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Hello.

Tried the first 40k game of 8th edition (and also of 10+ years) and this came up:

Does "Onslaught" override the "Reinforcements" rule, allowing your nids to advance and charge after deepstriking?

The Onslaught rule reads:
"... That unit can Advance and shoot this turn without suffering any penalties to Ballistic Skill for moving and shooting Heavy weapon, or Advancing and shooting Assault weapons. In addition, that unit can also charge this turn."

And the Reinforcements rule reads:
"...Units that are set up in this manner (deepstrike) cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield..."

My ruling is that Onslaught only negates the modifiers or prohipition to shooting after moving, but my opponent argues they get to advance and charge.

/ Fredrik

No. Onslaught doesn't allow you to make extra movement, just negate the penalties for moving and advancing.

When a unit uses their Deep Strike ability, they are considered to have made all movement for that turn bar charging.

Agreed. He needs to also take Swarmlord to get around the Deep Strike restriction.

 yakface wrote:

Agreed. He needs to also take Swarmlord to get around the Deep Strike restriction.

Ok, works as I thought then...

...but what deep strike restriction are you talking about?
They arrived through a Trygon Prime tunnel.

/ Fredrik

Advance is part of the Movement phase, DS states that it happens at the end of the Movement phase and the unit cannot move further, but still count as moving. Onslaught does not give the ability to Advance, it gives the ability to act without penalty after an Advance, including Shooting and Charging.

Nothing in DS rules state the unit cannot Charge that turn. Advancing normally prohibits a Charge and Shooting.

With Swarmie, they can DS in Movement phase, Move+Advance in Psychic phase, shoot without penalty for the advance due to Onslaught, and Charge due to Onslaught. (Also Swarmie's ability imparts onslaught to the unit)

Pedroig wrote:
Advance is part of the Movement phase, DS states that it happens at the end of the Movement phase and the unit cannot move further, but still count as moving. Onslaught does not give the ability to Advance, it gives the ability to act without penalty after an Advance, including Shooting and Charging.

Nothing in DS rules state the unit cannot Charge that turn. Advancing normally prohibits a Charge and Shooting.

With Swarmie, they can DS in Movement phase, Move+Advance in Psychic phase, shoot without penalty for the advance due to Onslaught, and Charge due to Onslaught. (Also Swarmie's ability imparts onslaught to the unit)

This is full of wrong.

With the swarmlord you can DS a unit in movement phase, cast onslaught in the psychic phase to allow the unit to advance and still be able to charge, and then use swarmlords ability in the shooting phase to give the deepstriking unit a second can to move and advance before the assault phase where, because of onslaught removing the restriction on advancing preventing chrging, the unit may charge.

The swarmlords ability does not impart onslaught automatically.

Just a clarification. Onslaught does not grant any movement itself.

Fragile wrote:
Just a clarification. Onslaught does not grant any movement itself.

Correct. Sorry if that was not clear. Onslaught lifts the restriction on advancing and charging. It does not itself grant any ability to Move or Advance.

 Lance845 wrote:

Pedroig wrote:
Advance is part of the Movement phase, DS states that it happens at the end of the Movement phase and the unit cannot move further, but still count as moving. Onslaught does not give the ability to Advance, it gives the ability to act without penalty after an Advance, including Shooting and Charging.

Nothing in DS rules state the unit cannot Charge that turn. Advancing normally prohibits a Charge and Shooting.

With Swarmie, they can DS in Movement phase, Move+Advance in Psychic phase, shoot without penalty for the advance due to Onslaught, and Charge due to Onslaught. (Also Swarmie's ability imparts onslaught to the unit)

This is full of wrong.

With the swarmlord you can DS a unit in movement phase, cast onslaught in the psychic phase to allow the unit to advance and still be able to charge, and then use swarmlords ability in the shooting phase to give the deepstriking unit a second can to move and advance before the assault phase where, because of onslaught removing the restriction on advancing preventing chrging, the unit may charge.

The swarmlords ability does not impart onslaught automatically.

Hyperbole much? Perhaps look up what "full" means, I don't think you understand its use. Your example is accurate, it confirms part 1 and part 2 of my post, it corrects the 2 out of 6 parts of my example with Swarmie.

Give your post a lil edit for can to chance and add an "a" to charging...

Pedroig wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Pedroig wrote:
Advance is part of the Movement phase, DS states that it happens at the end of the Movement phase and the unit cannot move further, but still count as moving. Onslaught does not give the ability to Advance, it gives the ability to act without penalty after an Advance, including Shooting and Charging.

Nothing in DS rules state the unit cannot Charge that turn. Advancing normally prohibits a Charge and Shooting.

With Swarmie, they can DS in Movement phase, Move+Advance in Psychic phase, shoot without penalty for the advance due to Onslaught, and Charge due to Onslaught. (Also Swarmie's ability imparts onslaught to the unit)

This is full of wrong.

With the swarmlord you can DS a unit in movement phase, cast onslaught in the psychic phase to allow the unit to advance and still be able to charge, and then use swarmlords ability in the shooting phase to give the deepstriking unit a second can to move and advance before the assault phase where, because of onslaught removing the restriction on advancing preventing chrging, the unit may charge.

The swarmlords ability does not impart onslaught automatically.

Hyperbole much? Perhaps look up what "full" means, I don't think you understand its use. Your example is accurate, it confirms part 1 and part 2 of my post, it corrects the 2 out of 6 parts of my example with Swarmie.

Give your post a lil edit for can to chance and add an "a" to charging...

1) no. I won't edit anything because you tell me to lol.

2) you got it wrong that a unit can move/advance in the psychic phase, shoot without penalty, and that the swarmlords ability granted onslaught. I call that full of wrong.

Edit: Nevermind. Looks like this is resolved.

Onslaught does not grant another move.

Onslaught let's you ignore the penalty that using advance during the movement phase gives for shooting and assaulting.

That's all it does- and that is pretty powerful


As the psychic phase happens after movement, and onslaught doesn't let you move it just let's you ignore the penalties to shooting and assault if you chose to advance during the move phase, then it does nothing for a DS unit as a DS unit has passed the move phase.

blaktoof wrote:

As the psychic phase happens after movement, and onslaught doesn't let you move it just let's you ignore the penalties to shooting and assault if you chose to advance during the move phase, then it does nothing for a DS unit as a DS unit has passed the move phase.

unless you have a Swarmlord near by to get that unit to move & advance in the shooting phase.. but only in that case

Negative. Psychic comes before movement so there is no way to give a unit Onslaught coming from reserves and use the Swarmlords ability.

Now that's not to say you can't onslaught a unit of warriors, move, advance, then in the shooting phase use the swarmlords ability so they can move and advance again. Then fire all their weapons including heavies without penalty followed by assault.

But bottom line no way to get a deep striking unit on the table with onslaught on them in the same turn. However the swarmlord would still allow you to move, and you could shoot and assault just not advance. But if you move and you started 9" away from the enemy...why do you need to advance?

Wagguy80 wrote:
Negative. Psychic comes before movement so there is no way to give a unit Onslaught coming from reserves and use the Swarmlords ability.

Literally 8 pages of rules.

Movement is Phase 1, Psychic is Phase 2.

Page 2 wrote:
1.Movement phase
Move any units that are capable of doing so.

2.Psychic phase
Psykers can use powerful mental abilities.