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Okay, so I just got back into 40k, after really only playing 4th and 5th edition. My daemon codex is decent enough on its own (I'm honestly happy with it), but with the Wulfen book I realize I have access to formations and detachments. I have no real idea what that means. I realize I can take that chart in the book that shows a "core" unit (one of the four gods led by a herald and units of the chosen number), plus a number of leaders, 3 "heavy" formations, whatever and basically use the chart as an alternate FOC. But can I use things like Be'Lakor for his points listed as an HQ when running a formation-less Daemon army, as he's listed as an addition (like the D-Thirster and Exalted Flamer)? Or the Demon Tetrarch? Or is/are he/they only available when using that detachment/formation thing? How about the new Warlord Traits and Exalted gear?

Basically, in a nutshell, I have no idea how formations and detachments work, other than the whole damn thing being essentially a new FOC. Is there an easy guide that describes the do's, don'ts, and how-to's of detachments, formations, and cherry picking items/models? Thanks, all!

Essentially you can take as many detachments as you want following the restrictions therein, in whatever combination. So for examole, you could a Knight, an Aspect Shrine, a DE CAD (old FOC), and a Space Marine Librarian conclave as your army.

This does of course lead to the obvious fluff and balance issues that have turned 7E into a total shitshow.

Not sure if you have the Wulfen book in front of you by chance...but things like the Soul Grinder detachment of 3 models, or Skullcannon detachment of 3 models...could I run my normal Daemon book, then use one of each detachment within that, basically counting as two of the HS options? Giving me 3 grinders in a detachment and 3 Skullcannons in a detachment? Provided I have the points to do it, of course.

I havent looked at the wulfem book, but if they're formations, they dont count as anything but detachments, the HS designation only matters for the CAD (old FoC).

So you could have a CAD with a Herald, two troops units of daemons, and three DP's for HS choicrs as one detachment, that basically mirrors the old FOC, and then have the two Soulgrinder formations on top of that that dont take up any allocations in the CAD, effecticely giving you what used to be 9 HS units.

Well...hot gak!!
Thanks man. Good to know. So i can pretty much just count everything that is listed in the book as additional items (like the spells, gear and new unit builds), and the formation is basically just like a second optional FOC? Great!

Yeah the new detachments and formations have led to some really slowed lists. Like 4 wraithknights in an 1850 game...

I took a 4 wraithknight list to a local tournament and stomped the competition to the ground. There was literally no strategy involved. Shoot the D cannons at the vehicles/MC's and use the 2 shoulder mounted star cannons to mop up infantry. I can't say it was the most fun I ever had though. This was on the day the codex came out though. Only necrons came close and that was my friend playing that army. he one shotted a wraithknight with a lucky C'Tan power roll from his Shard of the Nightbringer. Rolled the D weapon on his chart, rolled a 6 on the damage and killed it on the top of turn 1. I returned the favor and D'd his Nightbringer off the field my very next turn. After that I had a wraithknight pick up the relic and he just couldn't down a 2nd one. Other than that one wraithknight I didnt lose a single wraithknight to anyone else.

Just be careful with all these new detachments is the morale of the story.

 Xerics wrote:
Yeah the new detachments and formations have led to some really slowed lists. Like 4 wraithknights in an 1850 game...

I took a 4 wraithknight list to a local tournament and stomped the competition to the ground. There was literally no strategy involved. Shoot the D cannons at the vehicles/MC's and use the 2 shoulder mounted star cannons to mop up infantry. I can't say it was the most fun I ever had though. This was on the day the codex came out though. Only necrons came close and that was my friend playing that army. he one shotted a wraithknight with a lucky C'Tan power roll from his Shard of the Nightbringer. Rolled the D weapon on his chart, rolled a 6 on the damage and killed it on the top of turn 1. I returned the favor and D'd his Nightbringer off the field my very next turn. After that I had a wraithknight pick up the relic and he just couldn't down a 2nd one. Other than that one wraithknight I didnt lose a single wraithknight to anyone else.

Just be careful with all these new detachments is the morale of the story.

A word of caution to the OP: This sort of play is common and pretty much expected in tournament/competitive settings, but it's not going to win you any friends. Some people like this style of play, and that's fine. This to me doesn't sound like much fun from either side, but if you want to build the cheesiest list imaginable, more power to you. If your meta is all about building the strongest, most overpowered lists available and ROLFSTOMPing the competition, you may enjoy these kinds of battles. I prefer a more casual, friendly game. Make sure you and your opponent are on the same page when building a list. You'll have a better time in the longrun if your opponents are having fun along with you.

I think I may actually be the only one not running detachments currently at my store. One of the Necron guys, who started posting here, runs a decurian and the spyder/wraith detachment. Another runs stuff from the wulfen book. So while I'm not looking to touch the tourney scene right now, I'm looking to level the playing field. Honestly, being able to throw Be'Lakor into a standard daemon army is the major draw, while keeping it bound.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I think I may actually be the only one not running detachments currently at my store. One of the Necron guys, who started posting here, runs a decurian and the spyder/wraith detachment. Another runs stuff from the wulfen book. So while I'm not looking to touch the tourney scene right now, I'm looking to level the playing field. Honestly, being able to throw Be'Lakor into a standard daemon army is the major draw, while keeping it bound.

The Daemon stuff overall isn't too bad honestly...

While we've got among the single best 'Decurion styled' bonuses in the game, (right up there with Necrons & Vanilla Marines), it's countered by the fact that most of the individual formations you're forced to take are pretty average to piss poor.

Of the new items, while there's some real gems in there, (such as Paradox for Tzeentch), it's at best no more OP than our current 'go-to' competitive BS stuff such as Flying Circus & Clown Car.
And still nowhere near the level of sheer stupidity that re-rolled 2++ is!

The updated psychic lores are decent enough, though poor Tzeentch is still royally screwed over by the basic 7th ed rules for casting... (those poor, poor Pink Horrors)
Just be sure to have a talk over with your opponent when using the new lores, as the CotW book DOES NOT! technically override our basic codex rules that state we can only roll up to half our total powers from the God specific lores!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I think I may actually be the only one not running detachments currently at my store. One of the Necron guys, who started posting here, runs a decurian and the spyder/wraith detachment. Another runs stuff from the wulfen book. So while I'm not looking to touch the tourney scene right now, I'm looking to level the playing field. Honestly, being able to throw Be'Lakor into a standard daemon army is the major draw, while keeping it bound.

The Daemon stuff overall isn't too bad honestly...

While we've got among the single best 'Decurion styled' bonuses in the game, (right up there with Necrons & Vanilla Marines), it's countered by the fact that most of the individual formations you're forced to take are pretty average to piss poor.

Of the new items, while there's some real gems in there, (such as Paradox for Tzeentch), it's at best no more OP than our current 'go-to' competitive BS stuff such as Flying Circus & Clown Car.
And still nowhere near the level of sheer stupidity that re-rolled 2++ is!

The updated psychic lores are decent enough, though poor Tzeentch is still royally screwed over by the basic 7th ed rules for casting... (those poor, poor Pink Horrors)
Just be sure to have a talk over with your opponent when using the new lores, as the CotW book DOES NOT! technically override our basic codex rules that state we can only roll up to half our total powers from the God specific lores!

I like to run Kairos as Warlord, and putting him in the formation will allow his warlord trait (reroll warp storm) with the formation +1/-1 to warp storm, plus he gets all Tzeentch spells. Which is great. Horrors are just bonus dice for him. Throwing Be'Lakor will also be a treat. Follow it up with a Screamerstar, the soul grinder formation, and a Khorne prince with the grimoire, and I should be in good shape.