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Both possessed already possess mark of khorne and daemon of khorne in the khorne daemonkin book, so it got me thinking could this be ported over to chaos space marines on Possessed and warp talons ?

The basic idea is would it be reasonable to make it so that any model that has the daemon USR in the chaos space marine codex, that takes a mark of X, also receives the daemon of X rule for no additional cost ?

I believe this would improve the viability of both warp talons and possessed as it makes them faster (daemon of slaanesh) or more durable (daemon of tzeentch/Nurgle) which makes them either capable of reaching combat before dying or durable enough to survive being shot to reach combat.

I could see Crimson slaughter benefiting from such a change quite a bit, since there table has good synergy with daemon of Tzeentch, with 2 of the results granting a 2/3++ vs shoting by either giving a 3+ invulnerable or a 2+ cover save while in terrain, daemon of slaanesh also looks relative good on them as its fleet and +3 to run would help possessed to reach combat quickly.

Hmm. I'm pretty conflicted on this one. On one hand, possessed and warp talons are both problem units that could stand to get some sort of a boost. On the other hand, some of those combos seem pretty nasty.

Slaanesh doesn't seem so bad. It makes talons and possessed mildly better in melee and slightly faster. Nothing game breaking there. It doesn't do a whole lot to address their whole "getting into combat" problem as the speed boost is nice but not huge, but it arguably makes them more worth their points by upping their offense.

Khorne is meh. Punch thiings more punchily when punching and being punched. Again, doesn't really solve their problems, but maybe offsets those problems by making the guys that do reach combat hit that much harder.

Nurgle I'm less sure about. The toughness boost is always nice in general. The shrouded means that these units are now getting a 2+ cover save when approaching the enemy through terrain. It's a significant boost that gives them the kind of survivability they didn't have before and arguably addresses some of their main problems. It feels odd to give a unit so large a power boost at no extra cost, but maybe it's alright anyway?

Tzeentch is the one that I'm probably most worried about. This would basically make talons as tough as thousand sons in a fully fleshed out formation, giving them a 3+ armor rerolling 1's and a 4+ invul rerolling ones. Not only does this make it easier for them to survive getting into combat, but it also makes them much more durable once they're there.

It's a big power jump, but the units could use a boost in the first place so... *shrug*

I will say that talons seem much more worthwhile now that they can be sprinkled into a raptor talon. How do you feel about your proposed rule in the context of some warp talons that are assaulting out of reserves?

Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

Tzeentch might be a bit much. Currently Tzeentch Possessed are overcosted though (more so than unmarked possessed)... so if their undercosted it'd only be by 1ppm or 2.

Make them chaos wuffen.

Id like possessed to have options like power weapons and wings, and drop the random chart.

Like, each possessed is armed with two vorpal claws (specialist Rending weapons), one of which can be replaced to power sword.
A model with power sword has 2 attacks at Ap3, and model with just bare hands (and talons) has 3 attacks at no Ap.

Wings could be model-based, not squad-based, and give Hit and Run in addition to jump packs. So if you only have one winged possessed in the squad, it is just 5 points for HnR, but if you pay for all models, it's 5 points per model to also get Jump.

Also fluff says they can sense souls through the warp and stalk their prey, so I'd also give them Scouts (we didn't have any scouts in the dex before TL). In books ive read, possessed often were operating separately from the rest of csm too (I think these were Word Bearers books).

 koooaei wrote:
Make them chaos wuffen.

Really, the ultimate fix is letting them have two wounds.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

Well it does limit their potential mobility that much more, since they have no ranged weapons to speak of and if their ride gets stranded early on they are stuck with a 6" move a turn. Doesn't matter if you're T5 if you can't catch anything.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

No one really fields warp talons outside of a raptor's talon. If you limit their mobility by going nurgle with them, I imagine people will just raptor talon it up that much more. Drop a squad into some cover for a 2+ save, risk the dangerous terrain tests, and then assault stuff the following turn. It basically makes them nurgle puppies with fewer wounds but better AP. Alternatively, run them up the middle hopping from cover to cover. They behave much like normal warp talons, but trade a little speed for a 2+ cover save.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

Well it does limit their potential mobility that much more, since they have no ranged weapons to speak of and if their ride gets stranded early on they are stuck with a 6" move a turn. Doesn't matter if you're T5 if you can't catch anything.

Those poor slow & purposeful warp talons, only able to move a measley 12" before charging.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

No one really fields warp talons outside of a raptor's talon. If you limit their mobility by going nurgle with them, I imagine people will just raptor talon it up that much more. Drop a squad into some cover for a 2+ save, risk the dangerous terrain tests, and then assault stuff the following turn. It basically makes them nurgle puppies with fewer wounds but better AP. Alternatively, run them up the middle hopping from cover to cover. They behave much like normal warp talons, but trade a little speed for a 2+ cover save.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Remember that Nurgle Possessed would also get SnP, so they couldn't Run.

That's going to be interesting. Not sure how much that would hurt them, anyone have any guesses?

Well it does limit their potential mobility that much more, since they have no ranged weapons to speak of and if their ride gets stranded early on they are stuck with a 6" move a turn. Doesn't matter if you're T5 if you can't catch anything.

Those poor slow & purposeful warp talons, only able to move a measley 12" before charging.

Whoops, I was only thinking about possessed for some reason. In the case of Warp talons, yes it doesn't really matter, but Possessed are definitely more limited by being Daemons of Nurgle.