Hive Fleet Beelzebub 1500

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**hoya4life3381**

Our store plays semi-competitively with esteemed fluff veterans laying a sharp tonguelashing down on players/armies that are too min-maxed. For example for Nids, everything is pretty much okay except Godzilla at 1500 pts. The logic is that the average player walking in won't be ready for the list and the fact that Godzilla is perfect at that level being able to get all TMC's and bare troops while other armies struggle to fit in counters. Godzilla at 1850 or 2000 is deemed fine, pretty fair I feel.<?

Here's Hive Fleet Beelzebub, a balanced, non-godzilla, slightly stealer-based list:

Hive Tyrant - Wings, Toxin Sacs, Toxic Miasma, Flesh Hooks, and 2 Scything Talons

Broodlord - Extended Carapace, Toxin Sacs, and Flesh Hooks

5 Genestealer retinue - Extended Carapace

6 Genestealers - Extended Carapace

16 Hormgaunts

12 Spinegaunts

3 Warriors - Winged, Rending and Scything Talons, and Adrenal Gland Initiative

1 Zoanthrope - Warp Blast and Synapse

Carnifex - Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, and Reinforced Chitin

Total: 1500 pts

Lots of chaos, necron, and marines players as in any environment. Most missions played at beta and gamma ensure that my broodlord infiltrates. Broodlord gets extended carapace because his retinue will go down pretty easily and he will be on his own frequently. His attacks are guaranteed to bypass armor which is mathmatically better than equivalent genestealers with average number of rending attacks. Granted, rending has better potential to do more since you could roll all sixes. I'd rather have guaranteed power attacks since I have lots of stealers in my list elsewhere and a toughness 5 3+ save guy running around.

Flying tyrant has pretty basic setup. Don't feel warpfield is worth the points at this level. Decided on toxic miasma to help out in case of characters and is a good defensive upgrade. Implant attack is appealing but you also need to have adrenal gland initiative to make it worth it.

Horms travel with the flyrant and act as a retinue and a powerfist damage soaker. Spinegaunts are meatshield close combat filler against dreads, monsterous characters, and squads. I don't really like warriors in this edition, but they aren't bad. They provide synapse while not requiring synapse like raveners. Also, they act as a redundancy and provide fast synapse allowing redeployment. The flyrant, broodlord, and flying warriors provide me with 3 fast and forward synapse points allowing gaunts to tie up enemies across a wide front.

Zoanthrope acts as a backup synapse that will catchup with the faster moving units and keep carnis from Inst. Behavior. Carnis are my main anti-tank/stunning unit. Their first priority is skimmers since normal tanks can be killed much easier in CC. Gave both my carnis an extra wound because I want them lasting as long as possible to stun vehicles until I can get close. Escalation is not really a problem at all for my army. Carnis have the range and come in at the same time as vehicles. Flyrant and horms have the speed to come in as a reserve force. Having 3 synapse creatures on the board and long/range fast TMC's help mitigate escalation immensely.

Opinions and comments would be greatly appreciated.

**BZArcher**

If you're going to use the broodlord to infiltrate in and be a front liner, maybe scutters on the other 'stealers to bring them into CC faster, and keep some of the fire off of the BL and the Flyrant? Failing that, I'd also seriously think finding the points to throw flesh hooks on the 'stealers.

Otherwise, looks like it'll do what you're looking for.

**yakface**

I think your list looks solid, no terrible unit configurations or other overall problems.

That said:

1) I'm not personally a fan of the Broodlord. I think a walking Tyrant is a better 2nd HQ choice if you feel you need one. However, if you guys don't play any Alpha missions, then I guess it's not a terrible choice.

2) I'm really, really not a fan of the flying warriors. They are just too vulnerable without extended carapace to stick their head out from behind cover. If they have to stay behind cover it really limits their usefulness in providing another synapse point. I just think you should go with leaping warriors (w/extended carapace). They will be quick enough to keep up with the Spinegaunts (as long as you string back the gaunts a bit), and they are much more durable. They don't have to fear every single unit just obliterating them with their bolters.

**hoya4life3381**

Yakface, like always your advice is really solid and on the mark. I think the list I had is pretty fluffy and pretty solid. You're right the warriors and broodlords are suboptimal choices and not as effective, but won't handicap the list too much. Here's a less fluff based list that I made that I wonder if you could review as well. I think it looks really good on paper, a theoryhammer list....

Hive Tyrant - Wings, Toxin Sac, and 2 Scything Talons

Hive Tyrant - Enhanced Senses, Toxin Sac, Venom Cannon, and TL-Devourer
2 Tyrant Guard

6 Genestealers - Extended Carapace and Scuttlers

6 Genestealers - Extended Carapace and Scuttlers

6 Genestealers - Extended Carapace and Scuttlers

6 Genestealers - Extended Carapace and Scuttlers

12 Gaunts - Spinefist and Scuttlers

12 Gaunts - Spinefist and Scuttlers

Ravener - Rending and Scything Talons

Ravener - Rending and Scything Talons

Ravener - Rending and Scything Talons

2 Zoanthropes - Warp Blast and Synapse

Carnifex - Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, and Barbed Strangler

Total: 1500 pts

This list has no real fat in it. The idea of this list is that everything should be in CC by turn two. Genestealers, raveners, flyrant, and spinegaunts all will average around 30.5 inches of move by turn 2. 6 inch scuttle + 12 inch move + 6 inch charge + 7 inch average fleet over 2 turns. Walking tyrant and carni try to stun vehicles, especially skimmers while zoas move up and shoot/provide synapse. I have 4 synapse creatures with one being very durable. The spinegaunts are powerfist meatshields and also can tie up walkers. I want everything to be in proximity and creating pressure by turn 2. This list is also pretty resiliant to escalation. I have 2 synapse on the board. The tyrants and carnis come in and are effective cause of speed/range, while raveners can deep strike if so choose. I know this is a one trick pony, but at the same time I believe nids are better off with one fast wave rather than a slower wave attack.