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This discussion came up elsewhere and it's something I've been thinking of for a while after seeing the Skitarii/Mechanicus forces. I had the idea to do a force of these but like 90% of my GW players play an Imperium army of some flavor (mainly Marines, homebrew/Blood Angel/Dark Angel/Space Wolf mostly). I thought briefly of the backstory of my force being that they were entirely self-serving and close to being rogue but not heretical and as a result would not hesitate to fight against an "ally" if it meant getting some obscure piece of tech or for some unknown reason. But then I started to think more, and I am not sure if that's even a valid reason for the Mechanicus, and more so how they would survive after the point.

For example, if a Skitarii/Mech force assaulted a Guard world and fought them, and then a Marine force showed up to intervene and the Skitarii fought them too, after the battle how would the Skitarii/Mech force not be immediately declared heretics and purged at worst or run into the Eye of Terror at best since they dared to attack?

I'm sure this has happened in the Imperium's past, but what were the circumstances and the fallout? The Imperium never seemed like it would be the sort of place to accept even for a moment any sort of heretical trait, and opening fire on a chapter of the Adeptus Astartes would almost certainly fall under "Things that get you excommunicated".

The Space Marines or Guard could be renegade and raiding a Mechanicus outpost/supply depot.

If it's two loyalist factions fighting, whomever wins was obviously the loyalists while the dead foes were heretics. After all, the Emperor/Omnissiah wouldn't allow his faithful to fall.

Could be a doctrinal war, or some perceived slights could make one or the other attack.

Maybe a Space Marine chapter or Guard regiment found a partial STC, or a factory from the DAoT and aren't giving it up for study to the Mechanicus.

The other guys have something shiny.

Done.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The other guys have something shiny.

Done.

This. If the Mechanicus think you have some bit of long-lost tech then they will do whatever they can to get it.

You have a Squat performing unauthorized modifications to Imperial tech. That always gets them upset...

Isn't that how how the souldrinkers saga started mech wanted the soulspear from them

Some guard officer clicked on a pop up which stated that local singles (quite possibly daemonettes) are in the area. Not only is the Inq on the way to investigate this probable heresy but now the Machine Spirits are being flooded with spam and the Mechanicus is pissed.

Admech fight the Imperium in a really tense scene during The Beast Arises IT WAS EPIC!

Admech is an empire enslaved by the emperor, they are not really loyal to Terra. As far as I know there are 2 requirements that need to be met.

- They need to gain something by it.
- They need to be able to get away with it.

The death of the emperor might shake things up quite a bit.

The AdMech will happily fight any Imperial force as long as they have something to gain from it. Usually this is some shiny piece of tech. Techpriests hoard rare tech like dragons hoard gold.

It may happens sometimes that a schism occurs in which a small part of the AdMech will do secession with the rest because they found another thruth, but usually they get rekt some time after when the Imperium wakes up.

Out of subject but someone once told me about a novel called "Fallen Angels" where Skitarii (Secutors) beat Space Marines in close combat. I need to read it for scientific purposes, but I don't know where to find it. Is it in a book with multiple novels ?

 Vankraken wrote:
Some guard officer clicked on a pop up which stated that local singles (quite possibly daemonettes) are in the area. Not only is the Inq on the way to investigate this probable heresy but now the Machine Spirits are being flooded with spam and the Mechanicus is pissed.

Every time!

 Aaranis wrote:
It may happens sometimes that a schism occurs in which a small part of the AdMech will do secession with the rest because they found another thruth, but usually they get rekt some time after when the Imperium wakes up.

Out of subject but someone once told me about a novel called "Fallen Angels" where Skitarii (Secutors) beat Space Marines in close combat. I need to read it for scientific purposes, but I don't know where to find it. Is it in a book with multiple novels ?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/hh-novs/fallen-angels-hardback.html
It is also included in the "The Novels volume 3"

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
It may happens sometimes that a schism occurs in which a small part of the AdMech will do secession with the rest because they found another thruth, but usually they get rekt some time after when the Imperium wakes up.

Out of subject but someone once told me about a novel called "Fallen Angels" where Skitarii (Secutors) beat Space Marines in close combat. I need to read it for scientific purposes, but I don't know where to find it. Is it in a book with multiple novels ?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/hh-novs/fallen-angels-hardback.html
It is also included in the "The Novels volume 3"

Thanks ! I guess I have to start reading the HH series, it was a matter of time haha Are these books one big story or are they always made of separate novels ?

 Aaranis wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
It may happens sometimes that a schism occurs in which a small part of the AdMech will do secession with the rest because they found another thruth, but usually they get rekt some time after when the Imperium wakes up.

Out of subject but someone once told me about a novel called "Fallen Angels" where Skitarii (Secutors) beat Space Marines in close combat. I need to read it for scientific purposes, but I don't know where to find it. Is it in a book with multiple novels ?

http://www.blacklibrary.com/horus-heresy/hh-novs/fallen-angels-hardback.html
It is also included in the "The Novels volume 3"

Thanks ! I guess I have to start reading the HH series, it was a matter of time haha Are these books one big story or are they always made of separate novels ?

Most Horus Heresy novels can be read seperately as they follow different characters and events, but some form a bigger story that follows a character (or group of characters) over a longer period of time (basically, forming sub-series within the Horus Heresy series) Fallen Angels is one of those. It is the sequel to Descent of Angels, and Angels of Caliban comes after it. Then there is also a whole other bunch of sturies about the Dark Angels in the Horus Heresy, but I am not sure if they are connected. The Horus Heresy series is huuuuuuuuuuge, so if you want to dive in you better be prepared.

Anyways, I am pretty sure you could read the book as a standalone if you'd want to. Maybe check out the plot summary of Descent of Angels at Lexicanum so you got the most important plot points of the prequel.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Admech is an empire enslaved by the emperor, they are not really loyal to Terra. As far as I know there are 2 requirements that need to be met.

- They need to gain something by it.
- They need to be able to get away with it.

The death of the emperor might shake things up quite a bit.

Enslaved by the Emperor might not be the correct term. Read Mechanicum... they have the scene where the Emperor does the whole Omnissiah business, sending the population into messianic frenzy....the way you would expect computer geeks to do that of course.


People are always talking about the whole Terra/Mars relationship as if they were always on the point of war, or that the average thinking member of the Mechanicus secretly harbors the idea that the Emperor isn't the Omnissiah.

The relationship, on baseline, is much stronger than people mistakenly think. The Imperium cannot survive without AdMech and vice versa.

And while they both have a relationship to the Man on the Golden Throne, they each carry it out in a different manner.

That being said, i'm certain though that certain hotter heads amongst both groups do get in a "Holier than Thou" kind of mood and which results in......hilarious inefficiency.

Generally Imperial worlds are expected to hand over new tech to the Mech, as are Space Marine Chapters. If they don't it will most likely be a case of what sort of political repercussions will we get if we take it by force. Backwater world with a garrison of guard or pdf, probably not much, space marine chapter, probably a lot. Also, you can easily claim tech heresy on a guard regiment, not so easy on a space marine chapter.

Not to mention with Space Marine Chapters they can probably get the info on any device through the tech marines.

How about an Imperium force is sent in to deal with a Choas/Ork/Tau uprising. They decide the battle is lost and want to exterminate the planet rather than it fall into enemy hands. However there's a twist... A new STC is discovered but the exterminatus order has already been given and the clock is ticking towards the destruction of both the planet and the STC. The Imperium forces won't lift the blockades (could be space or planetside) but the Mech won't take no for an answer. Dun dun dun...

Wayniac wrote:
This discussion came up elsewhere and it's something I've been thinking of for a while after seeing the Skitarii/Mechanicus forces. I had the idea to do a force of these but like 90% of my GW players play an Imperium army of some flavor (mainly Marines, homebrew/Blood Angel/Dark Angel/Space Wolf mostly). I thought briefly of the backstory of my force being that they were entirely self-serving and close to being rogue but not heretical and as a result would not hesitate to fight against an "ally" if it meant getting some obscure piece of tech or for some unknown reason. But then I started to think more, and I am not sure if that's even a valid reason for the Mechanicus, and more so how they would survive after the point.

For example, if a Skitarii/Mech force assaulted a Guard world and fought them, and then a Marine force showed up to intervene and the Skitarii fought them too, after the battle how would the Skitarii/Mech force not be immediately declared heretics and purged at worst or run into the Eye of Terror at best since they dared to attack?

I'm sure this has happened in the Imperium's past, but what were the circumstances and the fallout? The Imperium never seemed like it would be the sort of place to accept even for a moment any sort of heretical trait, and opening fire on a chapter of the Adeptus Astartes would almost certainly fall under "Things that get you excommunicated".

Its never that simple, even in 40k.

Both sides may have good reasons to fire on the other but still not be in the wrong (or the right).

So much of what would happen after such a clash will depend on:

Who survived - not just combatants but anyone else
Who is investigating, what are their feelings, debts, alliances etc toward the factions - what do they have to gain or loose by declaring one side in the wrong or indeed both.
Plausible deniability - There was a code error in unit 13104y05y504-5 - that unit has been purged, all is well, Praise the Omnissiah!
What power does the Mechanicus have in the area, the sector etc

Opening fire on the Astartes is quite likely to get you killed - usually by them, but not necessarily declared a heretic.