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Ok.. ok... crazy I know but think about facing off vs a Magnus list with the greenskins. Magnus is a giant point sink, but what if you were able to isolate him made him a ranged threat only? Do you think this would be good?

CADOrks:
Painboy
10 Grots
10 Grots
10 Lootas
3 TraktorKannons
BuzzGobz Stompa (+DeffCannon)

Tide:
1 Boss +PK
8 Nobz +PK
1 Nob +BigChop
1 Nob
90 Shoota Boyz

Idea is to castle and bubble wrap the stompa, not allowing a magnus charge on him. Also would not allow a place to land in backfield. Traktor Kannons probably wouldnt do much nor would any shooting... or melee. But I think it would be a good tarpit. I think you could potentially maneuver around the ensuing melee. Another option for this list.... a good one IMO would be decrease the PKs or Traktorz and add a Culexus for some anti psychery. Gotta be careful though with her as she would yield FB rather quickly.

Thoughts?

Honestly, I think the stompa + traktor kannons on their own would do the trick. IIRC, magnus is just S8, no armorbane, so he'd honestly struggle with an orkanaut, much less a stompa.

I think a GT would actually be better for magnus, honestly. I think he's T7, so boyz can't even hurt him, unless they charge, and he's a character. Then again, there are all those throwaway nob characters, and on that note, I'd probably have fewer PKs, because more than a few will have to die to challenges.

Then again, his to wound of 6s turn a boy into a spawn, so swarming him could go poorly, honestly.

If you were to try a green tide, which I'm not sure is a fantastic idea, the big bosspole is a must-take. That or grotsnik, just for fearless.

But if I were to pick one of those two approaches, I'd definitely put my money on stompa+traktor kannons. Yes, he has the scary D shot, but so does the big mek stompa, and it has power fields to boot.

And a single D beam isn't honestly that scary to a stompa. Yes, a 6 on the D chart would suck, but that honestly doesn't happen too often, and still isn't enough to kill a stompa unless followed up with another 6. A couple meks inside to fix it up, and then magnus has to contend with a D choppa and stomps with naught but S8 attacks V AV 13.

Bubble wrapping the stompa is unnecessary: Magnus is not going to charge your stompa, he is going to blow it up with D.

PK's are unnecessary: Magnus, again, won't charge you.

Culexus is unnecessary: Magnus will just fly out of her reach so she can't stop his psychic BS.

Your only course, as an Ork, is do what you always do: drown your opponant in so many shots that they're 2++ re-rollable can't save them (of course flying, T7, 7W and a 2++ re-rollable is a bit harder to take care of).

You could always just ignore him and kill his WC batteries; as an Ork you may have enough shots to wipe out a unit of pink horrors and it's blue and brimstone brothers in one turn. Magnus is essentially a WC drain so if you take away his sauce (mmm misspelled sauce) he becomes less intimidating (just to clarify he could still wipe your stompa in one turn but he is less intimidating than before).

I thought Magnus had 4++ that becomes 3++ if he has a blessing rerolls 1 of course. If that's the case looted and twin linked dakka guns can kill him.

Ally in a skyhammer with 8 grav cannons and hope to go 1st?

Why on earth are gravcannons good against something with no armour?

thenewgozoku wrote:I thought Magnus had 4++ that becomes 3++ if he has a blessing rerolls 1 of course. If that's the case looted and twin linked dakka guns can kill him.

Depending on the final wording of blessing of Tzeentch, cursed earth could boost his invul to a 2++.

thenewgozoku wrote:Why on earth are gravcannons good against something with no armour?

My thoughts exactly.

My Ork Deathskullstar Army could take him on!

1. Mogrok’s Bossboyz Formation (Primary)

HQ1 (Warlord): Big Mek Mogrok, Da Finking Kapp, Mega Armor
HQ2: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ3: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ4: Warboss, Lucky stikk, Mega Armor
HQ5: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

2. Waaagh Ghagzhskull supplement CAD

HQ6: Big Mek, Warbike, Mega force field, Big bosspole, Big choppa
HQ7: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 1: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 2: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

3. Ork Horde Detachment

HQ8: Mad Dok Grotsnik The Painboss
HQ9: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ10: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 3: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 4: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 5: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

HEAVY SUPPORT 1: 15x Loota's

FORTIFICATION: Aegis defence line

4. Orks CAD

HQ11: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ12: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 6: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 7: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

LORD OF WAR: Ghahzkull Thraka the beast of Armageddon

Weirdboyz got acces to both daemonology powers. putt all characters with the loota's. first turn this unit can use gate to get close and remove -1 inv save and start shooting + vortrex blast.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Why on earth are gravcannons good against something with no armour?

Magnus has 4+ armor (but also his 4++ which can sometimes reroll 1s, so his 4+ armor will rarely be used, if ever).

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Why on earth are gravcannons good against something with no armour?

As established his armor is 4+ meaning a grav cannon wounds on 4s re-rolling which is a pretty good ratio of wounds.

shogun wrote:My Ork Deathskullstar Army could take him on!

1. Mogrok’s Bossboyz Formation (Primary)

HQ1 (Warlord): Big Mek Mogrok, Da Finking Kapp, Mega Armor
HQ2: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ3: Big Mek, Warbike, Big choppa
HQ4: Warboss, Lucky stikk, Mega Armor
HQ5: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

2. Waaagh Ghagzhskull supplement CAD

HQ6: Big Mek, Warbike, Mega force field, Big bosspole, Big choppa
HQ7: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 1: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 2: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

3. Ork Horde Detachment

HQ8: Mad Dok Grotsnik The Painboss
HQ9: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ10: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 3: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 4: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 5: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

HEAVY SUPPORT 1: 15x Loota's

FORTIFICATION: Aegis defence line

4. Orks CAD

HQ11: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2
HQ12: Weirdboy, Mastery level 2

TROOPS 6: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade
TROOPS 7: Gretchin + 1x Runtherd squig hound upgrade

LORD OF WAR: Ghahzkull Thraka the beast of Armageddon

Weirdboyz got acces to both daemonology powers. putt all characters with the loota's. first turn this unit can use gate to get close and remove -1 inv save and start shooting + vortrex blast.

And if you don't get first turn and he goes flying? Only your lootas can actually harm him, but that isn't likely to happen with 6's to hit, 6's to wound and a 2++ re rollable save.

Unusual Suspect wrote:

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Why on earth are gravcannons good against something with no armour?

Magnus has 4+ armor (but also his 4++ which can sometimes reroll 1s, so his 4+ armor will rarely be used, if ever).

This seems very strange because his stat line gives him a 4+ but none of his wargear does. The only armour he has, his crown, gives him a 4++.

If he does get 2++ rerollable save then just try to avoid him I vote.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
If he does get 2++ rerollable save then just try to avoid him I vote.

Aye, seems like this best thing to do. If Magnus is flying he can't claim objectives and he can't spawn units onto objectives, so just try to beat him in equivilant points of obsec troops.

A "Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement CAD" doesn't exist, so no MFF without using one of the terrible Waaagh! Ghaz detachments/formations, Shogun.

Orks will deal with Magnus in much the same way we deal with any of the units/lists that we don't have adequate tools to deal with - pretend it's not there for as long as possible and hold onto your green butt while hoping you can stay on the table long enough to claim some objectives.

 mrhappyface wrote:
And if you don't get first turn and he goes flying? Only your lootas can actually harm him, but that isn't likely to happen with 6's to hit, 6's to wound and a 2++ re rollable save.

6s to hit, yes.

6s to wound? Aren't Lootas S7? So that's 4s to wound.

And how is he getting a 2++ rerollable? The only way I can think of is Cursed Earth, which Magnus doesn't know. So he'll have to have someone else following him with Cursed Earth active. Kill them first.

There's cursed earth, the grimoire, tzeentch warlord trait (unless Magnus HAS to be the WL).

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
There's cursed earth, the grimoire, tzeentch warlord trait (unless Magnus HAS to be the WL).

Cursed Earth has been addressed.

The Grimoire also requires a bearer-shoot them to death.

What Warlord Trait? Because if Magnus needs it to improve his Invuln, he can't get it-his Warlord trait is set.

Kinda like we do vs anything else we can't kill - like all the invisible magic deathstars in flying ruins. Roll around them, kill support, score. Let him eat a few trukks per turn with his d - bag shot gaze.

 mrhappyface wrote:

shogun wrote:My Ork Deathskullstar Army could take him on!..............

And if you don't get first turn and he goes flying? Only your lootas can actually harm him, but that isn't likely to happen with 6's to hit, 6's to wound and a 2++ re rollable save.

Dont forget that mogrok got +1 seize and also got the thinking kapp, so thats 2 dice rolls on strategic warlord trait that could result in another +1 seize. This deathstarr got a 4++ against shooting and can be improved to a 3++. Even if magus is in the air theirs not a lot he can do to destroy this deathstar. But the Deathstarr can destroy a lot on the ground..

xlDuke wrote:
A "Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement CAD" doesn't exist, so no MFF without using one of the terrible Waaagh! Ghaz detachments/formations, Shogun.

A Eldar Cad also doesn't exist but people seem to use it. Which rules prevent me from using this? You can take a CAD form a source, right?

JNAProductions wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
And if you don't get first turn and he goes flying? Only your lootas can actually harm him, but that isn't likely to happen with 6's to hit, 6's to wound and a 2++ re rollable save.

6s to hit, yes.

6s to wound? Aren't Lootas S7? So that's 4s to wound.

And how is he getting a 2++ rerollable? The only way I can think of is Cursed Earth, which Magnus doesn't know. So he'll have to have someone else following him with Cursed Earth active. Kill them first.

And if the person following them also has a 2++ re-rollable?

JNAProductions wrote:

Cursed Earth has been addressed.

When you say adressed, do you mean the on going argument of whether being in a blessing bubble means that you 'have been blessed' and therefore benefit from blessing of Tzeentch?
What is the final wording on blessing of Tzeentch because I have seen both a wording that would allow this and another that wouldn't.

And how is Magnus's compatriot getting a 2++ rerollable? The Grimoire has already been used on Magnus, and the only other solution is to double (or, in the case of anyone with only a 5++ base, TRIPLE) up on Cursed Earth. Which requires an insane points sink to be any kind of reliable.

 JNAProductions wrote:
And how is Magnus's compatriot getting a 2++ rerollable? The Grimoire has already been used on Magnus, and the only other solution is to double (or, in the case of anyone with only a 5++ base, TRIPLE) up on Cursed Earth. Which requires an insane points sink to be any kind of reliable.

Cursed earth doesn't stack, he would use the impossible robes + cursed earth.

Also, just realised: 1000 posts!
Here's to the next thousand!

Right, so you just dropped 255 points on a unit who's main job is just to buff Magnus. (And realistically, 280, since it's gonna be ML 3.)

And that still only leaves you around a 50% chance of getting Cursed Earth.

Edit: So that's 930 points spent on a Death Star that can't score, can't tie units up in combat, generates only 8 Warp Charges (when, for the same points, you could get 27 Warp Charges using Heralds of Tzeentch) and in general will have a very hard time making its points back.

Of course, you could put them on the ground... But then they're not so invincible, are they, what with Wraithknights and Knights and such.

@Kapn Krump: Big Boss Oole is unnecessary with stompa. See Rule: "Effigy."

@Shogun. Im skeptical of your list. For starters, that first formation has both megarmored greenskinz along with bikers. I may be mistaken but I thought that formation had to remain a unit. Kinda shootin yourself in the peepee with those choices mobility wise. Again.... maybe wrong.

@Thread. I didnt make clear my second reason for the tide, which is board control. He cant land in my backfield. When he does, he will endure a round of shooting from at least 50 shoota boyz and everything the stompa has.

@MrHappyFace: Congrats! Youre a junkie like the rest of us!!!!

 doktor_g wrote:
@Shogun. Im skeptical of your list. For starters, that first formation has both megarmored greenskinz along with bikers. I may be mistaken but I thought that formation had to remain a unit. Kinda shootin yourself in the peepee with those choices mobility wise. Again.... maybe wrong.

No it doesn't have to remain a unit. You're thinking about the Ghazhull traka formation. The bikers can slingshot the unit into close combat and detach for objective grabbing.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Right, so you just dropped 255 points on a unit who's main job is just to buff Magnus. (And realistically, 280, since it's gonna be ML 3.)

And that still only leaves you around a 50% chance of getting Cursed Earth.

Edit: So that's 930 points spent on a Death Star that can't score, can't tie units up in combat, generates only 8 Warp Charges (when, for the same points, you could get 27 Warp Charges using Heralds of Tzeentch) and in general will have a very hard time making its points back.

Of course, you could put them on the ground... But then they're not so invincible, are they, what with Wraithknights and Knights and such.

Who said just one unit following Magnus? If I was going to run Magnus, I would run him with 3 DP's in a formation: total MLs 14, harnessing on a 2+/3+ with 2++/3++ invul saves due to blessing of Tzeentch. Now I have 4 flying monsters who can pump out buffs, witchfires and summoning. My first turn could be cursed earth, summon some horrors and fire off a SD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doktor_g wrote:

@MrHappyFace: Congrats! Youre a junkie like the rest of us!!!!

Mwahaha!

Okay, so you spent 650 (Magnus) and 3*295 (The princes) 1535 points on that. That's pretty much your entire list there. No objective grabbers. No ground presence at all, really. And I'm pretty sure you're unbound, with Magnus there.

Hey, how do you deal with this list?

1510 Points

CAD-530
230-Typhus
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-360
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-360
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

CAD-260
60-Srocerer
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies
50-10 Zombies

That's 22 Fearless blobs on the table. How do you beat them?

Psychic shriek/Nova/beams? Just beat them in cc, they can't even hurt Magnus?

EDIT: I think we are both thinking on different point scales, your thinking 1850pts whilst I mostly play 2500pts.
At 1850pts level, due to his points sink, I don't think Magnus will see much play.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Psychic shriek/Nova/beams? Just beat them in cc, they can't even hurt Magnus?

Beams hit maybe 10 models a turn, killing around 8. You have to kill 224.

Novas aren't a bad solution, but that's countered by spreading out.

And you're trapped in CC for two turns minimum with a 10 man squad, since they're fearless.

Edit: Most games are played 2,000 or less, at least in my experience. And, to my knowledge, most tournaments are at 1850. So while your experience might be different, that also makes it a poor reflection of what to expect.

At 2000pts or less I wouldn't expect Magnus to be played.