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Hello fellow dakkanauts. So until recently my experience with the actual tabletop battle side of Warhammer 40k has been with friends reluctantly recruited as my sparring partner and a semi-regular home game with a pair of friends, both of which inclined me more towards a relaxed feel towards army building. Recently I moved to a new apartment with my wife and found it harder and harder to link up with my two friends who also play in order to get my fix of the good ol' sci-fi ultra violence (table-top edition).

But good news! There's a local gaming store a short jaunt down the street, and after popping my head in on their Warhammer 40k nights a couple of times, I feel confident enough to bring my troops to the table and try my hand at a pick up game. This being said, I know from my perusal of this site and my many conversations with a good friend of mine (who plays on a weekly basis at the store near his home) that the more relaxed, do-as-you-please sort of army building will lead me towards frustration and inevitable defeat. I was general fairly effective in my choices in my previous home game circle but would prefer not to *completely* embarrass myself during my first game.

Whew. That was a bit of a long winded introduction, so on to the list! I'll post up points values and a general strategy for why I picked what I did. All constructive criticism is welcome, and please, don't pull any punches. I want to modify and improve this as well as I can before next week.

Astra Militarum (1286 points)

No Force Slot 125 points

Ministorum Priest x2 (50)
Primaris Psyker, ML 2 (75)

Headquarters 106 points

Company Command Squad (106)
Company Commander with Camo Gear (10)
Camo Gear for Veterans (8)
Master of Ordnance (20)
Veteran with Sniper Rifle x4 (8)

Troops 635 points

Infantry Platoon (481)
Platoon Command Squad (51)
Platoon Commander with Bolter (1)
Guardsman with Vox-Caster (5)
Guardsman with Grenade Launcher x3 (15)

Infantry Squad (70)
Sergeant with Melta Bombs (5)
Guardsman with Vox-Caster (5)
Autocannon Team (10)

Infantry Squad (65)
Sergeant with Melta Bombs (5)
Autocannon Team (10)

Infantry Squad (75)
Sergeant with Melta Bombs (5)
Guardsman with Vox-Caster (5)
Missile Launcher Team (10)

Infantry Squad (70)
Sergeant with Melta Bombs (5)
Missile Launcher Team (10)

Heavy Weapon Squad (105)
Lascannon Team x3

Veteran Squad (77)
Forward Sentries (10)
Veteran with Sniper Rifle x3 (6)

Veteran Squad (77)
Forward Sentries (10)
Veteran with Sniper Rifle x3 (6)

Heavy Support 420 points

Leman Russ Squadron (185)
Executioner with Plasma Cannon Sponsons

Manticore Battery (170)

Wyvern Battery (65)

Inquisition 494 points

Headquarters (220)
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with Terminator Armor, Psycannon, and Pysker Upgrade (110)
Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with Terminator Armor, Psycannon, and Pysker Upgrade (110)

Elites

Henchman Warband (137)
Acolyte with Laspistol and Bolter x7 (35)
Acolyte with Laspistol and Plasmagunx3 (42)
Chimera with Heavy Bolter and Psybolt Ammunition (60)

Henchman Warband (137)
Acolyte with Laspistol and Bolter x7 (35)
Acolyte with Laspistol and Plasmagunx3 (42)
Chimera with Heavy Bolter and Psybolt Ammunition (60)

Fortifications 70 points
Aegis Defense Line with Ammunition Dump (70)


My general plan of attack with deployment is to place the Aegis in a long unbroken line. The Veteran Squads with Forward Sentries would sit on either end of the line as a form of bubble wrap and semi-decent long range deterrent that without ignore cover would be very hard to dislodge. The company command squad sits in the center along with the Lascannon HWS next to the ammunition dump to take advantage of the re-rolls. The astropath stays with them to throw Prescience around where it is most needed, generally either on the Manticore to shred blobbed up infantry or the HWS along with Tank Hunters to annihilate a high priority armor unit.

The Infantry Squads would be blobbed into two 20 man groups with a priest each to stiffen the line, made to advance up the battlefield in order to take objectives and draw enemy attention. I'm not sure if I like the idea of each blob having two heavy weapons or if I should move towards special weapons instead to put more guardsmen on the field to tank hits (not to mention make them a little more mobile, the heavy weapons tend to slow the blobs down). But that's one of the things I want community input on.The Platoon Command Squad follows in order-range of the blobs to give them utility and mobility.

The Manticore and Wyvern are taken for some artillery dakka, for obvious reasons,

Another thing I'm not terribly sold on is the Inquisitors riding along with the Acolyte squads in the Chimeras, but the more I thought about it the more I liked it. A pair of AV12 transports, each with six shots of Heavy Bolter at S6 and AP4, toting 6 S7 AP2 Shots and 4 S7 AP4 Rending shots out of their hatches? Color me intrigued. The Inquisitors also give each squad a bit of staying power in case their transport gets popped, the Stubborn LD10 and Terminator Armor giving a weight to each group.

I chose to bring the Executioner entirely for Anti-MEQ duty. Also... moar plasma dakka is just fun. The Executioner might not be the most reliable Russ out there but its certainly my favorite.

Bump for justice.

Not a guard player but I like it man. I don't see many lists with sniper rifles, especially on vets. All I see is melta/plasma vets in chimeras/allied DPs, vendettas lol I like the double blob idea but ya, I'd ditch the heavies. Maybe some flamers to blunt a charge? If you could find a way to get both blobs to 30 guys, then you're in business. 30 fearless guardsmen take FOREVER to kill lol I play Eldar (not a dousche, just like the play style) and It took 3 turns of shooting to kill off a 50 man blob, and that's with a 5 scat bike squad, dark reapers, a fire prism AND dire avengers pounding them every turn. Now, they will die in droves, but that takes the heat off the inquisition squads, which is the goal. Win for you.

I might suggest dropping the executioner (if it's your fav, then keep it) for 2 more wyverns. Having 3 just obliterates EVERYTHING. Doesn't matter if it's marines, guard, tau, eldar, dark eldar - everything dies to all those templates with shred. The maticore is solid too.

I might also drop the melta bombs on the guard srg's too. If they are having to charge vehicles, I think something went wrong. In a unit of 31, he's your ONLY attack on the rear armor of a vehicle, even a trukk. I feel the s3 pain, believe me...

Hope that helps a bit man, my 2 cents.

Thanks for the input!

I would absolutely *love* to be able to bring 3 Wyverns, but I'm limited by the number of models that I can bring to the table. Right now I don't even have one (though, after experimenting with it and doing some research online I've bumped down all of my other new purchases to make the Wyvern my priority) so I'll have to proxy one of my Space Marine Rhinos for it. That is, assuming my opponent is alright with that. I'd love to swing points for a Manticore, those things wreck shop. But again, I don't yet own one.

I liked the idea of Melta Bombs on the Sergeants just in case they get charged by a MC so they can hide away until its time to jump in and blast them to pieces with a well placed bomb. But I see your point. I'll have to play around with the points.

The Heavy Weapons Teams are probably going to go. I think the idea of nabbing a few flamers is a great option and if I can swing it I'll also bump the blobs to 30 troopers but I'm unsure where I'm going to find the points. The other issue that I'm concerned with dropping the Heavy Weapons Teams from the blobs is severely reducing my ability to take on armor. Sure my triple lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad with Prescience and Tank Hunters is a scary thing and will likely strike down anything short of a super heavy in a single turn of shooting, but if they get taken out I lose all of my anti-heavy armor capacity.

The Chimera and the Inquisition squads will be very effective against light armor (6 S6 shots from the transport, 3-6 plasma rounds and 4 Rending S7 shots out of the hatch? Heck yeah) but anything higher than Armor 13 isn't really threatened by them. The Inquisitors themselves would be able to pop the tanks with their Thunder Hammers, but sacrificing a turn of shooting for that?

I hear ya man, though remember melta bombs don't work against MC's or GMC (think nids then WK's). Only tanks for those lovely spheres of melta death. I'd say manticore and wyvern should be your priorities too, yes. If you are a podcast listener, The Southern State of 40k has 2 guys who play guard as the hosts so listening to their podcast might give you some ideas. They're also hilarious! Bonus.

*focus* Now, in regards to your anti-armor, I might suggest losing the sniper rifles for either meltas or plasma on the CCS and losing the GL's on the PCS for meltas or plasmas. Now, this will make it necessary to get closer to the enemy, which might not be the best plan - BUT it helps with you anti tank problem. You can also outfit your vets with meltas too (a very common loadout). If you have chimeras that will provide a nice bunker for your meltas and plasmas (they have 5 fire points right? Including the lasrifle arrays?).

That's my 2 cents man, hope it was helpful!

I would second the replacement of sniper rifles on the vets. 3 shots per turn = 1.5 hits = roughly 1 wound? Not a great investment for causing a single wound on infantry to MC. Melta and Plasma vets are always solid, much more threatening to most units.

I love me some Manticores but they can get very spendy very fast. They're what, like 175pts or so? (no book in front of me) Plus still a squishy AV11 vehicle prone to deep strikers and the like.

The Inquisitorial Henchmen sound awesome, Psybolts are super fun with the dual Chimera HB. Though do you plan on putting the Inquisitors in the Chimera with them? Kind of wasting their potential I would feel. They do well if they can go smash faces with some buddies and roll on Biomancy.

That is a lot of boots on the ground. Sounds fun.

that being said, only one Russ..at this size of game it will be drawing all of the AT fire power every turn, therefore not lasting long at all.

As for the sniper vs melta/plasma People always say go melta or plasma for more reliable damage output. I like them all snipers have a place, and are dirt cheap.

Heavy weapons squads are rather expensive and not reliable or durable enough nowadays. I know a unit of three lascannons is really tempting but three shots hitting 50% of the time for 105 pts is overpriced in my book.

If youre concerned about heavy weapons slowing your blobs down, move them over to your camo vets w/o heavies.

Also note Chimeras now only have 2 fire points. So not all that dakka will be coming out of the hatch anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You also have 7 squads of guys and only 3 orders to issue each turn, I would consider dropping one Inquisitor for a second CCS.

I appreciate that it's hard to swap into a new style of playing, and going from super relaxed to a more competitive vibe can be a huge shift. So stick with it and remember that they're guardsmen, they're supposed to die.

As for the list, there are a lot of what I consider "extras." Keep in mind, your army is going to work through volume. If you throw more dice, you will eventually win. Therefore, spending points to make your average humans better is often a non-starter, it's usually better to just take more of them.

Redundancy can be OK, but you want to make sure the right thing is redundant. For example, the inquisitors are redundant with the priests. You don't need both, and they don't contribute that much as long as the other lives.

For the platoon, I think you need to decide if you're going as one big squad or multiple smaller ones. Because you are not mechanized, I assume you will be going with larger squads. That means you need to be careful what your equipment is so that it doesn't conflict with your other goals, and you can cut redundant equipment, like the voxes, since one blob squad only needs a single vox caster. In any event, 20 man blobs will disappear quicker than you can pull the minis off, so I'd really consider slapping them into one huge group of 40-50 men. In so doing you'd have to choose a weapon, and I'd go with either a las cannon or an auto cannon (though missile launchers have been growing on me). If you only have one blob, the second inquisitor is a bit less useful, so you might consider finding the points for 2 blobs of 30. At that point you could also invest in a commissar just for giggles and redundancy with the inquisitor.

I hesitate to endorse sniper rifles. They are cool, but you really do not want your command squad getting shot at, and your veterans can pack a much scarier punch while still sitting at long range. If you want to keep snipers, try and snag a weapons team as well so they get the most out of the BS 4 you are paying for. The issue will be what kind of weapon since snipers don't like shooting at vehicles. Maybe missile launchers?

The las cannon heavy weapons squad is super expensive and insanely fragile. I'd drop them and put the cannons in either vet squads or in platoon squads. The general rule I have for guard is that infantry kill tanks and tanks kill infantry. It's hard to abide by since guard infantry are pretty bad at killing tanks ;p Still, melta toting command squads, melta vets, melta scions, las cannon veterans, and sentinels are always decent options.

Your inquisition detachment is really sneaky. The =][= chimeras are still 5 man hatches, 55 points, and the 3 plasma guns come in cheaper than they would on vets. The down side is that you can't get orders, they aren't obsec, and you are firing at BS3 instead of BS4. If you wanted to max this type of thing out, I'd take 3 veteran squads with either 3 plasma guns/melta guns or a las cannon, 3 henchman warbands consisting of a psyker and 2 naked accolytes, and 3 =][= chimeras with psybolt goodness. You could then cut the primaris psyker and 2 priests. This gets you 1 more psychic die, BS4 orderable plasma in a 5 man hatch s6 ap4 chimera.

You could also just cut the priests and turn the henchmen into plasma vets and get something similar.

For the command squads, I'd like to see something more powerful on the platoon command and cut the vox. Grenade launchers are a generalist weapon, and with guard, you can take enough units that each one can have a specific task and you'll end up with plenty of guys who can do what you need them to do without resorting to the iffy abilities of a generalist weapon. Most of their orders aren't important enough that you'd want to drop points on them in the form of a vox, especially when it costs you a special weapons slot. The company command is really really vulnerable. I know they have cammo gear, but 5 t3 men are going to go up in smoke pretty quickly. As such, I'd recommend getting them a chimera to hide in. That goes for the platoon command as well, they'll want to be running up the field so buying them a ride isn't a bad idea.

As for the russ, it's fine, but not excellent. Because gets hot is a thing (and with 3 shots, believe me it will be), I'd rather go for something less prone to exploding itself and a bit better at its job: killing infantry. Some that jump to mind are the eradicator and exterminator. The eradicator is unbelievably good at killing anything out of power armor, and the exterminator can be kitted for anti tank or anti infantry as the needs arise. As stated above, you really should saturate the board, and a single AV 14 hull is going to be getting a lot of hate. I'd take 3 or none. If you don't want to do that, you can always spam more artillery, taking chimeras and wyverns to do your anti-infantry duty.

Good luck!

Part of the issue that I run into when playing guard solo (I more often allied them with a detachment of Grey Knights) in this kind of point zone is that I run out of models to use. I'm severely limited by my vehicle choices merely because I only own so many. I have two Chimera, one Leman Russ, one Rhino and a super old school Predator. The first three generally serve me as exactly what they're modeled for, and the other two I can proxy into other vehicles with my opponents forbearance, but I'm still limited to five vehicles in an army that tends to make significant use of them.

It's rather frustrating.

I like the idea of adding a missile launcher to the veteran squads especially if they are going to remain the bubble wrap for my aegis line, but that leads me to another point. If I decide to drop the HWT to fit Meltas into my PCS's (plural, as I've decided to go with two platoons with two blobs of 30 troops) is it really necessary? Would I be better served keeping my whole force mobile or hiding some troops behind the Aegis?

I do like the idea of plasma vets mounting up in the Inquisition Chimeras though. That could totally work.

But again, the number of special weapon toting guardsmen I own is limited, and even to run the two 30 man blobs alongside 20 Veterans and 20 Inquisition Acolytes I have to proxy some of my old Fire Warriors as rank and file guardsmen. I'm thinking I should just drop down and make a 1500 point base list with 350 points of "upgrades" on the side that I can swap to if my opponent prefers a higher points game, because the number of proxies I might have to foist upon him could become... troublesome.

These are the thing I'm wrestling with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So after a lot of research and some great input from all of you folks, I think I've settled on a list that could work quite well.

Astra Militarum (1350 points)

Headquarters 150 points

Company Command Squad
Camo Gear
Veteran Lascannon Team
Veteran with Sniper x2
Master of Ordnance
Astropath

Troops 815 points

Infantry Platoon 235 points

Platoon Command Squad
Melta Gunner x4

Infantry Squad x3
Flamethrower
Commissar x1

Infantry Platoon 340 points

Platoon Command Squad
Melta Gunner x4

Infantry Squad x3
Flamethrower
Commissar x1

Veteran Squad 130 points
Carapace Armor
Plasma Gun x3
Autocannon Team

Veteran Squad 130 points
Carapace Armor
Plasma Gun x3
Autocannon Team

Fast Attack 135 points
Scout Sentinel with Multilaser and Hunter Killer Missile x3

Heavy Support 290 points

Leman Russ Eterminator, Lascannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons 160 points

Wyvern Battery 130 points
Wyvern x2

Inquisition 400 points

Headquarters 220 points

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
Terminator Armor
Psyker
Psycannon

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
Terminator Armor
Psyker
Psycannon

Elites 180 points

Henchmen Warband
Psyker
Acolyte with Bolter x2
Chimera with Heavy Bolter and Psybolt Ammunition

Henchmen Warband
Psyker
Acolyte with Bolter x2
Chimera with Heavy Bolter and Psybolt Ammunition

Henchmen Warband
Psyker
Acolyte with Bolter x2

Fortifications 100 points

Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun


I'd be doing the same general strategy with a few variations. The big blobs of guardsmen, now 30 men strong with 3 flamers mixed in for fun, are each accompanied by an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor for a bit of extra dakka, the stubborn buff, and the chance at buffing them up with their psychic powers. If anything chooses to charge the squad they'll have to worry about the Inquisitor's Nemesis Hammer hiding in there. Each blob also features a Commissar to double up the Stubborn buff and have Summary Execution for good measure, in the rare case I fail a Stubborn LD10 test.

The Platoon Command Squads will range around behind the blobs, using their bodies as literal meat shields while giving orders to maximize the blob's potential. If anything dangerously powerful (aka, big MC's or Vehicles) wanders too close they can get into position and blast them with four Meltas straight to the face.

The Plasma Veterans will hitch a ride in the two Heavy Bolter equipped Chimera provided by my Inquisition allies, taking full advantage of the five fire points to spew plasma and autocannon shots at anything juicy enough to get in their range. Mobile pillboxes with all sorts of firepower spewing out of it.

The Scout Sentinels are a new addition, one that I think will throw a wrench in my opponent's plans and also give me some helpful anti-tank work. Nine multi-laser shots and three hunter killer missiles into side or rear armor from an Outflank will make short work of anything save a Land Raider.

The Exterminator and the Wyverns stay back by the Aegis Defense Line to provide fire support to the infantry as they advance, while the Company Command Squad sets up next to the Quad Gun so the Company Commander can use the gun for a bit of extra long range fire (4 Skyfire shots isn't that great of a chance to hit, but with twin-link I should be able to manage 1-2 each turn when not firing at aircraft)

The Henchman bands are basically wandering Warp Charge generators that can be the focus of psychic powers on the field to toss out Divinations or whatever power I might need to use. For 20 points each I think they're points well spent.

And that's really the plan. I have the models to make it work and I think the tactics figured out, but as the old saying goes: no plan survives contact with the enemy.

Just have to give it a whirl and see what happens!

I like the second list much better. I still am concerned about the single AV14, (I understand you dont have another, maybe one proxy is good to split the enemy AT fire?) I would also consider dropping the Lascannon on the Russ and just stick to the HBs all around, and use the points for some power axes on those Commissars. (may have to do with one less warp charge to afford it, or drop the MoO he is sooo incredibly inaccurate.)

However I am just nitpicking, have fun!

The list looks great! The only thing I would have reservations about is putting those inquisitors in the same squads as the commissars. If they do happen to fail a morale check in the off chance, then there will be a 1 in 3 chance your opponent will kill your inquisitor. Personally I prefer priests myself but I can understand wanting to be able to go to ground and get back up the next turn with orders. My opinion is that too many of the benefits of commissars and the inquisitors overlap too much for it to be worth the points of putting both in 1 squad. I would use the 50 points from the 2 commissars and buy something else with them. Seriously though, this is a minor nitpick. Otherwise this list looks pretty good to me especially considering the limits on the models you own like you mentioned.

I initially had the hull mount on the Russ as a HB but I found myself with 10 points leftover and thought "What the heck, why not". I suppose it makes more sense to stick with HB's, keep all the shooting in the same niche.

Power Axes for the Commissars would be a nice touch... I could still decline a challenge with the blob (if I had to) and have some AP2 attacks coming at them hidden away.

In order to proxy a second Russ I would have to take away one of the Wyverns. Without two artillery pieces I find I'm a little lacking in the blast department, something I prefer to keep around just in case my enemy decides to bunch his troops up. The Chimeras are staying as Chimeras, that's of non-negotiable. The mobile plasma pillboxes are an interesting idea that I really want to try.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If they fail the morale check with the Inquisitor in the squad, the Inquisitor is completely safe. The Summary Execution rule specifically states that you can only choose an Astra Militarum model within that unit, excluding the Commissar himself.

I had the same thought but double checked the rule just to be safe.

I thought about priest vs. commissar but Fearless alongside a stubborn Inquisitor feels like overkill. Not to mention priests cannot get power axes (which I definitely want to put in my army now) and as you said, the ability to Go to Ground can be very helpful. The great thing about doubling the stubborn buffs up though is that it gives me flexibility. If I need to split the Inquisitor off to join another squad (say, one of the Veteran squads that gets knocked out of their Chimera) or charge down a vulnerable Vehicle with his Nemesis Hammer I can do so without stripping the morale boost that he gives to the infantry blob completely, and it gives redundancy just in case the Commissar gets taken down by a blast weapon inside the blob.

BATTLE UPDATE:

So I used the list almost exactly as posted, save for a drop on the Lascannon for my Exterminator and one of the Pysker generator squads in favor of two power axes for my Commissars. Neither of these things mattered because I ended up matched against, wait for it..... a guy playing 5 Imperial Knights.

Yeah.

I swapped the Wyverns for Hydras, because I didn't really have time to reconfigure those 130 points into anything else (also... I brought only the models I needed to make the full 1850 points army) which actually ended up doing me some good.

I ended up losing 8 points to 6, but that's only because he managed to take out my Warlord in the very last turn. Got the Assassinate tactical objective, slay the warlord, and linebreaker all at the very end. Managed to take out 3 of the 5 Imperial Knights and strip 4 out of 6 hull points on the fourth in a list with only one lascannon... I'd say that's not a bad result against the cheese that is Imperial Knights.

All in all was very impressed with this list, thanks for the help putting it together Dakka!

Not, bad. Thanks for the update.

Wow, sounds like your "friend" was a really relaxed dude :p Glad your game went well! 6-8 for your first game against that kind of list is really solid.

If you want to try and make more out of your list and models on hand, you could take 2 chimeras on the platoon command squads or veteran squads, and 2 inquisitorial razorbacks with TL assault cannons + psybolt ammunition. You can get turret bits from ebay and use your rhino and predator as the base. Basically nets you an extra pair of psycanons. The meltas benefit from getting up close, and getting into a transport makes that a bit easier. They are 80 points, which is steep, but gets you some pretty good traction.

In the future, melta bombs or krak grenades on your infantry squads might get you a bit more traction if you face tough monstrous creatures or walker spam.

How did the commissar + inquisitor go? Not too redundant?

If you find that your inquisitor isn't necessary, you can buy 3 servitors and make 2 of your henchman squads in to plasma cannon spamming dudes.

Honestly the Commissar/Inquisitor combo worked out pretty well. Granted I was against Knights so I didn't really have a chance to test out their capacity in close combat (other than the Guardsmen being stomped into the dirt in their droves) but having two suppliers for Stubborn LD10 was helpful to keep those meatshield blobs between the knights and the things that could actually hurt them. In fact my Hydras and Quad Gun managed to glance down one of the Knights all on their own. The other two got literally one shot by my Melta PCS's, which turned out to be a fantastic use of points.

It's really hard for the enemy to get around the blobs and take out the command squads before I can get them into proper position for a huge melta blast.

I'm thinking of finding 10 points per blob for 10 guys with Krak Grenades and liberally distribute them throughout the field, and maybe one or two sergeants in each with Melta Bombs. If my blobs had Melta Bombs that game against the Knights would probably have been quite a bit more in my favor.