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2016/03/02 20:14:15
Subject: Stone Skull's 28mm Tabletop Gaming Miniature Furniture
CED - Is this yours or just sharing the news?
Looking at the website, I'm not really seeing a lot of examples that make me feel like the detail seen in the more detailed furniture will be carried across. In fact, from past experience, the Gothic and Scholar bookshelves look impossible to cast in resin without having the books and possibly railings as separate pieces. That's a lot of undercuts and holes.
The website itself is sparse on examples of anything so short of the stl files this seems pretty risky.
Although interesting, although I'm more interested in the scifi than anything else.
However I would have liked to see actual master 3d printed examples and a test resin cast to show the quality. The renders are nice and all but unfortunately that doesn't necessarily represent the final product.
The other reason I ask about seeing actual casts because if these are in resin, they seem really inexpensive... that could be both good and bad.
I'm looking at the prices, the quantity of models available at each pledge level, the shipping, the lack of actual prints... I've been burned enough that I can't help but be a bit wary of what's on offer.
Will at least keep an eye on things.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
Keep posting those concerns! I've linked this thread to the comments and will ask Stone Skull to reply to it.
The creator is outsourcing the miniatures production, so I've asked him to tell us what his experience in this is and the name of the outsourced company he's working with. I'd definitely like to see a test resin cast, since the figures have intricate details. Torn Armor had some nice looking renders with details too fine for resin, and a less-than-stellar outsourced company (Defiant).
MLaw wrote: CED - Is this yours or just sharing the news?
Looking at the website, I'm not really seeing a lot of examples that make me feel like the detail seen in the more detailed furniture will be carried across. In fact, from past experience, the Gothic and Scholar bookshelves look impossible to cast in resin without having the books and possibly railings as separate pieces. That's a lot of undercuts and holes.
The website itself is sparse on examples of anything so short of the stl files this seems pretty risky.
The .STL files of some of the Gothic Line are available on our main web page www.stoneskullstudios.com, on the Kickstart Video we have some prototype examples. However, you are absolutely correct in regards to undercuts and holes. Some will in fact require assembly. We have quite of few years with casting experience so we know about all the tricks but will always be happy to learn more. The one thing we are really trying to avoid are mold lines and striations. We can get a pretty damn clean print with the high end machines. However if we had our hands on something like a Formiga 110, we would just print everyone!
The other thing I really really don't want to do is start making copies of copies as then we really will get degradation. Go have a look at the free .STLs... chop them apart, mess with and please feel free to critique.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm looking at the prices, the quantity of models available at each pledge level, the shipping, the lack of actual prints... I've been burned enough that I can't help but be a bit wary of what's on offer.
Will at least keep an eye on things.
Check the video for some of our prototype prints. We are going to be posting more detailed images and video in the next few days.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark Severance wrote: Although interesting, although I'm more interested in the scifi than anything else.
However I would have liked to see actual master 3d printed examples and a test resin cast to show the quality. The renders are nice and all but unfortunately that doesn't necessarily represent the final product.
The other reason I ask about seeing actual casts because if these are in resin, they seem really inexpensive... that could be both good and bad.
Good point. Our cost per model is actually rather low due our overhead also being low. The main purpose of this is to just cover our costs, get the product to the backers ASAP and move on to the next stage. I honestly am not in this to make money other than for what I previously said. Also, the fact that I can devote 12+ hours a day makes it workable.
There is going to be much more SCI FI coming. As was mentioned earlier, undercuts and holes are the bane of casting which is why we prototype everything and then toss it in our pressure pots. However, we will be having these cast professionally and paying extra (Out of pocket if need be) to have those wonderful gentleman chop them apart to make it work.
As for renders... Renders look good and as I have said on other things I have pledged on, "I don't want the piece if it looks worse than the render". The prototypes in the video are not bad, and pretty good actually but I don't like them as the detail is lacking what I expect. I may be getting too picky but nobody ever said I was sane about that type of thing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/04 20:53:21
2016/03/04 20:56:30
Subject: Stone Skull's 28mm Tabletop Gaming Miniature Furniture
The Gothic and Dwarf styles are beautiful, but ye gods I hope you won't be doing the final models on the same machine that produced those test prints, they look like they're made out of sandpaper...
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
MLaw wrote: CED - Is this yours or just sharing the news?
Looking at the website, I'm not really seeing a lot of examples that make me feel like the detail seen in the more detailed furniture will be carried across. In fact, from past experience, the Gothic and Scholar bookshelves look impossible to cast in resin without having the books and possibly railings as separate pieces. That's a lot of undercuts and holes.
The website itself is sparse on examples of anything so short of the stl files this seems pretty risky.
The .STL files of some of the Gothic Line are available on our main web page www.stoneskullstudios.com, on the Kickstart Video we have some prototype examples. However, you are absolutely correct in regards to undercuts and holes. Some will in fact require assembly. We have quite of few years with casting experience so we know about all the tricks but will always be happy to learn more. The one thing we are really trying to avoid are mold lines and striations. We can get a pretty damn clean print with the high end machines. However if we had our hands on something like a Formiga 110, we would just print everyone!
The other thing I really really don't want to do is start making copies of copies as then we really will get degradation. Go have a look at the free .STLs... chop them apart, mess with and please feel free to critique.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm looking at the prices, the quantity of models available at each pledge level, the shipping, the lack of actual prints... I've been burned enough that I can't help but be a bit wary of what's on offer.
Will at least keep an eye on things.
Check the video for some of our prototype prints. We are going to be posting more detailed images and video in the next few days.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark Severance wrote: Although interesting, although I'm more interested in the scifi than anything else.
However I would have liked to see actual master 3d printed examples and a test resin cast to show the quality. The renders are nice and all but unfortunately that doesn't necessarily represent the final product.
The other reason I ask about seeing actual casts because if these are in resin, they seem really inexpensive... that could be both good and bad.
Good point. Our cost per model is actually rather low due our overhead also being low. The main purpose of this is to just cover our costs, get the product to the backers ASAP and move on to the next stage. I honestly am not in this to make money other than for what I previously said. Also, the fact that I can devote 12+ hours a day makes it workable.
There is going to be much more SCI FI coming. As was mentioned earlier, undercuts and holes are the bane of casting which is why we prototype everything and then toss it in our pressure pots. However, we will be having these cast professionally and paying extra (Out of pocket if need be) to have those wonderful gentleman chop them apart to make it work.
As for renders... Renders look good and as I have said on other things I have pledged on, "I don't want the piece if it looks worse than the render". The prototypes in the video are not bad, and pretty good actually but I don't like them as the detail is lacking what I expect. I may be getting too picky but nobody ever said I was sane about that type of thing.
I'm not sure if you realize this or not.. but some of the things you're saying about paying out of pocket if need be are major red flags for some of us who have been around KS a while. It's cool that you're not trying to get rich overnight on this. However, if you're not building in some costs for things you are going to need, that almost always creates problems. Delays happen and being short-funded tends to make them worse but hitting a non-deliver from under-funding is something we've seen.
I do sincerely wish you well with this and I hope it works out.
As an aside, you mention you have years of casting experience. What sort of things have you been casting? Do you have any photos or reviews of your products? These tend to help people make decisions. Especially when dealing with an unknown quantity, which largely is how I assume most people reading this would classify you.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I'm looking at the prices, the quantity of models available at each pledge level, the shipping, the lack of actual prints... I've been burned enough that I can't help but be a bit wary of what's on offer.
Will at least keep an eye on things.
One more thing I should of mentioned, we went into this wanting to offer a good quantity at a very low price to our backers. Including the painted ones. Damn straight this is ambitious and a bit out there.. but that is the whole point and I am not going to deny any of that! Shipping I am going to eat myself for the sake of the backers. Ok fine, I am just a middle aged disabled vet who is actually doing this because it's a lot of fun more than anything, it's great therapy and it keeps me busy. I'm make sure this works if I have to drag it through a drunken slaanesh party... Besides I have faith in my crew.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To me, saying that you are paying out of pocket if need be says you will do anything to make sure the backers get the product they are owed in a timely manner.
My costs are covered, the bills paid and the casting time is set up. You are not going to be able to please everyone even though you may strive to. I have also been a long time backer of many kickstarts and have been cooked as well.
I won't change how I do things regardless but I will, do my damnedest to accommodate..
Photos of what I have cast or my people have cast over the years? Indeed. Reviews? Of course not because all of it has been for our own and our friends tables. This is the first time any of us are venturing out into this market. The 10x10 room on the kickstarter page is a cast replica of a built wall from one of our sculptors. However, the cast does show the imperfections in the original product. Which as we are discussing will show.
Almost everything is back-filled to the point where it will not show but will reduce the mentioned overhang.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yodhrin wrote: The Gothic and Dwarf styles are beautiful, but ye gods I hope you won't be doing the final models on the same machine that produced those test prints, they look like they're made out of sandpaper...
I sure as hell hope we don't!!! I won't even put that on my table! Though we have found that acetone will smooth out that sandpaper.. look... but no. None of us are willing to sit there and sniff acetone when we can pay extra to have a nice smooth print made....
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Mlaw I will also take your advice however and show some other work on the main page as well.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/04 21:17:02
2016/03/04 22:43:21
Subject: Stone Skull's 28mm Tabletop Gaming Miniature Furniture
Hey no worries. My comment was definitely not meant as a criticism so much as unsolicited advice. I think my point, which was made perhaps less than gracefully was that it's okay if the prices aren't exactly rock bottom if they aren't because you're building in a budget to account for some things. Cheap is cool, but security in having enough fiscal backing to pull the project through is priceless.
As to the pictures and reviews thing.. I actually didn't know if you did or didn't.. There are people and companies doing casting for others who don't have a product line of their own. I thought you might've been a caster who is striking out on their own or something. I think White Dragon might fall under that category (not 100% sure) and I backed them when they did a 15mm campaign.
I've got a reminder set and will keep a watch. Until then best of luck
Looking forward to the photos! Definitely wouldn't mind multipart casting.
Still concerned about cost overruns. I don't like forcing creators to pay out of pocket.
I noticed you lowered the SG's, but I think the initial offering is great and I'm not here expecting SG's to be unlocked before seeing a good deal (unlike pretty much every plastic KS I've backed!).
Bots will be useful for Paranioa!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/04 23:25:15
Shipping I am going to eat myself for the sake of the backers. Ok fine, I am just a middle aged disabled vet who is actually doing this because it's a lot of fun more than anything, it's great therapy and it keeps me busy. 
I'm make sure this works if I have to drag it through a drunken slaanesh party... Besides I have faith in my crew. 
