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 vercingatorix wrote:

Patriarch wrote:

 vercingatorix wrote:
So do people think that block on joining a patriarch and a magus to a sub assault will block iconward and a CAD primus as well?

It just says "No" it doesn't give a reasoning. Like others have said I doubt I'll bother with more than one primus now but it might be nice to place my iconward a little more reliably.

The reasoning is that units generally lose funky deployment rules if not everyone in the unit carries that rule.

You are correct that those other ICs would invalidate the extra rolls for CA.

Well I guess if the patriarch says so, that's how it is.

It's good to see the brood hypnosis is working!

 BBAP wrote:

My other debate I've been having is how worthwhile the primus is in the subterranean. He's essentially the same cost as another 5 man clawmorph squad.

I don't bother with him anymore, for that reason.

I still like him but I use big (20) acolyte units and that extra d6 is very helpful. If you only use small GSC units he dies to quick to be of any use.

Once assaulted a ravenwing command squad with invisibility with 2x10 metamorphs and that first turn reroll (zealot) really paid off.

Did a 3 round-tournament with my GSC armylist and would like to share my thoughts.


FIRST ROUND
table quarters with adjusted mealstrom + big guns never tire + difference in kill points (max 8)

Enemy: Infernal tetrad 4 damon prince + warpflame host with 9 exalted flamers and 1 herald on disc + 5 furies.


He just keeps everything on the ground and moves in to corrupt all the objectives he can.

I deployed 1 patriarch with genestealers + 5 acolytes + deployed/infiltrated all my subterranean uprising units in the opposite corner. My first turn I removed(rtts) all the units except the 5 acolytes near the comm link.


Then everything came in.

Was capable of locking in the exalted flamer unit and khorne daemon Prince and its was a full fight for 4 turns straight.

BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD:


He was capable of keeping his cursed earth up and running and that Tzeentch prince with 2+ reroll was not going away. Then I made the mistake of trying to finish of the nurgle prince with my patriarch unit but forgot he got an instant kill weapon. I went for the wipe but could not pull it off. a 11-9 win for him. I didn't get summoning and that really sucked.

ROUND TWO:
vanguard with adjusted mealstrom + 5 objectives + difference in kill points (max 8)
wulfen deathstar with runepriests+celestine+ priests + sammuel and all that jazz...



I deployed/infiltrated everything


He moved everything forward and shot with his runepriest sum lightining towards sum acolytes but only killed 2.



I removed everyting and he just picked up sum objectives.

Then the came from the shadows:


At the left he got his runepriest and thats where I attacked with my '6' result units. killing 2 runepriest really help. At that point I just kept summoning units and kept him in close combat for 5 full turns. He failed his 'hit and run' once and after that he hit and run away in his own turn but it was already to late.

BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD


Last turn I blocked his remaining deathstar unit from the objectives and claimed 5 objectives + mealstrom + sum extra kill points. 20-0 for me.

ROUND 3
Dawn of war with adjusted mealstrom + emperors will objectives + difference in kill points (max 8)
Eldar jetibikes, wraithguard in waveserpent, wraithknight, 3x warp spiders, callexus assassin and sum stuff.

Also didn't get summoning and no first turn. He was ready to take me on


Everything sucked, stupid mistakes, bad Cult ambush roll's, bad shooting, bad assault moves, losing the Patriarch after failing a 4 inch assault move, and no fearless bubble anymore, grrr. Lost this one 19-1.

evaluation:
- Not having summoning really sucked! I might add another patriarch for more summoning/dice/fearless.
- I also consider adding the doting throng instead of sum acolytes/metamorphs. I would like to have more models/wounds to tie up units and wait for reinforcements. Rending is nice but against inv-saves it doesn't matter anyway.
- I also have to be carefull with my patriarchs. With 2 of them and possible 1 sucking at cult ambush I need to focus around my fearless bubble.
- I often want to be a treat to everyting on the field but I got to pick a flank and not be afraid of the other half of the enemies army. Ignore what you can ignore and pick them out later.

still a lot of learning too do...

Great report! My non warhammer question is why you write with full complete sentences and correct spelling except for using "sum" instead of "some" if English isn't your first language I apologize, the rest of it was great. (I am no saint in this regard, despite decades of practice my spelling needs help.)

I agree with your final assessment as well. I actually took out a patriarch from my list to take a doting throng and more magus because I was tired of having a flank with no fearless.

Eldar can be a rough match up if you refuse to roll 6s. My advice is to just keep recycling as much as possible since every six is basically a dead enemy unit.

With that being said, that doesn't look like the flame skatchach so maybe just deploying up close and eating a turn of shooting with shrouding wouldn't hurt that badly.

I'm also surprised you managed to stay in combat for any length of time with wulfen. I've played them twice and both times I've actually relied on massed ambush and pistols and lasguns to kill them or just ignoring them outright. They're just way too scary in close combat.

 vercingatorix wrote:
Great report! My non warhammer question is why you write with full complete sentences and correct spelling except for using "sum" instead of "some" if English isn't your first language I apologize, the rest of it was great. (I am no saint in this regard, despite decades of practice my spelling needs help.)

I agree with your final assessment as well. I actually took out a patriarch from my list to take a doting throng and more magus because I was tired of having a flank with no fearless.

Eldar can be a rough match up if you refuse to roll 6s. My advice is to just keep recycling as much as possible since every six is basically a dead enemy unit.

With that being said, that doesn't look like the flame skatchach so maybe just deploying up close and eating a turn of shooting with shrouding wouldn't hurt that badly.

Thanks! English is not my first language but I like it if you correct me, because there is no reason for my not wanting to improve my english writing.


I still gotta test 3 scenario's against different armies and different missions.

Scenario 1: Deploy the subterranean uprising + unit behind the defence line and return to the shadow, and go for second turn cult ambush(+ reserves)
after that...
-Scenario 1.1: Go for the throat and go full assault.
-Scenario 1.2: take out a flank and be ready to go back to the shadows, replenish and go for a second assault wave.

Scenario 2: deploy everything in their face and go for the assault and dominate the field. Take the maelstrom objectives.
after that...
scenario 2.1: you keep first turn and wreck havoc
scenario 2.2: you get seized and you either push thru with first turn shrouded or return to the shadow to lick your wounds and come back second turn.

scenario 3: total guerrilla style. Take the objectives and only use the '6' results to attack units and keep taking units off the board with return to the shadow and keep returning units with cult ambush.

It will depend on how they deploy. A lot of people like to castle hard against GSC so until they learn better. I like to deploy everything sort of mid board where I'll get a lot of cover and get probably score maelstrom points. Maybe put 1-2 sacrificial sixes in their face to keep them occupied. I also like to put my summoned unit in their face (ambush roll permitting), 20 neophytes are pretty annoying to get rid of.

So hopefully they're first turn of movement is blocked, they kill all your nearby but you've had a turn of board control. If you want to keep your army on the board threatening assault you can continue that board control while they peel you off the board. Hope the game doesn't go till 7 so you can maintain your lead in maelstrom and board control.

Hi shogun,

It was me playing against you. Mission one. I really enjoyed playing against GSC. I even consider starting an army myself.

Thanks for the great game!

Khornegod wrote:
Hi shogun,

It was me playing against you. Mission one. I really enjoyed playing against GSC. I even consider starting an army myself.

Thanks for the great game!

Ah cool, you're also on Dakka! It was a great game indeed.

Man it must have taken you a month straight to get that many dudes painted Shogun. Any speed painting tips? haha

 Red Corsair wrote:
Man it must have taken you a month straight to get that many dudes painted Shogun. Any speed painting tips? haha

Yes, I did speed-paint.

- first black undercoat,
- then drybrush boltgun metal the body + agrax earthshade, after that,
- then daemonette hide for the body parts + carroburn crimson shade + finish drybrush daemonette hide with a bit of white in the mix,
- clothes/robes, all units got a different colour to keep them apart,
- Them sum small details like pistols, eyes, claws and stuff,

So it's alle about drybrushing and shades.

I still need to finish them but for now they're tabletop ready.

I am just at the assembly phase and while I play with list building it is getting scary how many models are required ha ha. I have become more and more of a perfectionist with my armies and I think I need to make some temporary concessions if I ever want to play the army in the near future ha ha.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I am just at the assembly phase and while I play with list building it is getting scary how many models are required ha ha. I have become more and more of a perfectionist with my armies and I think I need to make some temporary concessions if I ever want to play the army in the near future ha ha.

I only bought a few boxes and made a mold for the acolytes/metamorphs to increase the amount of bodies. I combined this with genestealer bits and this way I could field that amount of units without paying to much. I don't mind paying for a decent army but i'am not going to pay 30 bucks for 5 acolytes if I run the risk that the next codex could ruin my whole army in a tournament setting. Before this army I was working on a conversion-daemon horrrors army and then suddenly the horrors lose malefic powers and my whole army was useless.

I don't feel guilty towards GW for this because I don't sell this stuff to others and I still bought the GSC-codex and a few boxes from them, and if I didn't do this then I would have stopped buying stuff a year ago. Nobody thinks it's a problem when players use armies that are not theirs or somebody making 6 riptides out of toy-robots.

I like playing at tournaments and a lot of tournament-players in my area are actually moving towards age of sigmar. People just don't like buying and paining a bunch of stuf that could be useless the next day.

Have any of you tried running a Doting Throng? i have found it to be useful as it puts a lot more fearless cheep bodies on the board to block with and the small bonus with zealot is nice. I pair that with one Patriarch instead of taking two of them for my fearless. Thoughts on that?

What is everyone else taking for fearless

IVIOOSE wrote:
Have any of you tried running a Doting Throng? i have found it to be useful as it puts a lot more fearless cheep bodies on the board to block with and the small bonus with zealot is nice. I pair that with one Patriarch instead of taking two of them for my fearless. Thoughts on that?

What is everyone else taking for fearless

I'am going to add it to my army but I don't think you should only bring one patriarch. You need at least 2 and 4 psykers is the minimum if you want a reliable 'summoning'.

I think I'am going to like the doting throng because it gives a little more shooting punch (flamers + shotguns) to take down jetbikes and stuff, but the also can assault with furious charge (icon) and zaelot, so thats still a mean punch. Almost all my opponents wanted me to confirm that neophytes indeed got pistols and close combat weapons( WHAT,.?? The got 3 attacks each?!!).

Also don't forget to give the magus in the doting throng the croughling and start rolling on the broodmind powers with him. If you don't get summoning then you can still use the blessings on your neophytes.

shogun wrote:
Almost all my opponents wanted me to confirm that neophytes indeed got pistols and close combat weapons( WHAT,.?? The got 3 attacks each?!!).

Hmm. Can you please confirm that again?
They certainly do have pistols, but my codex says that only a neophyte leader gets a close combat weapon.

Arson Fire wrote:

shogun wrote:
Almost all my opponents wanted me to confirm that neophytes indeed got pistols and close combat weapons( WHAT,.?? The got 3 attacks each?!!).

Hmm. Can you please confirm that again?
They certainly do have pistols, but my codex says that only a neophyte leader gets a close combat weapon.

Damn your right, I was reading that wrong..

...ah well...learning every day.

IVIOOSE wrote:
Have any of you tried running a Doting Throng? i have found it to be useful as it puts a lot more fearless cheep bodies on the board to block with and the small bonus with zealot is nice. I pair that with one Patriarch instead of taking two of them for my fearless. Thoughts on that?

Big Acolyte squads with Zealot would be neat, but I'm not really sold on the Formation. I don't find myself casting blessings on my dudes all that often so that bonus is wasted - plus, to keep up that Zealot bubble you need to be pushing your Maguses forward, which isn't really where a Magus wants to be in my opinion.

I can't see past Patriarchs for Fearless. It's 50pts on top of the Magus per head, but you're paying for a much tougher model that fits in easier with an Insurrection army. T5 alone is worth the extra points IMO since it makes walking around alone for a turn less deadly for them. They also have Infiltrate built in, so you can attach CAD Patirarchs to Insurrection units without giving up their Ambush deployment and your Insurrection dude gets Shrouded first turn.

i find it more for the use of just having large units to absorb overwatch and tie up big units. also have some shooting(not amazing) but it is something. the fearless is nice and they make for good blocking units.

as for the summoning i actually use a psykana division as they auto get the summoning, are cheep and make a ton of units. it meshes well with the GSC and i cant see myself not taking it anymore.

I run the doting throng with 4 squads of 10 and really like it. I only have 1 Patriarch in my army but a bunch of magus's so they almost always have zealot and often I attach magnus so they keep fighting with high quality attacks since zealot sticks.

I don't think I've every rerolled a blessing on them in 7 games. With that being said, I see that as a bonus, not as their main purpose. I do summoning, then usually any blessings go on the bigger squad of 20 in the sub up. If THAT isn't possible then mass hypnosis is way better than any blessing, at least in close combat. If I play against a really shooty army and go all in on telepathic, then I may use that rule more but it hasn't happened yet.

IVIOOSE wrote:
i find it more for the use of just having large units to absorb overwatch and tie up big units. also have some shooting(not amazing) but it is something. the fearless is nice and they make for good blocking units.

Right, but you get all that with your Brood Cycle dudes, who also get bonuses for being within 6" of one another and extended Iconward FNP range.

Fearless is really easy to come by for GSC so the Fearlessness from Zealot isn't a big deal, and the very idea of putting a Magus in combat makes me baulk. When you're doing it so some Neophytes can have RRTH every turn? Blech.

as for the summoning i actually use a psykana division as they auto get the summoning, are cheep and make a ton of units. it meshes well with the GSC and i cant see myself not taking it anymore.

It's not horrendous, I'll grant you, but the one time I tried it the Psykana dudes sat in a corner doing nothing the whole game while my GSC psykers ate through their Warp dice. The issue with them, for me, is that the Psykana units require Warp Dice to be useful, whereas if you're stacking native GSC psykers they have a purpose besides Warp batteries.

I guess if you're going for max Warp Charge in a comp format then Psykana Division is the only way to fly, because it generates way more than you could possibly do by stacking GSC psykers. However, I think the second CAD adds more to the army and is a more TAC choice.

PS: Never, ever summon Daemons into your GSC army. I once tried to run my Daemons as allies and holy Hivemind was it ever a disaster. Two CTA Allies who both want to be in close combat at all times? That's not good.

With the split rule being a thing. I kind of want to grab one regular summoning with a magus. Eat the auto-perils and get some pink horrors to control area and be really annoying to get rid of. Pink horrors are now about the best backfield objective holding unit in the game.

regular GSC i don't believe can roll on Deamonology

and in all of my games with the psykana i have never once had a problem summoning deamons alongside the GSC as it adds a buffer zone and pink horrors just clogg up the nasty deathstars so the gsc can go after the rest of the army.

To be honest I was thinking more about Flesh Hounds and Daemonettes and the like. The Horrors thing might be worth trying.

The deamon summoning just gives more options incase you need to tie things up or go for fast units to get on objectives. Also the nice possession to get a D thirster or a LOC to help with sky fire incase you need it.

I ran a psykana at etc and it did well and now with gsc it's even better as it gives you backfield units so all of your gsc can go up the board.

IVIOOSE wrote:
The deamon summoning just gives more options incase you need to tie things up or go for fast units to get on objectives. Also the nice possession to get a D thirster or a LOC to help with sky fire incase you need it.

I ran a psykana at etc and it did well and now with gsc it's even better as it gives you backfield units so all of your gsc can go up the board.

I don't think GSC need any help tying things up or Ambushing onto objectives, and they certainly don't need help in close combat. I'm not sure they need backfield units either, but Horrors might fill that gap if you feel a need, and to be honest a few extra Warp Dice are never to be sniffed at. A skyfire LoC might be nice too, though it assumes you're rolling Possession so it's a bonus rather than a selling point. The other stuff though, D-Thirsters and Daemonettes and the like, all of that wants to be in the same game-space as my GSC dudes, and One Eye Open makes that very problematic.

That is all very true but you have to remember you dont roll one eye open when In Combat so it's easy to mitigate it. With horrors it also gives the list some decent shooting and the ability to summon burning chariots.

A single squad of horrors is 50 wounds with a 5 + invul that can go to ground in ruins for a 3+ cover save all re rolling ones. They also never run away.

I say that's a whole let better at holding an objective than anything we have. considering most of our stuff can't go to ground or if it does has moral issues then. Not to mention that you can't even get rid of the horrors in one phase!

Also, I guess I could be wrong. Every psyker in the game can roll malefic unless specified otherwise.

IVIOOSE wrote:
i find it more for the use of just having large units to absorb overwatch and tie up big units. also have some shooting(not amazing) but it is something. the fearless is nice and they make for good blocking units.

as for the summoning i actually use a psykana division as they auto get the summoning, are cheep and make a ton of units. it meshes well with the GSC and i cant see myself not taking it anymore.

You really have me intrigued here. How expensive is that detachment? It generates quite a bit of warp charge, doesn't it? What are you running for the rest of your list?

Sorry for all the questions, it really has me thinking! Lately I've been working in a CAD of two patriarchs, two acolyte squads and a ADL to help with the army, I'm tempted to try this option out.

Psykana Division is 255pts base, 280 for an ML2 Primaris, and 330 if you want a Commissar for all the Wyrdvanes. With an ML2 Primaris the whole shebang generates 5 WC base, plus one for every five Wyrdvanes within 12" of the Primaris, so you can end up with 8WC from this Formation alone. If you're playing ITC comp you get 3 Detachments - your two GSC can generate a maximum of 8 Warp Charges total, so a Psykana effectively doubles your WC.

IVIOOSE wrote:That is all very true but you have to remember you dont roll one eye open when In Combat so it's easy to mitigate it. With horrors it also gives the list some decent shooting and the ability to summon burning chariots.

The test is at the start of the turn though, and you're not going to be in CC 100% of the time your models are on the board and in a position to be near one another. If you don't get a decent Consolidate, for example, you could end up with a Thirster and a bunch of Hybrids standing in midfield eyeing one another suspiciously before they both get burned down next turn. Not to mention the Daemons interfere with RttS.

It's situational at best, and IMHO it's just not worth the hassle.

vercingatorix wrote:I say that's a whole let better at holding an objective than anything we have. considering most of our stuff can't go to ground or if it does has moral issues then. Not to mention that you can't even get rid of the horrors in one phase!

I don't disagree, but again, I don't think this is a tool GSC need in their kit. There's no real need to turtle up on a flag if you can just teleport onto it when you draw the card for it.

That said it's not a terrible option. Horrors would be significantly less of a pain in the ass than melee Daemons, and the extra Warp Charge(s) would be handy. Sucks that they can't have Malefic powers anymore though.

Also, I guess I could be wrong. Every psyker in the game can roll malefic unless specified otherwise.

That's how I read it too. I've yet to see anything convincing that says this is not the case.

 vercingatorix wrote:
A single squad of horrors is 50 wounds

Wait what?