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Two inquiries.

First, two different rules have a set of semi-ambiguous "and/or" statements:
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with a plasma pistol…15 pts
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with one of the following:
- Power weapon…15 pts
- Power fist…25 pts

Does this mean that (obviously for double the indicated cost) I can trade both the bolt gun AND the bolt pistol on one model for plasma pistols/melee weapons?

Second, the big rule book specifically states:
"No Specified Melee Weapon
If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."

The options for the Grey Hunters state:
Any model may take a close combat weapon…2 pts/model

Is this something like taking a Chain Sword? Or is it basically spending 2 points per model to take the same basic, generic close combat weapon that they're already assumed to have?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that it makes a huge difference, since the Chain Sword has the same profile as the generic melee weapon.

If they have a pistol, they have a ccw and do not qualify for the "free" one.

OK, you know what, I asked a simple question. the pistol's melee profile has the same weapon profile as the generic melee weapon. It was a simple bloody question of what the TWO POINT MELEE WEAPON DESCRIBED IN THE BLOODY OPTIONS LIST IS. Would you mind not bloody mocking me for asking a simple freaking question?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This isn't a discussion thread, either answer the question, or go away, because I've had enough of your bad logic.

Zarius wrote:
Two inquiries.

First, two different rules have a set of semi-ambiguous "and/or" statements:
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with a plasma pistol…15 pts
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with one of the following:
- Power weapon…15 pts
- Power fist…25 pts

Does this mean that (obviously for double the indicated cost) I can trade both the bolt gun AND the bolt pistol on one model for plasma pistols/melee weapons?

Yes you can trade BOTH although having 2 Pistols wont give you a advantage. .. at least as far as i am aware of...

Second, the big rule book specifically states:
"No Specified Melee Weapon
If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."

The options for the Grey Hunters state:
Any model may take a close combat weapon…2 pts/model


Is this something like taking a Chain Sword? Or is it basically spending 2 points per model to take the same basic, generic close combat weapon that they're already assumed to have?
do they already have a Bolter a Boltpistol AND a CC weapon? If so htis seems to be pointless. but if the dont have a CC Weapon on default then this would give you +1A because of Pistol and CC Weapon. if i am right.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that it makes a huge difference, since the Chain Sword has the same profile as the generic melee weapon.

Ghost, no, they do not TECHNICALLY have a melee weapon, though the pistol works as one due to it's melee profile. I'm more curious of the melee weapon that I would have to pay for is anything other than range bubkis, strength of user, AP of "bahahaha, no", and special rule of melee. Can I take a chain fist? it JUST says CCW, not a specific one. Eviscerator? Heavy chainsword? You see what I mean? I'm wondering why I'd pay two points a pop for it, unless it's better than what I can do by pistol whipping people.

As to the dual pistols,
"Gunslinger
All models with two Pistols can fire both in the Shooting phase. This follows the normal rules for shooting."
Firing twin plasma pistols does seem to have certain advantages.

A CC Weapon is nothing special.

Special CC Weapons as always listed and usually cost also more than just 2 points. I Dunno why you should pay extra when you already have one. seems pointless to me.

For the two pistols... Well 30 Points for shooting once in a game? ( considering range n such)seems not that good deal. but thats up to you

_ghost_ wrote:Yes you can trade BOTH although having 2 Pistols wont give you a advantage. .. at least as far as i am aware of...

Gunslinger, maybe?

Zarius wrote:OK, you know what, I asked a simple question. the pistol's melee profile has the same weapon profile as the generic melee weapon. It was a simple bloody question of what the TWO POINT MELEE WEAPON DESCRIBED IN THE BLOODY OPTIONS LIST IS. Would you mind not bloody mocking me for asking a simple freaking question?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
This isn't a discussion thread, either answer the question, or go away, because I've had enough of your bad logic.

Mayhaps you may want to switch to decaff or seek a better night's sleep tonight. He apparently misunderstood your question. No need to get riled up about it.

Zarius wrote:Ghost, no, they do not TECHNICALLY have a melee weapon, though the pistol works as one due to it's melee profile. I'm more curious of the melee weapon that I would have to pay for is anything other than range bubkis, strength of user, AP of "bahahaha, no", and special rule of melee. Can I take a chain fist? it JUST says CCW, not a specific one. Eviscerator? Heavy chainsword? You see what I mean? I'm wondering why I'd pay two points a pop for it, unless it's better than what I can do by pistol whipping people.

When it says you may take a CCW, it is the most basic profile like a Chainsword or Combat Blade, just like the profile in the Weapons section. If it were something more specific, it would either say it like the Power Weapon or Power Fist, or redirect you to Melee Weapons to select from that list like the Pack Leader.

But that would be nice, Heavy Chainsword or Eviscerator for 2 pts?! Talk about lucky!

You see why I was asking. I mean, don't get me wrong, the extra melee attack is nice (Pistol + melee weapon), but it just says melee, and there's a LOT of options (here, screw anything else, ALL of you take THUNDER HAMMERS! MURDER ALL THE TANKS!)

You're confusing Melee weapon and close combat weapon.

A close combat is a Melee weapon, but a Melee weapon isn't necessarily a close combat weapon.

Can't you shoot 2 pistols at the same time? Or was that the last edition? My brother showed me that rule before and was able to buy 2 flame pistols on his Blood Angels and got a ton of hits on me before he charged.

Zarius wrote:
Two inquiries.

First, two different rules have a set of semi-ambiguous "and/or" statements:
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with a plasma pistol…15 pts
~One Grey Hunter may replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with one of the following:
- Power weapon…15 pts
- Power fist…25 pts

Does this mean that (obviously for double the indicated cost) I can trade both the bolt gun AND the bolt pistol on one model for plasma pistols/melee weapons?

Second, the big rule book specifically states:
"No Specified Melee Weapon
If a model is not specifically stated as having a weapon with the Melee type, it is treated as being armed with a single close combat weapon."

The options for the Grey Hunters state:
Any model may take a close combat weapon…2 pts/model

Is this something like taking a Chain Sword? Or is it basically spending 2 points per model to take the same basic, generic close combat weapon that they're already assumed to have?

--I think that because they have a stock pistol that they have a close combat weapon. -- I believe this rule exists so that units in the game that do not have pistols or options to take close combat weapons of any type are assumed to have something simple like a knife. Thus this rule allows that model to make close combat attacks - with the weapon profile of Strength USER AP -.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not that it makes a huge difference, since the Chain Sword has the same profile as the generic melee weapon.

Grey Hunters have a Bolt Gun and Bolt Pistol. For 2pts per model you can also give them a close combat weapon - which if you look at the sprues, you're given chain swords.
This is why they are the best tac marines in the game. They don't have to swap guns to get an extra close combat weapon for the extra attack.

This is great for the power weapons and plasma upgrades you've mentioned - They can still keep their bolter and can be upgraded to have a plasma pistol and CCW.

The one thing i am not sure of is if one model can exchange both bolter and bolt pistol and get a plasma gun and power weapon. - battlescribe seems to think you can.

Boredflak1066 wrote:
Can't you shoot 2 pistols at the same time? Or was that the last edition? My brother showed me that rule before and was able to buy 2 flame pistols on his Blood Angels and got a ton of hits on me before he charged.

Gunslinger rule under the Pistol Type in the Weapons section.

The confusion here is that there are two slightly different things with the same name.

There is the CCW given free to every model who doesn't have a piece of wargear that has a melee type. If the the character has a melee weapon already this "free" CCW doesn't exist and cannot be used to gain a bonus attack.

Some codexes also have a piece of wargear called a CCW (same profile as the free one) which is treated like any other melee weapon and can be used to gain a +1 attack.

So if you have a Grey Hunter with a Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, buying the CCW for 2 pts gains you an extra melee attack with your pistol.

If you upgrade your Grey hunter to have two pistols, then there is no point to choosing to buy the CCW weapon as you already have two melee attacks from two pistols.

Zarius wrote:
OK, you know what, I asked a simple question. the pistol's melee profile has the same weapon profile as the generic melee weapon. It was a simple bloody question of what the TWO POINT MELEE WEAPON DESCRIBED IN THE BLOODY OPTIONS LIST IS. Would you mind not bloody mocking me for asking a simple freaking question?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This isn't a discussion thread, either answer the question, or go away, because I've had enough of your bad logic.

It's rather bad from to yell and insult those who are trying to help you.

Please refrain from doing so in the future.