bank or meaningfully alter the effectiveness of grabbing objectives or sniping things when flying around in a venom.
Eldar will hopefully see Shining Spears get a hike - possibly a slight upward movement on Wave Serpents (again, not obnoxious but obviously better than comparable units) and potentially a look at things like Doom - but the way powers work as a probabilistic all or nothing makes them hard to balance.
Is anyone going to stand up and say impacting these obviously good units is going to make them unplayable trash? I doubt it.
2018/10/21 14:06:50
Subject: Post FAQ Prediction - Astra Militarum Will Continue To Be Blamed
Tyel wrote: So Mortars do about 30% more damage in your scenario which is optimised for the scouts. Outside 12" they do... 160% more damage. Also with a 48" range and ignoring LOS.
Scouts' board control more than makes up for that long range damage gap. It's almost like utility abilities make stupid comparisons like this an exercise in futility.
Scouts dont give board control. They provide expensive, easily killed targets to your opponent.
