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Hey guys I'm tooling around with starting another Space Marine chapter so I've been lurking around the GW site looking at minis I like. I'm becoming obsessed with Marneus Calgar and his Gauntlets of Ultramar. I know very little about Ultramarine fluff but the model makes beating ass with two powerfists look really awesome. I wasn't really into non Dark Angel marines until recently when I started reading The Beast Arises and got really into the background of the Imperial Fists which was my first choice of new chapter until I got around to checking out their unique character models. Lysander, Kantor and Grimaldus are fluff wise awesome, their models however just aren't doing it for me and I've been drawn more to Ultramarine unique character models. I realized I suffer from a common pastime in our hobby, gaking on the smurfs without really knowing why. I'm here to change that.

Why do you love Ultramarines, and what are some of your favorite fluff pieces?

 zeragrin wrote:
Hey guys I'm tooling around with starting another Space Marine chapter so I've been lurking around the GW site looking at minis I like. I'm becoming obsessed with Marneus Calgar and his Gauntlets of Ultramar. I know very little about Ultramarine fluff but the model makes beating ass with two powerfists look really awesome. I wasn't really into non Dark Angel marines until recently when I started reading The Beast Arises and got really into the background of the Imperial Fists which was my first choice of new chapter until I got around to checking out their unique character models. Lysander, Kantor and Grimaldus are fluff wise awesome, their models however just aren't doing it for me and I've been drawn more to Ultramarine unique character models. I realized I suffer from a common pastime in our hobby, gaking on the smurfs without really knowing why. I'm here to change that.

Why do you love Ultramarines, and what are some of your favorite fluff pieces?

Hmm.. now this is an interesting question to ask the fandom..

I wonder if people make a Pre and Post-Matt Ward feelings about the matter...

Good questions.

I have never actually met someone in 40k who plays the Smurfs (besides as a first army they got from blackreach), probably due to being boring to paint, boring to field and the fluff of them basically being the base Space Marines with no querks or personality besides "follow the Codex".

It's a question of Ultramarines vs all the other chapters and sub-chapters, with so much choice and so many ways to express yourself on the tabletop why take vanilla?

The only Ultramarine I actually liked was Captain Titus from Space Marine but the only reason I liked him was that, unlike most Ultramarines, he didn't follow the Codex and he had a personality.

I honestly thought this thread would be more popular. I know that Ultramarines are polarizing, love em or hate em I figured more people would chime in. Splitting opinions between pre and post Matt Ward is definitely a good idea. With the way GW has been licensing like crazy lately it's not surprising that a Video Game character, supposedly written by a non GW writer?, is the most interesting character you can find of their most iconic chapter.

I just like greco-roman space marines. Helmet plumes are fun.

I definitely like the Greco-Roman themes, but the best place I've found Ultramarines portrayed is in the Horus Heresy.

They're smart fighters, fighting tactically and logically - a lot of the portrayals of the Codex is less as a definitive guide, and more of suggestions. And if Calgar follows the Codex so doggedly, and is such a good general, how bad is everyone else?

The Ultramarines are also fairly compassionate, not to the extent of the Salamanders, but certainly one of the nicer Chapters. They're also very good at logistics and creating sustainable worlds, instead of just crusading in and ruining a planet with excessive bolter fire.

The Ward Atrocity has largely been left behind in 5th Edition, with the whole "Spiritual Liege" stuff being unmentioned in modern codexes. They're no longer the Best of the Best, but one of the more prestigious Chapters, mostly owing to having lots of Successors (stable geneseed), and solid reputation within the Imperium (having prosperous worlds), being a First Founding Chapter, and being very clean in the eyes of the Imperium (not feral, not secretive, a good public reputation almost on a par with the Blood Angels).

I think a big point raised about bland characters in the Ultramarines isn't exclusive to them. Space Marines in general are very bland, with very few likeable Astartes out there, due to their very nature.

I like the Ultramarines because I like the colour scheme, the Greco-Roman themes, and their tactical mindset.

I’ve been playing Ultras for a long time. A time before the fluff really got sorted out. I started them because I got tired of painting red (first army was BA) and I had some transfers. The only thing that separated the chapters was paint.

But once the fluff/rules started getting fleshed out, I kept with them for a number of reasons.

I liked the average joe. For the bulk of the time, vanilla marines were the second class citizen. The other chapters had special snowflake rules and units. Everyone else was marines++. Ultramarines didn’t have any of that. They just fought shoulder to shoulder with their brothers against the darkness of the galaxy. No special ravenwing, wolfhunters, bloodwhatevers. Just a marine, his bolter, and his squad. And they got the job done. They are not min/max, or need gimmick/shenanigan based lists to win. Just a take all comer army. Flexible. Not the best at anything, but can do everything.

A lot of the over the top “we’re the best, everyone wants to be us” fluff wasn’t written yet. Or was no worse then other chapter’s.

In 3rd edition where I really started to bulk out my Ultras and make them my primary army, they were also more of a general’s army. I had more control over my units. This was the edition where the BA had to roll for every unit, every turn to see if they charged towards the foe. And DA had a similar rule, where they would stubbornly stand still. But when I gave an order to my Ultras, they obeyed. I strive to remove a lot of the randomness in my army, so they are more reliable. Ironic, considering the direction GW is going, with charts, tables, and rolls for everything.

I try not to let the Ultramarine hate get to me, but it is a little irritating. I blame Ward for a lot of that. While most of the fluff in 40k is over the top, he really dialed it up. I can understand the backlash against that.

But from a fluff POV, Ultras are far from flawless. Sure, we don’t devolve into beasts, fly off into blood frenzies, or harbor dark secrets. But we aren’t perfect. Pride, arrogance, and hubris are our drawbacks. We wrote The Book. We know better. But when the universe throws us a curveball, sometimes it can be hard to adjust.

Courage and Honour!

All really solid points, especially the Greco Roman styling it is definitely what stands out about their aesthetic. I like the idea that their technical geneseed flaw is more of a cerebral problem in their pride/hubris getting in their way more so than mutation, rage and secrets.

Do you guys have any favorite fluff stories you feel really showcases Ultramarines as they should be? Matt Ward aside

I was a fan of the Ultras back in 4th ed. I liked the idea that they had become Tyranid experts and half their first company was made up of tyrranic war veterans. Their chapter wide greatest achievements was defeating a hive fleet on their own, in particular since the next Tyranid fleet would devour multiple whole astartes chapters. Tigirius, Cassius and Calgars all have notable achievements concerning Tyranids.

Therefore to me the best ultramarines stories are the Tyranid ones. That's just my opinion though. Hence as far as books go "warriors of ultramar" is the (only one I like) best in my opinion.

Otherwise I'd recommend you to read up on hive fleet Behemoth and the battle of Maccrage. It's an amazing battle and good story from start to finish. Don't think it's ever been written down outside of white dwarf but find it online, and don't skip the parts concerning Inquisitor Kryptman. In a way the Tyranids are named after the Ultramarines.

I came around to the Ultramarines after reading some of their Heresy-era stuff after always being dismissive of them. Know No Fear was the main one, but I even enjoyed their stuff in books likes Unremembered Empire and Pharos. The idea of Macragge standing alone in a galaxy where they have no choice but to assume the rest of the Imperium has been destroyed by Horus, and using the Beacon of Pharos as a guide for any survivors to find their way to safety really got to me.

Someone mentioned above that they are boring to paint - I'll offer the flip side of that, in that they are easy to paint. That means you can get a good looking table-top force up and running quickly, and given that they are the poster boys for GW you can find reference pictures everywhere you look to help you out.

I will definitely look into some of the fluff surrounding the nids and Pharos. Those sound like a lot of fun. Great discussion so far guys. I really appreciate all the input.

I like the Smurfs because they don't treat normal humans like total trash...they are decent rulers, incorporate PDFs when it makes sense to do so, are logical, use combined arms, are good at most forms of combat, and are not insane...they would be an excellent source chapter for the Practical Marines.

-STS

Prior to being Warded up...they were fine. Nothing against them. Now they're a bunch of over the top space jerks in a race of over the top space jerks. I imagine most people who like them either fondly remember their old fluff or are below the age of 13. I assume no middle ground.

Like oneof the previous posters, my appreciation of the Ultras took off after reading some of the Horus Heresy books. They seemed the most rounded space marines I guess.

I've been playing Ultramarines/Successors since 2nd Edition, so over 20 years now.

I liked them because they didn't have all the other stuff on them, like wolf pelts or animal teeth. They were just guys on power armor, skilled and reliable. Way back in 2nd Edition, it was written in their book that the UM had built their own empire, and that whenever they conquered a world they made sure that it had adequate defenses before they left, unlike other chapters which would slash and burn their way across planets. Their primarch was specifically good at logistics, and had thus grown his chapter to be the largest of the original legions. Compared to some of the other chapters, the UM appeared to be more logical, overall.

I like the UM now because they are supremely reliable troops. I almost always take Sicarius, because he gives Ld. 10 to every model, making my marines harder to break or pin. When you load up on the Gladius, the UM are re-rolling to-hit rolls for most/all of the game, making them incredibly accurate and effective. It makes your basic Tactical Squad very sturdy.

I dunno about the novels, I'm not a huge fan of most of the Black Library books, but Know No Fear is a nice one for two reasons. The first is that it's a very important moment in the UM history. The second because I think it embodies what the UM are known for, which is adaptability and never giving up.

There's some in-universe aphorism like "If you defeat an Ultramarine, you'd better kill him or he'll eventually get the better of you." Logical, adaptable, tenacious.

I don't like them...
But if I had to pick my favorite thing about them, it would be the Greco-Roman theme to their army.
I just think they're too prissy and poster-boy-ish to really like them all that much. They just feel boring fluff-wise compared to most other chapters.

Ultramarines were my first army under Rogue Trader rules. I loved them but, looking back, it was more of a crush than something meant to last.

The rules and fluff have changed a lot since then. What I loved about them was the regimentation, the idea that they are by the book in every way.

The 3 Ultramarines players I know these days are more into the Chapter Tactics that come with the army. You know, the ones that make them unlike any other Space Marine army.

Feels like a tease.

I like the Ultramarines. They were the group I started with when I first got into 40k back in the second edition. Over the years I have picked up other groups, Space Wolves, Sisters of Battle, Imperial Guard, and Chaos Space Marines (all painted in Word Bearers colors), I have continued to work on my Ultramarines army and expand them. I like their color combination, I liked the original fluff for them. Also as I learned more about the different factions, I like that the Ultramarines don't have as many subgroups as some other chapters such as the deathwing, ravenwing, etc or special traits. They are just plain marines. To me that is what an army should be, mostly stock soldiers and in that way the Ultarmarines appeal to me as stock marines who get the job done.