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For starters lets compare Ork Walkers to Imperial (SM) equivalents.

A SM Dreadnought, which many feel aren't worth taking, is 100pts, comes with WS/BS 4 S6 AV12/12/10 I4 A4 and HP3. It comes stock with a Multi-Melta, a stormbolter, a DCCW, Smoke Launchers and Searchlight (Nobody uses) It has access to a number of specialized weapons and can take special rules which give it huge benefits (at a cost)

An Ork Deff Dread is 75pts, comes with WS4 BS2 S5 AV 12/12/10 I2 A3 and HP3. It comes stock with 2 Powerklaws (so 4 attacks base) and 2 Big shootas, none of the upgrades for it are really worth taking except maybe to upgrade its Big Shootas either to Skorchas or more Powerklaws. Since this thing is BS2 and slow you never take KMBs or Rokkit Launcha. To upgrade to 4 DCCWs costs you 20pts which gives you 6 attacks base at S10 for 95pts.

Fixes.

Deff Dreadz: 85pts WS5 BS2 S5 AV 12/12/10 I2 A5 HP3. Special Rules, E're we go, Scrap Heap, Rampage, Choppy Waaagh Vehicle. 2 DCCWs and 2 Big Shootas.

Scrap Heap: When a vehicle with this special rule takes a penetrating or glancing hit immediately roll a D6. On a 4+ reduce a Penetrating hit to a glance or a Glancing hit to nothing. After every successful roll, increase the roll to reduce hits by 1. Can never go higher then a 6+, A mek may use its Toolz to add more scrap and add +1 per turn to dice rolls, may never go beyond a 4+

Choppy Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh Deff Dreadz gain +1 Initiative for every Klaw weapon it has.

NEW UPGRADE:
-Red Paint (5pts): Dread gains +1 inch movement in every phase. (Cannot exceed 12in in assault phase)

Killa Kanz: 50pts WS3 BS3 S5 AV 11/11/10 I2 A2 HP2 Special Rules: E're We Go, Minor Scrap Heap, Ded Shooty, Shooty Waaagh Vehicle. Kan Klaw and Big Shoota.

Minor Scrap Heap: When a vehicle with this special rule takes a penetrating or glancing hit immediately roll a D6. On a 5+ reduce a Penetrating hit to a glance or a Glancing hit to nothing. After every successful roll, increase the roll to reduce hits by 1. Can never go higher then a 6+, A mek may use its Toolz to add more scrap and add +1 per turn to dice rolls, may never go below a 5+

Ded Shooty: A Vehicle with this special rule may shoot its weapons in the assault phase, even if it did so in the shooting phase. But if it chooses to do so it may not assault.

Shooty Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh, Killa Kanz gain +1 shots with all weapons.

RULE CHANGES:
Cowardly Grot is REMOVED
Grotzooka becomes Range 24.
Killa Kanz may choose to replace their Kan Klaw with a 2nd ranged weapon for the cost of the new weapon +5pts.
Kanz Gain access to Kannons for 5pts
Kanz Gain access to TL Dakka Gunz for 5pts
Kanz Gain access to Git Findas for 5pts (Git finda always works for Walkers)

Morkanaut: 230pts WS4 BS2 S8 AV 13/13/12 I2 A5 HP5 Special Rules: E're We Go, Major Scrap Heap, Shooty Waaagh Vehicle. Klaw of Gork, KMB, KMK, 2x TL Rokkit Launcha, 2x TL Big Shoota.

Major Scrap Heap: When a vehicle with this special rule takes a penetrating or glancing hit immediately roll a D6. On a 3+ reduce a Penetrating hit to a glance or a Glancing hit to nothing. After every successful roll, increase the roll to reduce hits by 1. Can never go higher then a 6+, A mek may use its Toolz to add more scrap and add +1 per turn to dice rolls, may never go beyond a 3+

Shooty Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh, Morkanauts gain +1 shots with all weapons.

Morkanaut Gains access to Git Finda 5pts
Morkanaut May exchange its KMK to a Supa Kannon for 20pts.
Morkanaut May exchange its KMB for a Skorcha FREE
Morkanaut Gains Transport Capacity of 10.

Gorkanaut: 245pts WS4 BS2 S8 AV 13/13/12 I2 A5 HP5 Special Rules: E're We Go, Major Scrap Heap, Choppy Waaagh Vehicle, Rampge. Klaw of Gork, 2 TL Rokkit Launcha, 2x TL Big Shootas, Skorcha, TL DeffStorm Mega Shoota

Major Scrap Heap: When a vehicle with this special rule takes a penetrating or glancing hit immediately roll a D6. On a 3+ reduce a Penetrating hit to a glance or a Glancing hit to nothing. After every successful roll, increase the roll to reduce hits by 1. Can never go higher then a 6+, A mek may use its Toolz to add more scrap and add +1 per turn to dice rolls, may never go beyond a 3+

Choppy Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh Gorkanauts gain +1 Initiative for every Klaw weapon it has.

Deffstorm MegaShoota becomes S6 AP4 Heavy 6+2D6 Ignores Cover, Rending.

Gorkanaut May Exchange its Deffstorm Mega Shoota for a Kill Kannon FREE
Gorkanaut Gains Transport Capacity 10.
Gorkanaut may exchange its Skorcha for a KMB Free
Gorkanaut Gains access to Git Finda 5pts.


Stompa: 450pts WS5 BS3 S10 AV 13/13/12 I4 A5 HP12 Special Rules: Fear, Move through cover, Relentless, Smash, Stomp, Strikedown, Major Scrap Heap, Shooty Waaagh vehicle, Choppy Waaagh vehicle, Effigy. 4 x TL Big Shootas, Deff Kannon, Mega-Choppa, Skorcha, Supa Gatler, 3 Supa Rokkitz.

Major Scrap Heap: When a vehicle with this special rule takes a penetrating or glancing hit immediately roll a D6. On a 3+ reduce a Penetrating hit to a glance or a Glancing hit to nothing. After every successful roll, increase the roll to reduce hits by 1. Can never go higher then a 6+, A mek may use its Toolz to add more scrap and add +1 per turn to dice rolls, may never go beyond a 3+

Choppy Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh Stompas gain +1 Initiative for every Klaw weapon it has.

Shooty Waaagh Vehicle: On the turn your warboss calls Waaagh, Stompas gain +1 shots with all weapons.

Stompa Gains Access to Git Finda for 20pts
Stompa May Exchange TL Big Shootas for TL Supa Shootas, 5pts Each.
Effigy special rule expands to 12" from 6"
Supa-Gatler becomes Heavy 6+D6 on a roll of doubles instead of jamming for the rest of the game you reduce the shots by 1/2 for that one turn.

I like a lot of these rules but couldn't you just drop Killa Kanz to 30 pts and just drop their minor scrap heap rule? Otherwise these are great.

This looks fine, but the whole "mek can add scrap" mechanic is going to make filling a stompa with meks result in an almost invincible vehicle, and make tracking the scrap somewhat complicated.

I think just giving Ork vehicles It Will Not Die on a 6+, with the potential to increase it to a 5+ with Grot Riggers or something.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
This looks fine, but the whole "mek can add scrap" mechanic is going to make filling a stompa with meks result in an almost invincible vehicle, and make tracking the scrap somewhat complicated.

3+ is wicked good, but you have to remember this, if you get a Pen, it doesn't really matter to much against a Stompa because its a superheavy so it doesn't explode like normal vehicles. So if you get that Pen and it becomes a glance its not a big deal, and the 3+ becomes a 4+ and eventually a 5 or 6+. Since prior to this people were using Mekz to repair hullpoints its not a big deal. What this does do is make them a bit more durable. Keep in mind this mechanic is very similar to a void shield so its just as easy to keep track of, and on the Ork turn they have to make a decision, Do I use my Mek Toolz to repair damage or do I use them to add Scrap. Because you can't do both. One is guaranteed the other is a 1/3rd chance, but the 1/3rd chance actually repairs damage, the other just adds in a layer of protection against Penetrating hits.

Deff Dreads are currently 80 points by the way. I love these ideas, they would be great fun to play and fluffy as well but I actually think these might go too far and are a bit too rules-heavy for our army, they would feel quite out of place compared to other things. Probably best to keep it simple. Downgrading pens to glances and glances to nothing is probably too much, something that would be similar but more tame would be Deff Dreads, Orkanauts and Stompa coming stock with Grot Riggers.

I think Ere We Go for all walkers piloted by Orks, Effigy (6") for Orkanauts and Effigy (12") for Stompa, Super-Heavy status for Orkanauts, removal of Cowardly Grots from Kanz, ability to replace Kan Klaw with another ranged weapon or ranged weapon for another Kan Klaw and a 10/15 point price cut for Kanz and Dreads would be more realistic.

Just a points drop by 15p would do them fine

Why not allow Meks the ability to attempt to repair Ork vehicle wrecks? (Fixin' Klaws works on a 3+ as usual). This would work on anything that isn't a super-heavy, since super-heavies don't leave Wrecks anyway.

I think making all Ork vehicles (and by extension Ork Walkers of course) simply having the Ramshackle rule, which is then changed to giving them a 5+ invuln. against all weapons without the armourbane, ordnance or destroyer special rule. This way it doesn't completely invalidate the KFF, while staying relevant against the mass RoF weapons that are in the current meta.

Then for the big guys like the Morkanaut/Gorkanaut and the Stompa, give them the Ramshackle Monster rule from FW that flat out gives them a normal 5+ invuln.

Have that alongside the changes you gave them and I think they're set.

You could go a long way to fixing ork walkers just by putting the IA8 Mega Charga in the ork vehicle list, walkers only. Maybe bumping them p to four base attacks like their SM counterparts. Orks should always have more attacks base, that pretty much the one thing we're allowed to be good at.

Oh and dump killa kan ld. Vehicle squadron with ld issues, this must be a joke.s7 too lol. Give them some walker version of don't touch dat and be done with it. Probably tl thier weapons too. I mean, give me one good reason to take a killa kan over a deffkopta, or 3 kans instead of 5 koptas.

Definitely love that you TL'd the Rokkit Launchas on the Orkanauts since they look like they were modeled that way in the first place. I think a great way to give Ork players a reason to field Deffdreads is to reduce their points to 60 and allow them to benefit the way an Ork would from the Waaagh! rule. I personally would love to see the Waaagh! rule improved to include Preferred Enemy so that the shooty Orks like Lootas and Flash Gitz get a benefit from it also. If that were to happen then Deffdreads would certainly become the choppy walkers they're supposed to be.

xlDuke wrote:
Deff Dreads are currently 80 points by the way. I love these ideas, they would be great fun to play and fluffy as well but I actually think these might go too far and are a bit too rules-heavy for our army, they would feel quite out of place compared to other things. Probably best to keep it simple. Downgrading pens to glances and glances to nothing is probably too much, something that would be similar but more tame would be Deff Dreads, Orkanauts and Stompa coming stock with Grot Riggers.

I think Ere We Go for all walkers piloted by Orks, Effigy (6") for Orkanauts and Effigy (12") for Stompa, Super-Heavy status for Orkanauts, removal of Cowardly Grots from Kanz, ability to replace Kan Klaw with another ranged weapon or ranged weapon for another Kan Klaw and a 10/15 point price cut for Kanz and Dreads would be more realistic.

True, 80pts, I don't know why I put 75 . Grot Riggers suck compared to what I am proposing. ATM Grot Riggers cost 10pts, and if a deff dread is immobilized or loses an HP it has a 1/3rd chance to fix it. What that means is that a Deff Dread has a 1/3rd chance to repair something, turn 1 probably not going to use it unless your opponent goes first. So in reality that 1/3rd chance is only used turns 2-5ish. And realistically your probably not living that long anyway but lets roll with it. 1/3rd chance means that one turn out of 3 you will repair something so in total you can repair once a game if you aren't openly destroyed. That isn't even worth 10pts, hell it should be a free option to take. My plan is to make them more durable and a bit heavy hitting in CC so that they are worth taking at the points cost they are at. If you leave them how they are but give them Grot Riggers they still suck even with the ere we go and more attacks.

The biggest problem with walkers right now is two fold, they are slow and they are vehicles (they die easy). Giving them Ere we Go and the new "Red Paint Job" upgrade fixes the slow aspect a bit, and giving them the scrap rule helps them now explode or get HP stripped.

The more attacks and other special rules just make them more killy because realistically even with all those other rules nobody is really scared of a Deff Dread or a Morkanaut in CC or the shooting phase because they just don't put out the damage.

I don't think they need a whole bunch of new rules piled on top, just a bit of tweaking to make them worthwhile. Here's what I'd suggest:

• Give them all 'ere we go
• Deff dread gets 4 attacks base
• Maybe allow KKs and DDs to be taken as part of the same unit? Could help mitigate against Cowardly Grots without the need to expend another HS slot?
• Gorka/Morka get t/l rokkits, Assault Vehicle. Feel like a bump to their main guns might be nice, too.
• Points drops for everyone.

v0iddrgn wrote:
Definitely love that you TL'd the Rokkit Launchas on the Orkanauts since they look like they were modeled that way in the first place. I think a great way to give Ork players a reason to field Deffdreads is to reduce their points to 60 and allow them to benefit the way an Ork would from the Waaagh! rule. I personally would love to see the Waaagh! rule improved to include Preferred Enemy so that the shooty Orks like Lootas and Flash Gitz get a benefit from it also. If that were to happen then Deffdreads would certainly become the choppy walkers they're supposed to be.

I literally thought the rokkits were twin linked until right this second haha

I would not make Deff Dreadz WS5. That is higher than a marine dreadnought with centuries of experience and Ork Nobz too.

Tygre wrote:
I would not make Deff Dreadz WS5. That is higher than a marine dreadnought with centuries of experience and Ork Nobz too.

Totally. The fighting ability of the ork shouldn't be improved by being in a big metal bin-with-legs with a load of klaw-arms, just the effectiveness if it manages to hit you with all those klaw-arms.

Simple enough fixes for Ork Walkers.
For Deff Dreads
- Deff Dreads need Ere we go.
- Give Deff Dreads 2 additional attacks to match the buff SM walkers go.
- Give Deff Dreads a Supa Charger where they can run 2D6 but cannot charge even during a WAAAGH!
- Squadrons of up to 3 Deff Dreads

For Kanz
- Remove Cowardly Grot rule. Kans in the fluff embolden the grots so it makes no sense that they are still cowards. Also its a idiotic penalty.
- Their KMBs, Rokkits, and Big Shootas are Twin Linked.
- Grotzookas are now 24"
- Killa Kans are now Elite choices (You could argue that Deff Dreads should become Elites and that is fine. They both don't need to occupy the same slot).

Gorka/Morkanauts
- Super Heavy Vehicles but do not have the Stomp rule.
- Deffstorm Shoota needs to be Twin Linked

Stompa
- 500 points
- Supa-Gatler doesn't run out of ammo forever but instead is unable to fire the weapon anymore until the start of next turn when the onboard grots where able to reload the weapon.

All Ork Vehicles
- Grot Riggers can attempt to repair an Immobilized or Weapon Destroyed result. Reword it so its not IWND but a repair attempt made at the end of the turn.

Ah, yes Vankraken, I forgot about adding the ability to squadron up for Deff Dreads. Its of dubious use but should be an option nonetheless. That also reminds me I forgot to say that surely G/Morkanauts should have Initiative 3 - they're described as solely being piloted by Nobz, so why do they not gain parts of a Nobz statline? Infuriating. Why dont we get nice things :(

 Vankraken wrote:
Simple enough fixes for Ork Walkers.
For Deff Dreads
- Deff Dreads need Ere we go.
- Give Deff Dreads 2 additional attacks to match the buff SM walkers go.
- Give Deff Dreads a Supa Charger where they can run 2D6 but cannot charge even during a WAAAGH!
- Squadrons of up to 3 Deff Dreads

For Kanz
- Remove Cowardly Grot rule. Kans in the fluff embolden the grots so it makes no sense that they are still cowards. Also its a idiotic penalty.
- Their KMBs, Rokkits, and Big Shootas are Twin Linked.
- Grotzookas are now 24"
- Killa Kans are now Elite choices (You could argue that Deff Dreads should become Elites and that is fine. They both don't need to occupy the same slot).

Gorka/Morkanauts
- Super Heavy Vehicles but do not have the Stomp rule.
- Deffstorm Shoota needs to be Twin Linked

Stompa
- 500 points
- Supa-Gatler doesn't run out of ammo forever but instead is unable to fire the weapon anymore until the start of next turn when the onboard grots where able to reload the weapon.

All Ork Vehicles
- Grot Riggers can attempt to repair an Immobilized or Weapon Destroyed result. Reword it so its not IWND but a repair attempt made at the end of the turn.

Even with all those changes they still aren't worth their points.