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Over the past few weeks I have been going against more and more armies that include some sort of Pysker or Psyker base synergy (mostly Magnus with several formations of daemons). Obviously, Necron are naturally impaired when it comes to having Pys powers and denying the psy powers.
I know that you can bring a Spyder w/ Gloom Prism to give a 12 inch bubble which gives a 5+ on deny the witchrolls but thats all we have and it's hard to deny witch rolls even with a 5+ and only getting d6 warp pool for denying warp charges.
What I want to know is; what is the best army/faction to use as an ally or whatever to go with my Crons. All I play is Crons so I'm not sure which army/faction is good at denying which rolls and good at stopping pyskers in general.
Any help is appricated as Pyskers and psy powers are the bane of my 40K world.
I fight Daemon summoning/psychic a lot. Ive found to ignore the phase on a whole (the thing were best at being as resilient as we are) and just try to play to objectives and kill whatever is on the ground.
Run a blob of 20 flayed ones, infiltrate them up the field, flank/screen them with wraiths, run IC tomb blades with particle beamers. Once wraiths and flayed ones are in their back lines they wreak absolute havoc.
They cant summon/shoot you with mind bullets if their psykers are all dead
I will say however, that sucess against the psychic phase is entirely roll dependant for the other team. If they roll well, you will get obliterated. Hard to counter chance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/20 03:21:28
Honestly the best way to deal with psykers is to ignore them and play objectives, if they happen to leave a psyker exposed where you can snipe it easily go for it, but you are better off murdering all their units. They ran a deathstar with invisibility? Fine, shoot every other unit besides the deathstar and kite it around (if its really fast you might have to try to tie it up with something like wraiths or scarabs) but you can definitely pull a win out. Against the other psychic powers you really dont care because they are not that busted (psychic shriek will do minimal damage at most for instance).
The key thing with necrons: play to your armies' strengths and try to play your own game. You arent going to out psychic any army
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Generally, do not bother investing in anti-psyker stuff. Play the objectives instead. Investing in anti-psyker stuff is usually a waste since a heavy psyker build will still be able to overwhelm your efforts and you'll just have wasted points.
And then if you have the chance, kill the psykers, but don't go into the game trying to kill them. They're usually safely protected and going after them will result in heavy losses.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
In my last game I played 1850 of Necrons Decurion vs Tzeech that included Magnus, 4 Daemon Pronces with wings and then summoned some flamer unit.
I won 13-6 due to playing objectives but i only had 1 unit on the table (1 Night Scythe) and only survived as the game ran out on turn 5. So while I can go for objectives and hope for a win that way there is still the chance that I could get tables due to me not being able to "cope" with the Pysk phase. Also, Magnus is like 18 warp charges plus whatever the Princes had, He knows every psyk so my opponent used all the D strength powers as well as any other strong powers with Magnus and the princes just spawned stuff. I atleast spent 45-60 minutes each turn just watching my opponent do his Psyk phase with me sitting there helpless :(.
Yes I could ignore them, play the points game and hope to win. But, the chances of getting tabled is prettt high if i dont have the right unit and strats, if it was a Killpoint game I would have been fudged!!! And as I said, waiting a total 2-3 hours of watching someone while doing nothing kills the mood of the game as im stuck doing nothing besides seeing new models appear or my own ones dying.
@Klowny
What about Pretorians instead of Wraiths? In total there about the same points if i use a unit of 6. There weapons can shoot and attack and are AP 2 so nothing will be safe! Also, they are jump infantry so can move 12 inches like a wraith but can also deep strike!!! So, Infltrate woth the Flayed ones, either DS the Preatorians or flank with them. Thoughts?
I like your idea though, I guess I just need to build the right list.
@GodDameUser
So just target the most vulnerable unit as it will have an on going effect? Seems like a basic concept that I should have been thinking ha ha. Solid advice and I will take that on board when making a new list.
@Quixeemoto
I guess I just got to deal with the Pysk powers,play the game out, destroy whatever unit is most vulnerable and adjust to the situation turn by turn.
So if your specifically vs demon psychic (tzeench) etc, then praetorains and their ilk are the worst units you could possibly use. The things that the praets AP2 will negate will be flying in the air. The rest.... have a 5++, so AP doesn't matter against them as they rely on their invuln to stay alive. The GSC is the same, you need weight of fire over high quality low ap attacks, either in CC or shooting. Hence why the flayed ones. a blob of 20 is 100 attacks on the charge, with shred. Will murder anything they touch.
Praets are nowhere near as resilient as wraiths, their decurion formation is alot more expensive, and the stalker is not as useful as scarabs in terms of fighting invuln reliant armies. Scarabs can put out a lot of attacks, granted they are terrible at hitting, but they can do damage.
Wraiths are the most resiliant thing we have, with RP up. otherwise their high T and good invlun save will keep them alive for a very long time, plus tie up whatever you need to. They are more mobile than praets as they can move through anything on the board as if it wasnt there.
This is all in terms of fighting demons, as they play differently to other psychic armies. AP doesnt matter against them, they can summon more troops, these troops generally rely on rends to do damage (ap2) so praets will die first turn in combat against them. Wraiths wont. with their invuln and RP.
I cant comment on other psychic heavy armies, havent played against them. Just the tzeench cheese. (Haven't vs'd magnus either, but the tactics will stay the same). Focus the things not in the air, outscore them with your high mobility stuff, and try and outlast them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/20 05:01:03
Audustum wrote: I don't know Necrons well, but a good tactic for stopping summons is to load up on Interceptor. If they Spawn it nearby, bring it down.
If Necrons don't have that natively, you can ally in a Riptide Wing and give it to them.
You can't intercept summoned units because it doesn't happen in the movement phase
Audustum wrote: I don't know Necrons well, but a good tactic for stopping summons is to load up on Interceptor. If they Spawn it nearby, bring it down.
If Necrons don't have that natively, you can ally in a Riptide Wing and give it to them.
You can't intercept summoned units because it doesn't happen in the movement phase
Right, brain short on my end. Maybe if he was summoning via Blood Tithe (which a quick Google search shows is still being hotly debated), but these seem to be Conjuration spells.
Klowny wrote: So if your specifically vs demon psychic (tzeench) etc, then praetorains and their ilk are the worst units you could possibly use. The things that the praets AP2 will negate will be flying in the air. The rest.... have a 5++, so AP doesn't matter against them as they rely on their invuln to stay alive. The GSC is the same, you need weight of fire over high quality low ap attacks, either in CC or shooting. Hence why the flayed ones. a blob of 20 is 100 attacks on the charge, with shred. Will murder anything they touch.
Praets are nowhere near as resilient as wraiths, their decurion formation is alot more expensive, and the stalker is not as useful as scarabs in terms of fighting invuln reliant armies. Scarabs can put out a lot of attacks, granted they are terrible at hitting, but they can do damage.
Wraiths are the most resiliant thing we have, with RP up. otherwise their high T and good invlun save will keep them alive for a very long time, plus tie up whatever you need to. They are more mobile than praets as they can move through anything on the board as if it wasnt there.
This is all in terms of fighting demons, as they play differently to other psychic armies. AP doesnt matter against them, they can summon more troops, these troops generally rely on rends to do damage (ap2) so praets will die first turn in combat against them. Wraiths wont. with their invuln and RP.
I cant comment on other psychic heavy armies, havent played against them. Just the tzeench cheese. (Haven't vs'd magnus either, but the tactics will stay the same). Focus the things not in the air, outscore them with your high mobility stuff, and try and outlast them.
I have a CAD w/ 10 Praetorians with a Destroyer Lord w/ Phase Shiftet, Warscythe and Res Orb. That way I would take my hits on my D.Lord, have 4+ Invul and hopefully last a turn or 2.
I know Wraiths are better in general terms but if I have them in a Canoptek Harvest for RP then they will be limited to a 12 inch bubble to get the RP. Could just run 2 units of 6 each and have them CC as much as possible, would you reccomend Whip coils? I use all the time just i dunno if I want everyone to have them or only a certain few.
What would your recommend to bring in a list to combat Tzeentch and other daemon forces?
Again, 10 praets w/ a D/lord is a scary unit to face..... for any army that rely's on armour. Demons don't, so this is a very expensive and inefficient unit. a 4++ on a single model wont last too long, maybe 2 turns if your lucky and get the charge. maybe.....
Wraiths generally don't need whip coils, but from what I can remember seekers are I5, so you want the coils to be hitting at the same time, so you chunk down their numbers quickly so they start taking instability tests quicker.
The annoying thing with psy demon forces (tzeench) is this.
Most of their troops (things not flying about) rely on invulnerable saves, so you want weight of fire/templates. So GA full of warriors are really good, tomb blades with Scopes and Beamers are good, hell my Monolith has put in some work before. Bringing vehicles is a boon in this regard as most of their ground troops cant hurt them, so your relatively immune and can use them well for most of the game.
But....
the big birds flying about, and the pink horrors on the ground, have access to D, and you can find yourself in games with 5 or 6 units with ranged D. This means your GA/Monoliths ect will be dead pretty quickly most of the time.
Its annoying.
You build your lists differently for the different demon gods, a Khorne army is vastly different to a Nurgle army.
Like I said before, focus on killing everything on the ground, trying to kill their ground psykers, but dont tunnel on them. Ignore the things in the sky unless they drop down for what ever reason, then tarpit them with wraiths etc.
The aim of the game is to bring as many shots as possible, either shooting or in CC. Hence why flayed ones shine against them. (I2 hurts them, but you should have enough left to murder any non MC unit they throw at you).
Mobility is also key, they can be quick (my opponent runs 20-30 seeker blobs, which can be terrifying), so match/exceed that. Wraiths and TB are the stars of our codex and the backbone of a good anti demon army.
Low AP is useless. Dont bring scytheguard, or praets.
And again, it all depends on wether he rolls well on the psychic tables. A good days rolling will mean you will have very little in ways of winning, an average day means you have a good chance of winning and a bad roll will mean you will evicerate him. A lot of those armies rely on luck.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/20 06:08:52
If you wanted to ally in, you could use that new null-maiden task force (when it comes out). Two squads in rhinos would create a 24" psychic exclusion zone round every unit for just 240pts!
If you just wanted denial dice (and perhaps some summoning of your own) then for 400pts you could get 15 warp charge from a tzeentch CAD with blue horrors plus a minimum heralds anarchic formation.
Might be hard to justify why either of these have teamed up with your crons though haha. Guess you could model sisters of silence as some kind of pariahs or something.
Fully Painted Armies: 2200pts Orks 1000pts Space Marines 1200pts Tau 2500pts Blood Angels 3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades and 1700pts Daemons 450pts Imperial Knights
DoomMouse wrote: If you wanted to ally in, you could use that new null-maiden task force (when it comes out). Two squads in rhinos would create a 24" psychic exclusion zone round every unit for just 240pts!
If you just wanted denial dice (and perhaps some summoning of your own) then for 400pts you could get 15 warp charge from a tzeentch CAD with blue horrors plus a minimum heralds anarchic formation.
Might be hard to justify why either of these have teamed up with your crons though haha. Guess you could model sisters of silence as some kind of pariahs or something.
Ha ha 1850 Tzeench vs 1850 of Crons + Tzeench, now that would be a fun list to play.
Who are the null-maden? Are does thier bubble prevent pys powers being used within that bubble or does it make it harder to use psy powers.
What can the sister of silence do? Sorry for the noob questions. I literally have no idea about psy and how to deny/use psy haha
Sisters of silence effectively function like a culexus assassin - psykers within 12" range of them don't generate warp charge, can only harness on a 6 and all blessings/maledictions within this range are immediately cancelled.
Null maidens detachment is the new one that's going to be released in the 'Talons of the Emperor' box set. If the leaks I've seen are correct, it means that every sisters of silence unit on the field increases the range of their psyker-cancelling ability by 3". It appears that their rhinos also have this power, so two squads of Sisters with two rhinos would bump their cancel-range up to a huge 24", in theory meaning you could stop most psychic powers across the whole board (particularly with the added movement range of the rhinos). It would be a pretty nasty hard counter to a psyker-reliant army. Two squads in two rhinos would cost 240pts.
DoomMouse wrote: Sisters of silence effectively function like a culexus assassin - psykers within 12" range of them don't generate warp charge, can only harness on a 6 and all blessings/maledictions within this range are immediately cancelled.
Null maidens detachment is the new one that's going to be released in the 'Talons of the Emperor' box set. If the leaks I've seen are correct, it means that every sisters of silence unit on the field increases the range of their psyker-cancelling ability by 3". It appears that their rhinos also have this power, so two squads of Sisters with two rhinos would bump their cancel-range up to a huge 24", in theory meaning you could stop most psychic powers across the whole board (particularly with the added movement range of the rhinos). It would be a pretty nasty hard counter to a psyker-reliant army. Two squads in two rhinos would cost 240pts.
DoomMouse wrote: Sisters of silence effectively function like a culexus assassin - psykers within 12" range of them don't generate warp charge, can only harness on a 6 and all blessings/maledictions within this range are immediately cancelled.
Null maidens detachment is the new one that's going to be released in the 'Talons of the Emperor' box set. If the leaks I've seen are correct, it means that every sisters of silence unit on the field increases the range of their psyker-cancelling ability by 3". It appears that their rhinos also have this power, so two squads of Sisters with two rhinos would bump their cancel-range up to a huge 24", in theory meaning you could stop most psychic powers across the whole board (particularly with the added movement range of the rhinos). It would be a pretty nasty hard counter to a psyker-reliant army. Two squads in two rhinos would cost 240pts.
I'm sure with some imagination you could convert something necron and use the rules.
What Codex are the Sister of Silence apart of? Also, how would I field them with my Necrons? Ally Detachment, CAD, Unbound etc?
They have their own rules included in the box-set or available digitally through Black Library (I think). They also have their own stand-alone detachment called the Null Maiden Task Force, which is how you can take them.
It's +3" after the first for each unit on the table, so 2 Rhinos and 2 unemabarked SoS squads would be a 21" bubble, not 24".
Furthermore thanks to the FaQ units embarked aren't counted as being on the board and if both units are embarked the bubble is only 15" from the Rhinos.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/22 00:03:02
12,000 
1000pts Space Marines 
1200pts Tau 
2500pts Blood Angels 
3500pts Imperial Guard/Renegades 
and 1700pts Daemons 
450pts Imperial Knights 
