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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/31 12:01:50
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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So I ran my Ghostkeel for the first time this weekend and had a question. The Ghostkeel has "Stealth", the drones attached to it give it "shrouded" and the Ghostkeel suit doubles the effect for "steath and shrouded" for shots further than 12" or a 2+ cover save even in the open. I think this means that the Ghostkeel, and only the Ghostkeel, would get this 2+ save or more importantly if the drones end up being the closest model to the firing unit would they also benefit from this special rule and get a 2+ cover save or would they only get their 4+ cover save? If they do not get the 2+ save I assume then you would always want the drones hidden behind the Ghostkeel (until it is short on wounds then swap) but wanted to confirm this tactic with the group. If that is the case and the Ghostkeel needs to take a lot of wounds maybe it would be beneficial to give it FNP?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/31 12:09:52
Subject: Re:Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Generally, I hug terrain to some extent thus getting a 2+ at all times, then put all but one of the drones in the unit up front to absorb firepower.
Of course, my favoured tactic is ultimately to leave my Keels just exposed enough to draw fire, but not so much as to actually die. Not hard against most armies, but you do need to keep an eye out.
Giving them BS2 overwatch then hiding some marker drones behind them and luring people into assault can also work wonders.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/10/31 13:10:08
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The drones have stealth and shrouded for +3 to their cover saves. Unless facing a bunch of S10 weaponry, I do as you suggested and have the Ghostkeels out front soaking wounds until damaged. If you can manage to hug cover, Placing the drones out front is a wonderful (and for your opponent, immensely frustrating) tactic.
As for upgrades, I think you're spinning your wheels with stim injectors. That's a lot of points for a mediocre upgrade. Riptides and possibly Commanders are really the only units I'd bother dropping the points for stims on. I generally only run Ghostkeels in units of 3 in an OSC, so target locks are a must. One typically gets a VT, too. I definitely like the idea of CDS on a larger unit since that'll make your Keels reasonably dangerous to assault, especially with marker support nearby. I'm not sure that's worth sacrificing the offensive flexibility of target locks, though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 12:51:59
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot
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Hmm that's interesting tactic running more than one ghostkee in the OSC. You can get 2 crisis suits armed with let's say 2 plasma guns or 2 missile pods each and 2 shield drones for the same amount of a ghostkeel. That's 8 shots with the missile pods or 4/8 shots with the plasma for the crisis or 6+4 shots with the ghostkeel (if armed with Ion Raker + TL Burst Cannon). So firepower it puts out more shots.
The ghostkeel has 4 wounds where the crisis squad has 6 but will need to take LD tests once the drones get shot down, etc so I think that might actually be a wash.
They both can make jump moves but the ghostkeel gets a 2+ cover save if shot at by more than 12" which is huge.
I think it might actually be better option to take the Ghostkeel instead of another squad of Crisis. My big concern is in regards to tactics. The OSC is already a high priced (and kind of fragile) detachment and the 2 squads of stealth and ghostkeel need to be close to each other to be affective. So adding even more points to this unit in smaller games could really put the pressure on this unit to perform. It will take a lot of attention of the enemy or none of the attention as they just avoid it all together.
What do y'all think in regards to this?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 13:24:05
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Crisis Suits are definitely the most bang for your buck in terms of pure shooting per point, there's no doubt about it. Where Ghostkeels shine is durability. Outside of other Tau armies, not a whole lot ignores cover. That leaves you with a pretty tough model that can often remove itself from line-of-sight without too much problem. Crisis Suits, as you mentioned, lose effectiveness as they take wounds, and since they tend to crumple in a stiff breeze, that can be bad news.
Using 3 Ghostkeels dramatically increases the effectiveness of the unit since you benefit from fire team. You can use the size of the unit to your advantage with wound distribution and sacrificing drones to keep your firepower at max for an impressively long time. Your opponent can try to avoid the OSC, but it's not exactly a simple task to avoid a fast unit with a 24" range. It's to your advantage to be at the edge of your range, anyway, so they'd be playing into your hands with that strategy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 14:09:15
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Well, once you factor in OSC, then it gets slightly different.
The 6 stealthsuits you are taxed with won't be amazing (as they get no buff unless near the ghosts), but the ghost unit being a natural BS4 ignores cover shooters that hit rear armor means they are also mean shooters.
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 22:15:33
Subject: Re:Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Reliable Krootox
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I personally love the Ghostkeel's model, and use them often. I know the OSC is great, but I find that Formation not my style to play, and dislike the lack of tactical flexibility the large, expensive 3 Ghostkeel unit. The midfield scrimmage area is where my lists need more game, I have been having good luck with the Ghostkeel Wing, and find it very rewarding to play. Despite it lacking the inherent punch of the OSC, the force multiplication of the Stealth Field works wonders in the early Turns, and having three disposable screening units (that won't break or just have holes shot in them to allow an assault through anyway) has let me move away from running Allies.
In regards to the choice between Ghostkeel vs Crisis Suits, I think you need to think about the need for low AP in your list. If you could get by without it then definitely the Ghostkeel offers way more survivability and flexibility. Crisis Suits can offer better range with Missile Pods, but only by 12". Crisis Suits tend to hit harder, point for point, but Ghostkeels (for me) tend to get more damage over time due to the increased survivability.
Lately I have found a great, fun use for the Ghostkeel Wing that helps bring some uncompetitive units from our codex into the Semi-competitive range. Nothing earth-shattering, but fun, so I thought I'd share. Long story short, it really makes our tanks more survivable, without requiring them to Jink, and losing their shooting potential. With the Ghostkeels operating at a shorter range in the first place, the vehicles can often use them combined with table cover for an assured 5+ base cover save. With Stealth from the Wing and a Dpod each get a 3+ cover save, and if you do need to Jink for a particularry nasty attack, that climbs to a 2+. The AP3 from Ionheads and Skyrays also compliments the lack of low AP from the Ghostkeels as well.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 22:16:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/11 19:05:26
Subject: Ghostkeel Tactics (stealth drones)
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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keep ghost keels cheap - Ionraker and TL burst and bs2 overwatch is probably the best loadout. I use them in assault frequently too. The stealth suits - I put 0 investment into. They work just fine with their burst cannons - I've even considered taking more stealth suit bodies in the OSC because they rarely ever get shot at and put out good damage.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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