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Hey all.  I've been playing "friendly 40K" in a small gaming group for a couple of years, but have recently been considering entering a few RTTs in my area.  I'm working on a Biel-Tan tourney list for these, and have been looking at taking Phoenix Lords (specifically Baharroth or Asurmen) as my HQ choice.

I understand that I can simply ask if they'll be allowed prior to a particular tournament, but, seeing as even some of my "friendly" gaming companions have been loathe to allow their use, I wanted to get a better sampling before heading out to build a list around them.  In the experience of other folks on this board, are PLs going to keep me out of more tourneys / non-"friendly" games than not?  On a related note, are PLs going to impact my comp / sports scores?

I'll be posting a list soon, but if anyone has any comments on PLs as HQ choices, I'm all ears.  They've never failed to make back their points (and then some) for me.

Thanks.

Pelarr.

Phoenix lords are opponent's consent only...So they are generally a no-no for a tournament.

Fair enough, I suppose.  Thanks!

Pelarr

If memory serves... you could take the dark reaper phoenix lord without players consent in the Ulthwe Strike force list. Codex isn't handy, however, so I could be wrong.


But, in a tourny environment... It's best to just ask the organizer. If they say it's Ok, then it's Ok. Other players just have to deal with it. If not, then it's not Ok... and YOU have to deal with it.

Thanks, KiMonarrez. Yes, I believe (having just looked at the EOT codex last night) that Maugen Ra can be taken in the USF list without permission. As for Baharroth or Asurmen in Biel-Tan, I'll just have to build an alternate tourney list in case PLs won't be allowed. A bit more playtesting to have both lists on board (and with kids, playtesting time is really dear), but nothing I won't be able to get around.

I guess this is more a statement for another board (not having much to do with tactics), but it does seem as though the amount of points you pay for PLs is pretty balanced with their abilities, not taking into account their relative fragility. Also, I'd wager that, since PLs don't specifically require "opponent's permission", but instead require "agreement that special characters can be used", and an implicit special characters agreement already seems to exist (per the newly permissive 4th ed codexes), you can use PLs without opponent consent.

And, of course, to be a real bastard, RAW-wise, the "opponent opinion" rules for PLs aren't in the unit listings, they're on a separate part of the page. Given the rules in the BGB regarding special characters, this would indicate that you literally don't need permission, as the BGB (if memory serves) states that the exceptions for not needing opponent consent are those unit listings that contain rules that state otherwise. This of course begs the question (assuming I'm remembering correctly) of what "unit listings" are.

Anyhow... :-) Sorry to get off on a tangent.

Thanks for your help.

Pelarr.

I know that in the last RTT I played in one of my eldar opponents took Baharroth in his vanilla army. However, I think that it was stated in the rules for the tournament that special characters would be allowed, as long as all the required conditions were met (ie. 1500 points or more, etc.).

As a side note, Baharroth is a kick-ass model in cc. By himself he wiped out a couple of my marine squads with his freaking web of skulls.