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2016/02/12 12:16:55
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
What's the difference between The Curse of the Wulfen of the Space Wolves and the Black Rage of the Blood Angels? Other than the Blood Angels start hallucinating that they're Sanguinius.
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran"
2016/02/12 13:48:21
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
The Wulfen actually mutate physically, becoming werewolf-like beasts in appearance and manner. A Blood Angel struck by Black Rage is still physically a marine, even if his madness lets him ignore wounds that would make any other marine call for a medic.
2016/02/13 03:03:51
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
The curse of the Wulfen is a mutation from the Canis Helix that every Space Wolf is infused with. All space wolves take on some canine traits. Improved hearing and smell, elongated canine teeth that never actually stop growing, more robust body hair, etc.
However for some unfortunate souls, it doesn't stop there. There (these guys we call cursed) They grow longer fingernail like claw and apparently now get animal type legs and feet. However, they still retain their human minds and conditions. They still plan, strategist, and function inside an organized military structure. But unfortunately due to the Emperiums fear of mutants and heritics the SW were forced to hide those who have succumbed to the curse to protect their chapter.
Then you have those poor chaps who completely fall to the helix and apparently de-evolved into Ferensian Wolves.
Blood Angles Death Company are marines that have pretty much gone Bat- guano crazy. Their minds have become consumed by the death of their Primarch as carried through their gene seed. They are locked up in the black tower and are pretty much point and clicked released into battle. Their only goal to kill as much as possible before dying a glorious death.
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
2016/02/13 03:48:43
Subject: Re:Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
My understanding of the old fluff is that wulfen why being a bit more temperamental are still able to be rational sentient beings. Idk If that has changed in the recent book, but they are just furry marines.
Death Company are to varying degrees incredibly delusional to the point where they basically think they are back at the siege of Terra.
2016/02/13 18:12:58
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
There are some Space Wolf audio CDs involving Wulfen. In these the afflicted mutate into gigantic beasts, which retain a feral cunning and some nobility, but are mainly savage killers.
2016/02/13 20:56:27
Subject: Re:Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
iIRC, I think the Black Rage was caused by something in Sangunius's genetic material. Not sure about curse of the wulfen though.
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2016/02/13 23:33:51
Subject: Re:Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
combination of Psychic and Physical taint in the gene-seed of Blood Angels. The physical aspect (known as 'the Red Thirst') turns the Blood Angels into maddened killers who want nothing but to drink all of the blood of any living being around them (as seen in Fear to Tread), and generally makes them insane enough to shrug off wounds that would incapacitate other Blood Angels (they basically get FNP, but Priests already give that Crunchwise, so they don't get it naturally). The Red Thirst is an inevitable fact of life for BA, and most are able to use it to one degree or another to boost their combat capabilities (hence Furious Charge Chapter Tactic). The Black Rage is the same thing, except that it makes them more rational. When Horus killed Sanguinius, he did it on both a physical and Psychic level, making Sanguinius's Psychic deathscream cause a permanent Psychic change to the BA gene-seed, so that the Flaw now makes BA hallucinate that they're the heroes of the HH, which makes them far easier to control and use as weapons.
The Canis Helix:
Spoiler:
the Curse of the Wolfen (aka the Canis Helix) is almost purely physical. It gives SW heightened senses, eyeteeth that never stop growing, hair that gets greyer the longer a SW is alive, and a feral demeanor (the latter might be cultural). When a SW is first implanted with Canis Helix to activate their gene-seed (every Chapter activates gene-seed differently), they must take the "beast" within them, which has the capability to turn them into Wulfen, maddened killers that want nothing more than to hunt down the toughest prey, and devour it (aka Space Werewolves). Should a SW "tame" the beast, he can use it much like the BA use the Red Thirst, to give Furious Charge (only in the fluff, most of this is based off of the Space Wolf Omnibus, which is the most definitive source that I know of for this topic), though this isn't reflected in the crunch. Very rarely, Space Wolves can 'Wolf out' (as in the case of muderfang the dreadnought, the one with the sophomoric name), and turn into Wulfen later in life. This is generally a natural response to exposure to Chaos energies, as it makes SW highly resistant to Chaos taint. The latter form of transformation allows the SW to retain their intellect (this info is from the original 13th Company expansion, the one where they included a Company Captain and full hierarchy fro the 13th Company, the name of the book escapes me, but it was during the huge 13th Black Crusade, the one where GW reneged on its agreement to let the Campaign results affect the fluff).
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2016/02/14 16:33:13
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
The curse of the Wulfen is a mutation from the Canis Helix that every Space Wolf is infused with. All space wolves take on some canine traits. Improved hearing and smell, elongated canine teeth that never actually stop growing, more robust body hair, etc.
However for some unfortunate souls, it doesn't stop there. There (these guys we call cursed) They grow longer fingernail like claw and apparently now get animal type legs and feet. However, they still retain their human minds and conditions. They still plan, strategist, and function inside an organized military structure. But unfortunately due to the Emperiums fear of mutants and heritics the SW were forced to hide those who have succumbed to the curse to protect their chapter.
Then you have those poor chaps who completely fall to the helix and apparently de-evolved into Ferensian Wolves.
Blood Angles Death Company are marines that have pretty much gone Bat- guano crazy. Their minds have become consumed by the death of their Primarch as carried through their gene seed. They are locked up in the black tower and are pretty much point and clicked released into battle. Their only goal to kill as much as possible before dying a glorious death.
The Blood Angels tower is for the Red Thirst, not the Black Rage. Those who fall to the Black Rage can be reasonably controlled, especially by Chaplains, because their mind distorts the world around them to fit Sanguinius' final moments. Those who are lost to the Red Thirst are little more than animals, and will attack anything and everything.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: iIRC, I think the Black Rage was caused by something in Sangunius's genetic material. Not sure about curse of the wulfen though.
The Red Thirst is in his genetic material, the Black Rage is psychic in nature.
2016/02/14 16:45:47
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
So the red thirst is an innate hunger for violence within the blood angels, almost the same as with Space wolves curse initially.
When the red thirst becomes uncontrollable and they get carried away during combat and they descend into the Black Rage and have the visions of Sanguinius.
When the Curse of the Wulfen becomes uncontrollable they mutate into savage but cunning beasts.
Is this far off?
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran"
2016/02/14 23:51:51
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
Taffy17 wrote: So the red thirst is an innate hunger for violence within the blood angels, almost the same as with Space wolves curse initially.
When the red thirst becomes uncontrollable and they get carried away during combat and they descend into the Black Rage and have the visions of Sanguinius.
When the Curse of the Wulfen becomes uncontrollable they mutate into savage but cunning beasts.
Is this far off?
Close. The Red Thirst and Black Rage are different afflictions. The Black Rage strikes with little or no warning, and makes the marine believe they are Sanguinius during the Siege of Terra. They see enemies as traitor marines, more powerful enemies as traitor primarchs or even Horus himself, and allies as loyal marines or loyal primarchs. They can still speak, and will follow orders to a point. The Red Thirst is innate, is a bloodlust, and is more variable. The Red Thirst will get stronger the more intense the combat becomes, but it can still abate at the end of the combat. Some marines do eventually completely succumb to the Red Thirst though, at which point they are simply animals from a mental standpoint.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/14 23:55:18
2016/02/15 00:03:59
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
So is the Curse of the Wulfen basically the same as the red thirst except with a thirst for general violence as opposed to blood specifically and when the succumb to it there's the added mutation?
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran"
2016/02/15 00:05:48
Subject: Black Rage/Curse of the Wulfen Differences?
So is the Curse of the Wulfen basically the same as the red thirst except with a thirst for general violence as opposed to blood specifically and when the succumb to it there's the added mutation?
I'd say so yes. I don't know Space Wolf fluff as well as I know Blood Angels fluff, but from what I remember of Ragnar's struggles with his inner rage it seems more like the Red Thirst than the Black Rage to me.
