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Hi Dakka Dakka,

I'm going to be playing against necrons for the first time this weekend and have no clue about them as an army. We exchanged lists ahead of time because of unfamiliarity on both sides so I know what he is bringing in the decurion. He's running in addition to the mandatory reclamation legion, a destroyer cult, canoptek harvest, and judicator battalion. Everything seems pretty stock except for the overlord has the veil and war scythe, the destroyer lord has a war scythe as well.

I'm running a FSE CAD with a fir blade and naked crisis suits tax, 2 Y'vahras with Stim and EWO, a storm surge with shield and pulse driver, a riptide wing all burst tides with precision shots. And a drone net with 4*4 marker drones.

I know the most threatening of these is probably the canoptek harvest, followed by the destroyer cult. I'm planning to focus fire on the spider with the riptide wing. After that just use weight of fire to take out the wraiths while kiting them. The storm surge will try and do work on the units of destroyers.

I will probably use the Y'vahra to take out the two triarch stalkers/ praetorians.

I don't know if there is anything I overlooked or if my threat assessments are wrong. Any help would be much appreciated!

You should win. He has diluted his list with the Judicator Battalion.

The key for the Necron player to win against Tau is multiple wraith units. If the wraith units survive and get to your gunline, the game is over for the Tau player.

The Triarch Praetorians aren't even close to the survivability of wraiths so they should die easily before getting to your gunline.

Definitely kill the Spyder or Spyders first but be aware that the Adaptive Subroutines rule lasts a whole game turn.

col_impact wrote:


Definitely kill the Spyder or Spyders first but be aware that the Adaptive Subroutines rule lasts a whole game turn.

Not if the Tau player goes first. He can kill the threat before it starts.

Target priority:

1) Spyder
2) Wraiths (easier to focus down under weight of fire once spyder is dead)
3) Destroyers
4) Praetorians

I'm not sure where he plans to stick the D Lord with the scythe. Probably the Destroyers which is why they're at #3. The overlord's squad with the veil will probably force you to deal with those units sooner. For example, if he puts the veil in with the wraiths and deep strikes them towards you turn 1, you're just gonna have to deal with them (potentially before you kill the spyder if you don't have enough firepower).

But you should win without too much issue. You outrange him, the stormsurge can stomp and your Y'vahras are monsters. They just kill everything. Just make sure that you don't push the Y'vahras too far forward and let the wraiths counter-assault you for flaming a cheap troop choice. Not worth.

The Destroyer Lord will be with the Wraiths, no questions asked.

 luke1705 wrote:

col_impact wrote:


Definitely kill the Spyder or Spyders first but be aware that the Adaptive Subroutines rule lasts a whole game turn.

Not if the Tau player goes first. He can kill the threat before it starts.

Target priority:

1) Spyder
2) Wraiths (easier to focus down under weight of fire once spyder is dead)
3) Destroyers
4) Praetorians

I'm not sure where he plans to stick the D Lord with the scythe. Probably the Destroyers which is why they're at #3. The overlord's squad with the veil will probably force you to deal with those units sooner. For example, if he puts the veil in with the wraiths and deep strikes them towards you turn 1, you're just gonna have to deal with them (potentially before you kill the spyder if you don't have enough firepower).

But you should win without too much issue. You outrange him, the stormsurge can stomp and your Y'vahras are monsters. They just kill everything. Just make sure that you don't push the Y'vahras too far forward and let the wraiths counter-assault you for flaming a cheap troop choice. Not worth.

If the Necron player goes second he can deploy the Spyders out of sight to greatly reduce the amount of firepower brought to bear on them. I do this even if I am going first since you never know if the other player will seize the initiative.

A proper "cheese" Necron list will usually win against Tau.

Of course if the battlefield has little or no terrain on it then the odds start to go definitely towards Tau.

I don't know how to play tau, but I know how to kill a necron and pack as many ap 2-4 STR 8 large blasts, that insta death is vital in making sure you kill their necrons, their lack of armour save and -1 to their reanimation is literally the best chance you will get at killing the buggers.

Wow so much great information thank you everyone!

Wouldn't putting the destroyer lord with the wraiths slow them down? I understand that this would help make a dedicated cc unit but they would be moving so slow, unless the idea is to slingshot the d lord in with pile in moves. I think the lord with the veil will probably go with a group of praetorians. I should be able to handle them with EWO on the stormsurge (forgot to mention that in my list). I am still struggling to determine where my Destroyer missiles should go, I was thinking about firing them into the unit of wraiths or at a unit of Destroyers if the wraiths are already gone.

Against shooty armies I often go like this with my Necrons: I put a veil of darkness (deep strike the unit at the beginning of the movement phase) on my overlord with a war scythe (+2 S, armour bane), with a Destroyer Lord (so the whole unit gain preferred ennemy) with a war scythe too. In a unit of 6 wraiths.

So in deployment I put my wraiths behind my army. The rest as close to my limit deployment zone as possible so they can put pressure asap.

Turn 1, I teleport the wrait unit in the face of my ennemy. Then I make them run to try to get some cover that will block the line of sight.

I watch my opponent panic and pour everything he have on the wraith unit while the rest of my army move forward.

By turn 3 it's a bloodfest.

So watch for this combo. It work pretty well against Taus.

y3r0k wrote:
Wow so much great information thank you everyone!

Wouldn't putting the destroyer lord with the wraiths slow them down? I understand that this would help make a dedicated cc unit but they would be moving so slow, unless the idea is to slingshot the d lord in with pile in moves. I think the lord with the veil will probably go with a group of praetorians. I should be able to handle them with EWO on the stormsurge (forgot to mention that in my list). I am still struggling to determine where my Destroyer missiles should go, I was thinking about firing them into the unit of wraiths or at a unit of Destroyers if the wraiths are already gone.

The Destroyer Lord can do his thrust move in the assault phase to keep pace with the Wraiths.

EWO does not work against the Veil unless the Veil is being used to actually Deep Strike in from Reserves which is almost certainly not what he will use the Veil for.

EWO does not work against the Veil unless the Veil is being used to actually Deep Strike in from Reserves which is almost certainly not what he will use the Veil for.

Are you sure any use of Deep Strike is not considered like coming from Deep Strike Reserve?

Sluggfest wrote:

EWO does not work against the Veil unless the Veil is being used to actually Deep Strike in from Reserves which is almost certainly not what he will use the Veil for.

Are you sure any use of Deep Strike is not considered like coming from Deep Strike Reserve?

Its not a Deep Strike. The rule says to teleport them using the rules for a Deep Strike, but you aren't Deep-Striking per-se.

Sluggfest wrote:

EWO does not work against the Veil unless the Veil is being used to actually Deep Strike in from Reserves which is almost certainly not what he will use the Veil for.

Are you sure any use of Deep Strike is not considered like coming from Deep Strike Reserve?

Interceptor only works against things that "arrived from Reserve". Using a Veil is only "using the rules for Deep Strike", they do not come from Reserves.

Otherwise, Deathmarks would be getting their 2+ wounding from coming in from reserves a lot more often...

I'm betting Overlord + Destroyer Lord + Wraiths, turn one Veil. That should distract the entire army, allowing the Destroyers and Praetorians to get into position decimate something turn two.

col_impact wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

col_impact wrote:


Definitely kill the Spyder or Spyders first but be aware that the Adaptive Subroutines rule lasts a whole game turn.

Not if the Tau player goes first. He can kill the threat before it starts.

Target priority:

1) Spyder
2) Wraiths (easier to focus down under weight of fire once spyder is dead)
3) Destroyers
4) Praetorians

I'm not sure where he plans to stick the D Lord with the scythe. Probably the Destroyers which is why they're at #3. The overlord's squad with the veil will probably force you to deal with those units sooner. For example, if he puts the veil in with the wraiths and deep strikes them towards you turn 1, you're just gonna have to deal with them (potentially before you kill the spyder if you don't have enough firepower).

But you should win without too much issue. You outrange him, the stormsurge can stomp and your Y'vahras are monsters. They just kill everything. Just make sure that you don't push the Y'vahras too far forward and let the wraiths counter-assault you for flaming a cheap troop choice. Not worth.

If the Necron player goes second he can deploy the Spyders out of sight to greatly reduce the amount of firepower brought to bear on them. I do this even if I am going first since you never know if the other player will seize the initiative.

A proper "cheese" Necron list will usually win against Tau.

Of course if the battlefield has little or no terrain on it then the odds start to go definitely towards Tau.

You still have to weather two turns of tau shooting. I'll take my chances, especially since turn 2 the 3 riptides can fire twice (formation) as well as the 2 stormsurges firing twice (anchors). Not much can stand up to that with proper markerlight support (I have 16 at BS 3) and the necrons tend to struggle to shoot at ranges great enough to do anything to the markerlights early. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Tau.

I think you might be under estimating just how durable necrons are, a squad of lychguard, with an overlord takes about 14 wounds to remove a model, assuming he doesn't take any on his warlord (in which case that number could go up). At BS 4 and str 5 that's 42 shots per model removed. To second turn wipe a squad of lychguard out would require about twice the firepower the OPs list provides. I know everyone thinks riptides are cool, but they are straight awful against necrons, you need volume of shots since the necrons generally don't care about quality of shot. The riptides have to be close to take advantage of networked nova reactors, so a lord can teleport himself and a D-Lord over, and on his following turn break the D-Lord off to kill a riptide by himself while lord and what's left of the guard kill a different one. That's not even accounting for the turn two charges from the the wraiths and scarabs, who as soon as they are in melee care not a wit about the spider. Then there are jet bikes charges on turn two as well, with the destroyers popping in and out of cover to take apart the battle suits and storm surge.

If you're relying on 4 models to win you the game, and those 4 models can't CC for squat, you are going to be easy prey for a mobile necron army. The Tau armies that do well against crons involve lots of guns, lots of expendable units to throw at the cron meat grinders, and few obvious targets.

Basically, two things:
- rely on weight of dice
- worry about the fast stuff

Well, the Spyders are a high-priority target.
Recently, I battled 5000 pts Necrons vs. 2x2500 pts Tau and Mechanicus. Their aim was to kill the three Spyders I had but they couldn't due to terrain and pressure from my units.

 Grimgold wrote:
I think you might be under estimating just how durable necrons are, a squad of lychguard, with an overlord takes about 14 wounds to remove a model, assuming he doesn't take any on his warlord (in which case that number could go up). At BS 4 and str 5 that's 42 shots per model removed. To second turn wipe a squad of lychguard out would require about twice the firepower the OPs list provides. I know everyone thinks riptides are cool, but they are straight awful against necrons, you need volume of shots since the necrons generally don't care about quality of shot. The riptides have to be close to take advantage of networked nova reactors, so a lord can teleport himself and a D-Lord over, and on his following turn break the D-Lord off to kill a riptide by himself while lord and what's left of the guard kill a different one. That's not even accounting for the turn two charges from the the wraiths and scarabs, who as soon as they are in melee care not a wit about the spider. Then there are jet bikes charges on turn two as well, with the destroyers popping in and out of cover to take apart the battle suits and storm surge.

If you're relying on 4 models to win you the game, and those 4 models can't CC for squat, you are going to be easy prey for a mobile necron army. The Tau armies that do well against crons involve lots of guns, lots of expendable units to throw at the cron meat grinders, and few obvious targets.

Totally agree with you about the Riptides and quantity of shots vs quality. That's the reasoning behind running the riptide wing with all heavy burst canons. I think it will come down to who has t1 if I got first I could have a shot to remove the spider and make that wraith Cc unit less threatening. I could then throw a 4d6 thrust on the Riptides t2 and get out of threat range. Or do the opposite depending on the turn order. I think overall it will be a tough matchup but now I know what tom expect and have an idea of the tools I'd need to use to handle it.

 Grimgold wrote:
I think you might be under estimating just how durable necrons are, a squad of lychguard, with an overlord takes about 14 wounds to remove a model, assuming he doesn't take any on his warlord (in which case that number could go up). At BS 4 and str 5 that's 42 shots per model removed. To second turn wipe a squad of lychguard out would require about twice the firepower the OPs list provides. I know everyone thinks riptides are cool, but they are straight awful against necrons, you need volume of shots since the necrons generally don't care about quality of shot. The riptides have to be close to take advantage of networked nova reactors, so a lord can teleport himself and a D-Lord over, and on his following turn break the D-Lord off to kill a riptide by himself while lord and what's left of the guard kill a different one. That's not even accounting for the turn two charges from the the wraiths and scarabs, who as soon as they are in melee care not a wit about the spider. Then there are jet bikes charges on turn two as well, with the destroyers popping in and out of cover to take apart the battle suits and storm surge.

If you're relying on 4 models to win you the game, and those 4 models can't CC for squat, you are going to be easy prey for a mobile necron army. The Tau armies that do well against crons involve lots of guns, lots of expendable units to throw at the cron meat grinders, and few obvious targets.

5 models. Two stormsurges.

I play wraithwing necrons (3 canoptek harvests) so believe me I know about their durability. The lichguard are great too though not my personal preference. But volume of fire is indeed the way to go. On the turn that my riptides and stormsurges double fire, I can put out the following:

72 strength 6 AP 4 rending shots (at BS 5)
40 twin-linked strength 5 shots (at BS 5) that ignore cover
16D6 yes 16D6 strength 5 shots (at BS 5)
4 strength 10 AP 2 large blasts (BS 5)
8 destroyer missiles (BS 5)

Now it takes 4 markerlights to make all of the riptides BS 5 and 2 more to make the stormsurges BS 5 so on average I only have 4 left for the destroyer missiles becoming strength D, so I usually split them 4 and 4 over 2 turns. Still a great chance at a dead spyder with no chance of a cover save each turn.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
I think you might be under estimating just how durable necrons are, a squad of lychguard, with an overlord takes about 14 wounds to remove a model, assuming he doesn't take any on his warlord (in which case that number could go up). At BS 4 and str 5 that's 42 shots per model removed. To second turn wipe a squad of lychguard out would require about twice the firepower the OPs list provides. I know everyone thinks riptides are cool, but they are straight awful against necrons, you need volume of shots since the necrons generally don't care about quality of shot. The riptides have to be close to take advantage of networked nova reactors, so a lord can teleport himself and a D-Lord over, and on his following turn break the D-Lord off to kill a riptide by himself while lord and what's left of the guard kill a different one. That's not even accounting for the turn two charges from the the wraiths and scarabs, who as soon as they are in melee care not a wit about the spider. Then there are jet bikes charges on turn two as well, with the destroyers popping in and out of cover to take apart the battle suits and storm surge.

If you're relying on 4 models to win you the game, and those 4 models can't CC for squat, you are going to be easy prey for a mobile necron army. The Tau armies that do well against crons involve lots of guns, lots of expendable units to throw at the cron meat grinders, and few obvious targets.

5 models. Two stormsurges.

I play wraithwing necrons (3 canoptek harvests) so believe me I know about their durability. The lichguard are great too though not my personal preference. But volume of fire is indeed the way to go. On the turn that my riptides and stormsurges double fire, I can put out the following:

72 strength 6 AP 4 rending shots (at BS 5)
40 twin-linked strength 5 shots (at BS 5) that ignore cover
16D6 yes 16D6 strength 5 shots (at BS 5)
4 strength 10 AP 2 large blasts (BS 5)
8 destroyer missiles (BS 5)

Now it takes 4 markerlights to make all of the riptides BS 5 and 2 more to make the stormsurges BS 5 so on average I only have 4 left for the destroyer missiles becoming strength D, so I usually split them 4 and 4 over 2 turns. Still a great chance at a dead spyder with no chance of a cover save each turn.

I play Wraithstar. How much of that firepower is getting past re-rollable 2+ armor saves, a Solar Staff, and a Res Orb?

Also, where are you planning on putting your markerlight sources so that a couple of units of Tomb Blades with nebuloscopes don't just hose them?

col_impact wrote:

I play Wraithstar. How much of that firepower is getting past re-rollable 2+ armor saves, a Solar Staff, and a Res Orb?

Also, where are you planning on putting your markerlight sources so that a couple of units of Tomb Blades with nebuloscopes don't just hose them?

Mind walking me through how you are getting a 2+ re-rollable? also I plan on using my ap2 torrents, ap2 blasts, weight of dice / rending, and d missiles and stomps to do that if I faced it.

For the drones make sure they are 37 inches away during deployment haha! I played a game last night vs the necron list I described, played ITC Mission 3 pulled of a 7-5 win, I learned that Necrons are a pain in the butt to pull off the board

Bring obj sec troops and watch the necrons cry.

Martel732 wrote:
Bring obj sec troops and watch the necrons cry.

zombies have a hard time getting across the field lol

Additionally, if you take out their leader, they quickly fall apart. All the strength of Necrons come from their HQ

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Bring obj sec troops and watch the necrons cry.

zombies have a hard time getting across the field lol

Additionally, if you take out their leader, they quickly fall apart. All the strength of Necrons come from their HQ

Necrons being slow is a stereotype that shouldn't exist.

y3r0k wrote:
Mind walking me through how you are getting a 2+ re-rollable?

Orikan + Obyron = rerollable 2+ armor save tanking for the star
(but if you're bringing as much AP2 as you say then the only thing you'll have to worry about would be the 4+++ RP and 3++ inv (unless the Spyder is near them, in which case it will be a rerollable 3++).)

Necrons are a pain in the butt to pull off the board

Yes, they are, which is why I try to recommend people play smarter rather than harder against them (tie their guns up with fast disposable units, play objectives, etc) instead of the "OMG I NEED TO TABLE THEM TO WIN" mindset that most players seem to default to for some reason.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
if you take out their leader, they quickly fall apart. All the strength of Necrons come from their HQ

...
I don't know what Necrons armies YOU'VE been playing (you sure that wasn't Fantasy Vampire Counts?), but unless they're fielding a Deathstar (in which case, HA, good luck trying to get rid of them then), most Necron players view their HQ as a tax and would much prefer if they didn't have to bring them. Virtually all Necron units are more than capable of operating effectively without "leaders".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Necrons being slow is a stereotype that shouldn't exist.

Shhhhhh!!
You'll ruin the surprise!

I think i would have done a lot better had he not seized on me. Since he did I was able to go right for the canoptek Harvest because he veiled his Olord Dlord and Immortals right infront of me. So I was forced to take them out and ignore the Spyders/ Wraiths.

y3r0k wrote:
Hi Dakka Dakka,

I'm going to be playing against necropsy for the first time this weekend and have no clue about them as an army. We exchanged lists ahead of time because of unfamiliarity on both sides so I know what he is bringing in the decurion. He's running in addition to the mandatory reclamation legion, a destroyer cult, canoptek harvest, and judicator battalion. Everything seems pretty stock except for the overlord has the veil and war scythe, the destroyer lord has a war scythe as well.

I'm running a FSE CAD with a fir blade and naked crisis suits tax, 2 Y'vahras with Stim and EWO, a storm surge with shield and pulse driver, a riptide wing all burst tides with precision shots. And a drone net with 4*4 marker drones.

I know the most threatening of these is probably the canoptek harvest, followed by the destroyer cult. I'm planning to focus fire on the spider with the riptide wing. After that just use weight of fire to take out the wraiths while kiting them. The storm surge will try and do work on the units of destroyers.

I will probably use the Y'vahra to take out the two triarch stalkers/ praetorians.

I don't know if there is anything I overlooked or if my threat assessments are wrong. Any help would be much appreciated!

Important: Decurions aren't Objective Secured. So if you have mobile Obsec and reserve it to start the game, you should be able to get to objectives and steal them from him when it matters. In some missions you will auto win becasue he just can't stop you from scoring things and your stuff auto stops him from doing it.

 Jancoran wrote:


Important: Decurions aren't Objective Secured. So if you have mobile Obsec and reserve it to start the game, you should be able to get to objectives and steal them from him when it matters. In some missions you will auto win becasue he just can't stop you from scoring things and your stuff auto stops him from doing it.

That really only works as a strategy in the case of things like the Gladius Strike Force where everything has Objective Secured, including the ton of free transports.

col_impact wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
I think you might be under estimating just how durable necrons are, a squad of lychguard, with an overlord takes about 14 wounds to remove a model, assuming he doesn't take any on his warlord (in which case that number could go up). At BS 4 and str 5 that's 42 shots per model removed. To second turn wipe a squad of lychguard out would require about twice the firepower the OPs list provides. I know everyone thinks riptides are cool, but they are straight awful against necrons, you need volume of shots since the necrons generally don't care about quality of shot. The riptides have to be close to take advantage of networked nova reactors, so a lord can teleport himself and a D-Lord over, and on his following turn break the D-Lord off to kill a riptide by himself while lord and what's left of the guard kill a different one. That's not even accounting for the turn two charges from the the wraiths and scarabs, who as soon as they are in melee care not a wit about the spider. Then there are jet bikes charges on turn two as well, with the destroyers popping in and out of cover to take apart the battle suits and storm surge.

If you're relying on 4 models to win you the game, and those 4 models can't CC for squat, you are going to be easy prey for a mobile necron army. The Tau armies that do well against crons involve lots of guns, lots of expendable units to throw at the cron meat grinders, and few obvious targets.

5 models. Two stormsurges.

I play wraithwing necrons (3 canoptek harvests) so believe me I know about their durability. The lichguard are great too though not my personal preference. But volume of fire is indeed the way to go. On the turn that my riptides and stormsurges double fire, I can put out the following:

72 strength 6 AP 4 rending shots (at BS 5)
40 twin-linked strength 5 shots (at BS 5) that ignore cover
16D6 yes 16D6 strength 5 shots (at BS 5)
4 strength 10 AP 2 large blasts (BS 5)
8 destroyer missiles (BS 5)

Now it takes 4 markerlights to make all of the riptides BS 5 and 2 more to make the stormsurges BS 5 so on average I only have 4 left for the destroyer missiles becoming strength D, so I usually split them 4 and 4 over 2 turns. Still a great chance at a dead spyder with no chance of a cover save each turn.

I play Wraithstar. How much of that firepower is getting past re-rollable 2+ armor saves, a Solar Staff, and a Res Orb?

Also, where are you planning on putting your markerlight sources so that a couple of units of Tomb Blades with nebuloscopes don't just hose them?

Markerlights can modify snapshots. D ignores the tanking character and if you're close enough to assault on the next turn, you're close enough to be flanked such that I can bypass your tanking character. The markerlights have greater range than the tomb blades (who themselves are fragile) and I also put a iridium suit commander in a squad of markerlights with drone controller. I'm ok with the tomb blades plinking off his 2+ save.

By no means is it an auto-win, but every army has weaknesses.

col_impact wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:


Important: Decurions aren't Objective Secured. So if you have mobile Obsec and reserve it to start the game, you should be able to get to objectives and steal them from him when it matters. In some missions you will auto win becasue he just can't stop you from scoring things and your stuff auto stops him from doing it.

That really only works as a strategy in the case of things like the Gladius Strike Force where everything has Objective Secured, including the ton of free transports.

"only"?

It works with Farsight Enclave monat crisis teams. it works with Militarum Tempestus Scion teams. it works with Eldar Jetbikes. it works with Grey Knights. it works with Space marine Battle Companies. it works with all kinds of things!