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This is just me being curious. Most tournaments and pick-up games I see run 1850p matches. Why just 1850? Why not 1500 or an even 2000?

I am sure there must be a reason for the specific value, but I do not know what it is.

A lot of tournaments run at that point value.

It is the sweet spot. Enough points to make a good army but not too much to make it a dragged out game.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
A lot of tournaments run at that point value.

Yes, I know, which is why I ask. Why that particular points value?

Grief wrote:
It is the sweet spot. Enough points to make a good army but not too much to make it a dragged out game.

Do elaborate?

1500 is the norm here

Game scope has increased with the introduction of formations, flyers, fortifications, Apoc units and weapons, etc. so point limit needs to go up to give people a chance to fit all this extrs stuff into an army. However 1850 was very common in the USA during 4th and 5th edition, before all the extra stuff was added to the core game.

UK tournaments always used to be 1500. IDK why the US chose 1850 but I expect it's because everything is bigger in the US.

There isn't a good reason. Someone way back in the day picked 1850 and people just kept playing it

AFAIK, it has to do with the time it takes to play a game and what the game was designed for back in the day. It's a relic like most things in the wh40k rules. In 3rd it would take 2-3 hours to play a 2000pt game, but with the point deflation/power creep, you get more units per point and longer games. Thus the points have been dropped to accommodate for it.

Tbh, I think it should be dropped to 1650, or 1500 for tournaments, as points are dropping almost across the board, especially with things like the GSF.

Grief wrote:
It is the sweet spot. Enough points to make a good army but not too much to make it a dragged out game.

Exactly this. 1850 is just enough to bring an army big enough to cover all spots, but it's also restricting enough that 3 elite, FA and HS slots are restricting in a way to most armies.

I have never seen a 1875 points match in my life.

I've seen 1850, 2000, and even lower like 1000 or 1250. I've never seen 1875. That's a completely new number to me.

It's just a typo.

Was gonna say, my store normally runs 1000 ~ 1500 point games

2-3k are big games
anything over 3 k armies are usually reserved for event days where multiple people bring 3k armies

You are right, I meant 1850 (and wrote so in the OP). I have no idea why I wrote 1875 in the title.

Fix'd.

It all boils down to time scale. Where I play, we have a maximum ~10 hour window for our tournaments, and that's relatively typical. That means if you want 3 good rounds, with a break, you're talking 3 hours per game at most.

We've run tests, and 1850 averages pretty darn close to a 3 hour game with objectives and tables already set up. So that's what we're going with.

2500, 2000 and 3000 were all common locally in 5th ed, then when 6th hit I saw tons of people taking a look at the double FO allowance at 2k+, collectively shaking their heads, and saying they'll play 1999+1 points. I always thought 1850 became the standard after one too many arguments about people wanting to bring 4 Heavy slots to a 1999+1 tourney because it's 2k points.

2000 seems like it would be a much better point value. There is something satisfying mentally about a bunch of zeroes.

I think its just the norm since ITC picked it and has been running/putting out most of the FAQs for tourneys.

I would like to see 1500, I think it'd be easier/quicker in terms of tournament games.

1850 has always been the local game size around here since 4th.

Which is a shame because up until my most recent army, I never seemed to catch onto that and always made 2k lists that I had to modify down to 1850.

I want GW to step in and start running official tournaments... at 4k points. Then watch as everyone cries about it and GW makes a boat load of money off people who have only exactly 1850 points worth of models. It's what I would do. So many power gamers only have exactly what they need for 1850 lists. The way to make more money is by running official tournaments and upping the point limits on them. Also with 4k you will probably start seeing more titans as well since they will better fit and not take up 60-90% of your army in a single model.

 Xerics wrote:
I want GW to step in and start running official tournaments... at 4k points. Then watch as everyone cries about it and GW makes a boat load of money off people who have only exactly 1850 points worth of models. It's what I would do. So many power gamers only have exactly what they need for 1850 lists. The way to make more money is by running official tournaments and upping the point limits on them. Also with 4k you will probably start seeing more titans as well since they will better fit and not take up 60-90% of your army in a single model.

So....totally throw the last remnants of 40k tourney into the fire? 4k point matches would take forever, it would just be mini Apoc games, the amount of BS would be out the wazoo (imagine how many 16x Pink Horrors you can take in 4k points), and would be the final nail in the coffin for 40k.

How about no?

Its fluctuated over time. It used to be 1500 for everything initially, then GW started rubning 1750pt GT's in the US (though remained at 1500 in the UK for a while), then people like 2k games (my personal favorite). 1850 was a common compromise, largely to ensure games had time to complete as lots of 2k events had issues with time and game completion.

So...no real one answer, its a compromise for a variety of reasons.

Small enough that you can play in a couple hours, big enough that you get to take some neat toys beyond your core choices.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Small enough that you can play in a couple hours, big enough that you get to take some neat toys beyond your core choices.

I think this is the main answer. 1500-2000 was always the sweet spot. For a while, 2000 felt like the main goal, because only at those point levels could you really bring enough basic units plus all the fun choices in your codex. In the past couple years, the game has drifted more and more towards apocalypses hybrid. They made infantry cheaper and easier to kill, while also making vehicles/MC cheaper. The result is bring so many fun toys usually equals cheese zone so I suspect the game will slow but surely creep lower toward the 1500 side now as things continue.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. Anyway, 1850 is what I learned with. I prefer 2k though.

1500 - 1750 was the norm over here until the recent surge in decurion-like metaformations. From Codex: Space Marines onwards 1850 has become the new standard.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
I want GW to step in and start running official tournaments... at 4k points. Then watch as everyone cries about it and GW makes a boat load of money off people who have only exactly 1850 points worth of models. It's what I would do. So many power gamers only have exactly what they need for 1850 lists. The way to make more money is by running official tournaments and upping the point limits on them. Also with 4k you will probably start seeing more titans as well since they will better fit and not take up 60-90% of your army in a single model.

So....totally throw the last remnants of 40k tourney into the fire? 4k point matches would take forever, it would just be mini Apoc games, the amount of BS would be out the wazoo (imagine how many 16x Pink Horrors you can take in 4k points), and would be the final nail in the coffin for 40k.

How about no?

Mini?

Jeeze, when I played 4k points was well into apoc. We played up to 3k standard regularly, but 3001 was Apoc.

Depends on the region. Back in toronto the most popular points limit was 1500, with some places liking 1000. Rarely you get a drop-in game with 2000 points, and most people think 1850 is weird (if they wanted something in between, it's usually 1750).

In the lower mainland and Victoria area, 1850 point games are pretty rare. I've seen only a handful of events at that limit over the last five years.

Most events - and pickup games, for that matter - around here are either 1500 or 1750. It's easy to deal in 250-point chunks.

2000 point games happen as well, but are less common. I love doing 2500 point games occasionally, but not everybody is ready for such a game at the clubs or game stores I visit to find a game.

In ye olde days a lot of tourneys used to run at 1999+1 format. Why not 2000? It used to allow you take 2 CADs as it's 2*1000. And people wanted to reduce 'spam'. 1999+1 is just 2000 points but with a single CAD. But than as a result of power creep, unit's point cost got reduced and as there were more and more units on board, they started to struggle with limited time, they reduced the common format from 1999+1 to 1850.

As for now, formations, allies and multi-cads allow you to spam whatever you want anywayz, so 1850 is just some sort of an old custom.