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With the quite nice addition of some interesting wargear to the Salamanders coming up, I've decided to make some changes to my Double CAD Salamanders list. Since nobody has points cost yet, I have left an allowance of 60 points to take care of the cost of gear. Probably won't need all 60 and i'll end up putting points back somewhere, but thats besides the point.

CAD 1

Vulkan
Harath Shen - MC his plasma pistol

Command Squad - 4 Melta and Stormshield, 1 Nocturnes Fury (I think thats what its called, the torrent flamer) and Storm Shield

2 x 10 Tactical Squad - Rhino with extra storm bolter and HK, Flamer, Combi flamer, Multi Melta

1 x 5 Assault Squad - Drop pod, 2 flamers

CAD 2

Bray'Arth Ashmantle
Chapter Master - Artificer Armour, Storm Shield, MC Thunder Hammer, Digital Weapons

2 x 5 Scout Squad - LS Storm with Heavy Bolter, 4 Bolters, MC Combi Plasma

Drop Pod

General idea would be to cram the command squad, vulkan, shen, and the chapter master into a unit and drop them turn 1 with Bray'Arth. Keep the chapter master in front, as he'll be insanely hard to take out with a 2+/3++/4+++. Assuming the unit isn't locked into a combat by turn 2, I use the torrent flamer and orbital strike to punch a second large hole somewhere. Its a massive alpha strike with scouting storms dumping the cerberus launcher blind shots into crowds as well. Combat squad the tacticals, the serge with the special taking 3 bolters and leaving the multi melta in the rhino to act as stationary gun platforms once they're halfway up the table.

Ideas? I'm aware I could turn my semi deathstar into a nasty one if I take a red scorpions librarius with loth taking invisiblity and 2 ML 2s rolling on the new tables, but I try to play friendly. The idea of an eternal warrior with a rerollable 2+/3++/4+++ thats ALSO invisible is pretty enticing though.

Just a general mention, I don't know too much about Salamanders, so I'm more intending to tell your your weaknesses and then it's up to you to decide if the risks are worth it rather than reducing your effectiveness in another area, or what changes you should make to counter your weaknesses. (Opening up your list potentially to other weaknesses, but that's the nature of the game for you.) At the very least, you should be able to gameplan more effectively against lists you're weak against, which is half the battle.

Anyway, your list certainly is killy enough with your meltastar, but you do only have 6 squads and <40 models. You will not be able to compete will most lists for grabbing objectives, so you will find yourself going the distance and losing on points. You also won't have much staying power, around turn 3 your list will have lost much of it's effectiveness so you're hoping to do enough damage on the first two turns to keep you in the rest of them game, but you don't have a lot of ability to spread fire so you're going to be overkilling a lot, which sounds cool but is a big waste of dakka. Stomp attacks from gargantuan creatures and superheavies that ignore all saves can wipe your your melta star and characters in short order, and you don't have a counter for them. Wraithknights, whom have jump, will have free reign. Your anti-infantry weapons will have a field day vs orks/AM/tyranids, but there's not enough of them. Most true horde lists will have over 100 models, and 4 flamers and 2 heavy bolters will barely make a dent. Your star is also extremely susceptible to being tar pitted. (Scarabs, boyz, conscripts, etc.) Every turn they're stuck trying to murder 6 point models is a massive waste and they don't really have the manoeuvrability to avoid it. Also, your only anti heavy vehicle unit is the command squad, so if they have 3 or more AV 12+ vehicles, you will be hard pressed to destroy them. (Tau, Eldar, AM, Orks maybe too. Your squad can only target one vehicle at a time! If you only damage a vehicle and not kill it, can you afford to waste multiple rounds of shooting on a single vehicle?) Lastly, the command squad is kind of a weak for a bodyguard unit. You would tear your hair out if you lost 4 or 5 vs an elite unit and lost combat with all those nice characters, but you do have ATSKNF so that's mitigated. But they're still vulerable to losing those models from shooting and forcing a test again. (Even though you'll probably regroup, you can't make any moves after regrouping, making your very immobile unit even more so.)

My one suggestion, you mention you're trying to "play friendly" but honestly, this is not a friendly list. You're taking a half measure and it's giving you neither a top tier competitive list or a friendly list. Maybe consider making two lists, one for each circumstance?

Thanks for the input! Your numbers are a bit off (its 51 models, 3 heavy flamers, 1 torrent flamer, and 6 flamers if you include the combi versions, then after combat squads and leaving transports I'll have 14 units), but I get what you're saying. Its definitely one of the things I struggled with when I was first learning salamanders. I've been running the meltastar a while now, and its only real weakness in the past has been instant death negating the 4+ FNP roll from Harath Shen, as the entire unit has a 3+ invuln and can generally plow through things in close combat after shooting a unit first (5 meltas, a plasma shot, and a heavy flamer before 15 strength 4 attacks, 4 strength 6 ap3 with a reroll on hit and wound, and 4 strength 4 ap3). The problem was that even vulkan will go down to a bad save against a krak missile. Adding the eternal warrior, an orbital strike, and a bunch of strength 8 ap2 attacks on the charge rounds out the unit pretty well I think, but its a list that may require play testing for a couple months to iron it out.

From my experience playing Salamanders, their strength comes from piling on rerolls with just about everything that isn't a bolter. Against that situation with 3 or more AV12 or higher models, I can kill or cripple 2 on the drop - command squad obviously, but Bray'Arth also has a twinlinked melta shot that occasionally sees the light of day, and worst case scenario he can just charge one and beat it to death haha.

My meta is a bit odd in that their are a few players who like to show up and just beat people to death with cheese, while everyone else plays middle of the road not quite fluffy not quite top tier lists. The only super heavies that see the table are a few knights taken as allies and never more than 1, which will die against that much twinlinked melta, or a couple guys who use wraith knights. Obviously the stomps are a problem, but in general I don't have to deal with them very often as most of the eldar guys leave the knights at home so people are actually willing to play against them

Sounds good, rock on!

Quick mathhammer for survivability of the new melta star:

Against ap2 or better : 1/3 get through the invuln, 1/2 get through the FNP, so a 1/6 chance of a wound getting through.

Against ap3 or worse : 1/6 get through armour, 1/2 through FNP, 1/12 chance of taking a wound.

With some careful planning and proper targetting, I can aim to take out ap2 and 1 threats on the first two turns and aim for mop up for the rest of the game. Odds aren't great that the chapter master will make it all the way throught the game, but thats fine as he only has to tank the things that can instant death the squad anyways


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Appreciate the input!