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The primarchs can't possibly buy into the imperial cult at all. They spent the better half of their lives fighting for the imperial truth*
The primarchs have to be atheists, or at least not acknowledge the emperor as a deity.
They knew him personally, and he was an atheist (or purported atheist who just lied about being an atheist so the chaos gods wouldn't get powerful)
So why is it that space marines buy into the imperial cult?

*(the imperial truth is that there are no gods, and that humans are the final authority)

Thanks
Austim

Most chapters don't view the Emperor as a true god, instead viewing him as an exemplar that humanity should live up to this. This is a point of contention with the ecclesiarchy who tolerate this due to how critical marines are to humanity but would prefer if they would change.

Because the latest recruits have lived their entire lives before being a marine surrounded by the Imperial Cult, and many chapters were made after the heresy, so every member has had it shoved down their throats.

As for the primarchs, Lorgar believed the Emperor was a god, and was do thorough in his belief that Big E had to punish him for it.

 2BlackJack1 wrote:
Because the latest recruits have lived their entire lives before being a marine surrounded by the Imperial Cult, and many chapters were made after the heresy, so every member has had it shoved down their throats.

That's not necessarily true. A lot of chapter recruitment worlds are feral, and left that way intentionally. The ecclesiarchy has absolutely no presence on Fenris or Baal, for example.

 Redbad wrote:
So why is it that space marines buy into the imperial cult?

They don't, and for the reasons you listed. It's one of their defining characteristics, and a source of friction between them and some other Imperial factions.

I'm small minority likely do follow the Imperial Cult, but they'll be the outliers, in the same way the Minotaurs represent nobody but themselves with their beliefs and actions. The vast majority just see him as a man, albiet the pinnacle of human achievement, and their loyalty lies with him before the High Lords of Terra as part of the constitutional checks and balances established after the Horus Heresy. The Inquistion and the Custodes are the same in that regard too.

The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

The Primarchs have been gone for millennia, and Chaos isn't the only corrupting force in the Imperium. Maybe some Chapters don't worship the Emperor as a god, but some do regardless of the Primarchs. Lotta brainwashing in post-heresy space marine recruiting.

As I understand it they venerate the Emperor as a father/grandfather figure, a paragon and a hero, rather than worshipping him as a god.

There's 35 studio Chapters that venerate the God-Emperor as exactly that, for most of the reasons listed above.

If your Chapter is a Third-or-later Founding Chapter, then the Ecclesiarchy is a reality your life 99% of the time. Even Feral Worlds can have priests (that Fenris doesn't is part of what makes them pagan idolaters). In such cases, everyone walking into the Chapter is already an Emperor-fearing citizen. Changing that is not ideal (also, dumb).

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Okay, I wasn't familiar with THAT bit of fluff.
Makes me have more respect for the Marines now.

Thanks
Austin

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Not really. With the exception of maybe the Black Templars, I don't know of any chapters that set one way or the other as a chapter-wide decree. There are almost certainly battle brothers who are very spiritual within chapters that, for the most part, do not believe in the emperor's godhood and vice versa.

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Not really. With the exception of maybe the Black Templars, I don't know of any chapters that set one way or the other as a chapter-wide decree. There are almost certainly battle brothers who are very spiritual within chapters that, for the most part, do not believe in the emperor's godhood and vice versa.

In the Blood Angels Omnibus, Rafen was accused of not believing in the God-Emperor fervently enough, and almost got executed for it.

In the sixth edition codex it states that the Marines view him as someone to follow after and exemplify but not as a God.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Not really. With the exception of maybe the Black Templars, I don't know of any chapters that set one way or the other as a chapter-wide decree. There are almost certainly battle brothers who are very spiritual within chapters that, for the most part, do not believe in the emperor's godhood and vice versa.

In the Blood Angels Omnibus, Rafen was accused of not believing in the God-Emperor fervently enough, and almost got executed for it.

By heretics who were being manipulated by Chaos, not really a good example.

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Not really. With the exception of maybe the Black Templars, I don't know of any chapters that set one way or the other as a chapter-wide decree. There are almost certainly battle brothers who are very spiritual within chapters that, for the most part, do not believe in the emperor's godhood and vice versa.

In the Blood Angels Omnibus, Rafen was accused of not believing in the God-Emperor fervently enough, and almost got executed for it.

By heretics who were being manipulated by Chaos, not really a good example.

This was way before the RP had anything to do with Arkio, right around the start of the book.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The Space Wolves worshiped the Allfather from the start, and that's the only Loyalist Chapter that I can think of with an excuse for abandoning Imperial Truth. Unfortunately, the idiots at BL seem to think that anything Imperial has to worship the Emperor, no matter what, so novel Marines almost always end up religious fanatics. Irritating, to say the least.

Actually the latest Space Wolves novels I've read make it pretty clear that they DON'T worship the Emperor as a god, despite referring to him as the Allfather.

And yet, Bludbroder (Unremembered Empire) said a prayer to the Allfather... I smell conflicting fluff.

Not really. With the exception of maybe the Black Templars, I don't know of any chapters that set one way or the other as a chapter-wide decree. There are almost certainly battle brothers who are very spiritual within chapters that, for the most part, do not believe in the emperor's godhood and vice versa.

In the Blood Angels Omnibus, Rafen was accused of not believing in the God-Emperor fervently enough, and almost got executed for it.

By heretics who were being manipulated by Chaos, not really a good example.

This was way before the RP had anything to do with Arkio, right around the start of the book.

RP? I'm guessing you mean Sachiel, the Sanguinary Priest, but I think you're forgetting that Sachiel had just spent years under Inquisitor Stele's command. Stele was the chaos agent who corrupted Arkio as well, pretty much every Blood Angel who went with Stele to find the Spear of Telesto was already twisted.

Sorry, by RP I mean Ruinous Powers.

Sorry for bumping, but it seems no one mentioned that space marines candidates go hrough heavy hypno indoctrination.

Even the Space Wolves go through that (in the omnibus Ragnar tells how machines pumped information right in his head, tenets, techniques and the Chapter/Legion's history).

My point with this is that unless they're Chapters formed from the geneseed bank with no communication with their parent Legion/Chapter; or that works heavily with the Inquisition, or perhaps a specific excuse for a specific reason; when they get the info shoved right into their brains, when they learn of the glorious Great Crusade they ought to probably learn about the original Imperial Truth and have this ingrained; disregard that they were born from Emperor fearing parents and lived their first 10 to 15 years living as modern common imperials.

I thought it was pretty well established that all Marine Chapters revere the Emperor as a great man, but a man none the less. The main exception being the Black Templars.

The primarchs I believe saw him as more of a father figure.

Here's some Chapters that adhere to the Imperial Creed, with sources quoted:

The Fire Hawks are one, prior to becoming the LotD, having been one of the first to the fight during the Age of Apostasy, in support of Sebastian Thor (and did, in fact, get awarded a Heresy-era Battle Barge by him, iirc, as Vandire had destroyed their homeworld). (IA v9, C:UM 2E, WH40K Comp, WD 99, C:Assassins 3E)

The Adulators were mentioned in a Chapter Approved article, of which it is said (according to Lexicanum) "The chapter is steeped in the ways of the Ecclesiarchy and are on close terms with their holy orders". (Chapter Approved 2001, Blood of Asaheim(BL) )

The Angels Revenant were said to be "stern supporters of the Imperial Creed". (Chapter Approved 2001, IA v12)

The White Consuls also worship the Emperor as a god, which is noted for being unusual for the Astartes. (WH40K BRB 5E, C:UM, C: EoT, DW: Rites of Battle, C: SM 6E ebook)

The Doom Eagles are "notoriously pious". (DW: Honour the Chapter, Legends of the Space Marines anthology, several BL novels/stories)

The Fire Angels (a UM Successor) are zealously dedicated to the Creed. Of them, it is said, "they do not revere their ancestral primarch (Roboute Guilliman) as most chapters do, believing this to be a form of idolatry". (IA v9)

The Red Scorpions, who developed the Helios-pattern Land Raider, are seriously in the Emp-worshipping camp. (IA v4, v6, v7, v9, WD 101, WD 105)

And then there are the Storm Wardens, from FFG's Deathwatch RPG. Not a GW Chapter, obviously, but one more for the pile.

One can make arguments for the Angels Resplendent/Angels Penitent, the Brazen Skulls, the Celebrants, the Crimson Fists, the Templars of Blood, and the Novamarines, though these Chapters are not outright said to worship the God-Emperor (but elements to what lore there is about them suggests such an arrangement).


*ALSO*... let us not forget Lorgar and his Word Bearers. They *most certainly* viewed the Emperor as a divine being.

According to the Ecclesiarchy, the Emperor became a God after his sacrifice to save humanity during the Horus Heresy. Before that he was a human. Thus, nothing tells us that he couldn't be revered by a God by a living Primarch after that event.

Also, don't forget that the Blood Angels, Blood Drinkers, and a number of other Sons of Sanguinius worship Sanguinius and the Emperor.

Imperial law and the Inquisition decrees that two cults are to be allowed free reign besides the Imperial creed.

First is the Space marines cults.

Second is the Cult mechanicus.

And then there are Chapters like the Imperial Fists, who recruit from Terra, the most-powerful Shrine-Fortress-Hive World in the galaxy.

 Psienesis wrote:
And then there are Chapters like the Imperial Fists, who recruit from Terra, the most-powerful Shrine-Fortress-Hive World in the galaxy.

Don't they also take young necromundan gangsters? I'm sure those don't give a crap abou the Emperor in their probably short lives, and those who do is just lip service when needed.

Whether they have actual faith or not is irrelevant, it's the fact that, insofar as they understand, the Emperor is a god.