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Sounds like we can expect the CSM Codex by October. According to the post on WC, the Codex will include new Relics, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and psychic powers, along with rules for Chaos Space Marine Legions.

Thinking about how much I enjoy 8th edition, and how refreshing it was to get Traitor's Hate / Traitor Legions after all those years. I realize the book is probably already at the printers, but starting this thread to talk about what we would like to see in the Codex.

CSMs in General

Relics / Black Mace: each hit causes d3 additional mortal wounds to the unit.

Marks / Khorne: +1 Attack

Marks / Nurgle: +1 Toughness

Marks / Tzeentch: +1 Invulnerable

Marks / Slannesh: ???

Black Legion

Chapter Tactics / Spearhead Assault: Deep Strike / Teleport up to 6 inches away from the enemy (50% chance of getting off a charge - seems appropriate)

Cyclopea Cabal / Shroud of Deceipt: we need this back, it was such an awful thing to do to Eldar.

Relics / Last Memory of the Yuranthos: combined with the impact of morale, this would be one of the most powerful relics in this edition.

Relics / Eye of Night: combined with the impact of morale, this would be one of the most powerful relics in this edition.

6" is 72.22% chance of a charge.

Fix obliterators. Lower the points or give them assault 3 or make them work the way they used to. Also s5 t4, these stats should be switched especially since they got robbed of their powerfist. Every game they're just massive jobbers that I wish I used the points on combi plasma terminators.

New Heldrake model

I'm honestly waiting to see how the space marine book looks before I start hoping for too much. Once we've seen a codex I think we will have a better idea what to expect.

Marks: I could see these being left as mere keywords while icons give individual God buffs. I'm not sure if I like that or not. It could easily be compensated for in other ways.

Icons: Most of these don't seem to be worth the points (khorne being the exception) so that could use a fix.

I'd almost rather have multiple icons for each mark then the marks themselves do anything.

Veteran Skills: Probably not likely but... they did mention drawing from the most popular previous codices. So that'd be great.

Legion tactics: I'm actually hoping we can mix different legions in one army and still benefit from this. Also that these actually impact the army in a notable way.

Note: I wrote this wishlist before 8e came out, but was leaked, so it is somewhat outdated, but should still be applicable at a "high level."

For Chaos Marines? Their biggest issue in 6th edition is one of bad FOC slottage and unit redundancy: All their long-range units are in Heavy Support, and all their fast units are in Fast Attack (or Heavy Support, in the case of the Maulerfiend), while their Troops and Elites move like Infantry and don't bring their own speed with them; add the inability to do a proper "1 x 1" with Troops/Transports and things get more tricky. Traitor Legions/Traitor's Hate (arguably) fixed a lot of this via formations, Legion Tactics, FOC swaps, etc, but it's definitely one of those things that would be ideal to fix in a core CAD (or equivalent 8th detachment). I have a few thoughts on this:

* Back in 2nd Edition, Plasma Weapons could only fire every other turn. Chaos Space Marines could fire Plasma every turn, but Gets Hot was a special rule for them instead. The old fluff was while the AdMech eventually developed fire limiters/safety coolant overrides for Imperial Plasma Weapons (and the Imperium grudgingly accepted the loss of firepower in exchange for not constantly blowing up their best marksmen), the Traitor Astartes viewed such modifications as the refuge of cowards and weaklings. Eager to eke out any advantage they could in the Long War, they didn't adapt such safety measures for their plasma weapons (and may in fact have removed such features, overclocking/Reaver-teching them). I propose the following rule for Chaos Space Marines: "Gets Really Hot." Plasma weapons wielded by Chaos Space Marines fire one more shot than their profile would indicate, but each 1 rolled counts twice (meaning you must roll 2 armor saves). I ran some numbers for this back in early 7th, and found that over the scope of 2-3 turns, it DOES make Chaos more viable in a firefight over the 24" range-band for the first 2-3 turns, but the increased Plasmagun attrition means the advantage doesn't last long, so make it count!

* I have a soft spot for Chaos Cultists. Their presence in Chaos armies is both meant to show the folly of "Great Crusade"-era integrated forces of Astartes/non-Astartes forces, as well as to serve as cannon fodder. The problem is while they ARE good cannon fodder and cheap objective holders, and they can be dangerous in melee if buffed properly...they really don't do a whole lot else. I generally am a fan of units having multiple purposes/being adapatble, as more player choices result in more engaging gameplay. Personally, I would be cool with just having Neophyte Hybrid rules copied from GSC, with Cult Ambush/Return to the Shadows replaced with Marks, and the option to replace the Autogun with an Autopistol. It gives Chaos access to a cheaper "heavy weapon" team that they don't get in their Troop Choice, the option for a cheapish Razorback-equivalent, and would give Alpha Legion a far more flexible toolbox.

* Chaos Elites currently move like Infantry no matter what, or they don't have a proper "Fire Support" option. Several thoughts include: Chosen may take 2 Heavy Weapons, Chosen may take Bikes/Chaos Steeds, Forgefiends/Maulerfiends get moved to Elites (also cleaning up the Heavy Support slot), etc.

* Chaos doesn't have any barrage weapons, and other than Noise Marines lacks innate cover-busting weapons. Back in 3.5, the Defiler could be upgraded to have Indirect Fire. Why not lower the cost of the Defiler and make that an option again? (Other than "oh wait, blast weapons are gone", but yay 8th).

* Allow *ANY* non-special HQ to take a Bike or Mount. Allow HQ Bikes to upgrade their Combi-Bolters to Melta/Plasma. Enjoy Doomrider.

Honestly, at this point I just want them to re-do the entire lineup.

New tacticals, havocs, bikes, chosen, possessed, obliterators/mutilators and all new HQ's in plastic. Everything in Terminator armour.

I would like to see a Dreadclaw, new Flyer similar to the Storm Raven, Chaos Land Raider, fortifications, Chaos Razorbacks.

If they retain, as they should, the ability to run 20 man infantry units of marines, they need a 20 man transport - or the ability to split a squad between two transports.

I'm guessing what we will actually get is 'primaris' chaos marines in a few forms

I want Thousand Sons to have a good, in-house way to spam psykers. <Thousand Sons> Cultist Champions should be able to cast Smite.

Spawnhood.

If they give marks back I would like to see the Mark of Tzeentch to be changed to something that's actually useful on a non-character model. That way I could use things like marked chosen, marked marines, and marked raptors and such and actually benefit from the expense.

Reroll failed armor saves outright may be too powerful, but simply being able to reroll 1s would be better than +1 invuln.

Another option would be to make squad leaders/champions gain +1 to their psyker level. This way Rubrics would get 2s, they could make scarabs cheaper so the mark can make their champ a 2, and if we take other units their champions would become level 1s.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Marks / Slannesh: Attacks first in melee, unless it encounters a unit with a similar rule. In that case, resolve both sets of "firsts" as normal attacks before anyone else.

Dere we go.

Or, alternatively...

 techsoldaten wrote:

Marks / Slannesh: +2" Movement

I don't think +1T is as valuable as before for the Mark of Nurgle. Maybe +2T could be better. It looks very lackluster compared with the +1Attack from Khorne.

Personally I think all of the "Chapter/Legion/Craftworld" bonusses should have their drawbacks. But as in 8th we are having that kind of buffs to every faction isn't as bad as before if they are free and have no drawbacks.

I have just started a Night Lords army, so hopefully some decent rules for them that doesn't involve many demons or corrupted units.

 Goat wrote:
or make them work the way they used to.

Welcome to 8th, where units get specific roles and tasks and nothing works like it used to.

Anything they do to marks will just give more "flavour" without actually doing anything but make our stuff more expensive, especially if we are forced to take them.

We still suffer from two issues. Against flying, and our delivery systems.

1 . Delivery systems in general are expensive this edition. Even a base Rhino with default combi bolter is 72 points. A Land raider is going to set you back 350 points at least. I am sure forgeworld has other stuff (I don't play FW). But they all cost points.

2. CSM in general have problems with flying armies. Like a 3 to 5 Storm Raven list. It doesn't matter what he puts inside those SR. He gets to fly around and shoot you at leisure for the first 3 turns. By the time he is ready to disembark his troops, its just mop up time. (I mean, look at the weapons on each SR).

I could design an awesome mass berserker list. Very fluffy too, but the list will just stand there twiddling its thumbs while getting shot to death because ground troops can't even assault flyers. (But our flyers can all be assaulted, go figure). So go shooty? But CSM isn't the best at shooting anyway. We aren't supposed to be shooting specialists. And try shooting 5 SR. They are at -1 to hit while flying anyway, and each has 14 T7 wounds with 3+ save. Most of the time, all the marks either make us more resilient or make us fight better. Same with whatever modifications they would do to our units or strategies. But all that is irrelevant if we can't even assault a flyer who is in the sky.

I tried designing a similar list to a 3 to 5 SR list. The best I could come up with is 3 to 4 Land Raiders ... The difference in flexibility, mobility and points is so huge its dumb.And before people say play objectives. There is a very high chance a 4 to 5 SR list will table you if you ignore them for 5 to 7 turns. It doesn't matter what kind of objectives game you are trying to play if you auto lose from being tabled.

Just give me back my Spawns who can move 12 inches.

New chaos marine trooper models! And I am also expecting an awesome cultists box. It should have all options available and then some, and at least a head option, like hoods or flak helmets. They should also have icon options and may be even a 'magus' option, a champion upgrade that could use psychic powers. Throw in a cool chaotic familiar that can do something, make chaos chaotic again. If plague cultists are a thing then zombie heads as well. I was relieved that the 'champion of chaos' rule did not make it into the index but now I am worried again. And please give us new cover art! That khorne berserker is not scary and it was on a cover of a BL novel iirc.

a plastic replacement for all the finecrap.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Just give me back my Spawns who can move 12 inches.

Was planning to use Spawn in a game today and hadn't noticed that. How can something be a Fast Attack option and only move 7 inches?

I've used spawn succesfully 3 times by keeping them down to 1 unit and having a DP cast warpspeed on them. But this isn't a tactics thread so I'll leave it at that.

What I want is to have my army feel unique again. I play thousand sons and while I certainly feel like I'm playing one of the more unique armies; my unit selection is so small that it feels like I'm playing the same army every time despite trying to change things up a little.

Relics and psychic powers hopefull will bring a change to that.

DaPino wrote:
I've used spawn succesfully 3 times by keeping them down to 1 unit and having a DP cast warpspeed on them. But this isn't a tactics thread so I'll leave it at that.

What I want is to have my army feel unique again. I play thousand sons and while I certainly feel like I'm playing one of the more unique armies; my unit selection is so small that it feels like I'm playing the same army every time despite trying to change things up a little.

Relics and psychic powers hopefull will bring a change to that.

I seriously doubt Thousand Sons will work as an army, either fluff or crunchwise, in 8th edition unless GW removes the "Rule of One", or reverts from using the 8e Psy system to using a modified/reworked 7e system. I remember way back in 5th edition, that Psykers were usable as your "mandatory HQ" if they had a good support aura (Null Zone, Tempest's Wrath, Sanguine Shield, etc) and/or could bring excellent anti-Psi. One particular piece of hilarity was watching Space Wolves with Njal go up against Tyranids, since so many of their "support powers" (Catalyst/Onslaught/Paroxysm) could simply be shut down on a 3+ (not to mention Jaws, of course). The old Gav Thorpe "Doom and Banshees" problem of "Dependency = Synergy, hurr!"

I was *painfully* disappointed with Wrath of Magnus, both from a fluff standpoint (If Exalted Sorcerers are mutated as hell, what was the point of the Rubric again?) and from a crunch standpoint (Rubric Marines and Scarab Terminators were criminally overcosted, Tzaangors had no options, the Grand Cabal was a giant "Buy Magnus and Scarab Terminators now! BUY BUY BUY" shill, 3 of the 1k Sons formations were copy-paste "here's a bunch of Psykers. They Harness Warp Charge on 3+, Daemons got crazy formations, and Magnus was so good that he ended up being used as a Psychic death-ray for Daemon Flying Circuses and you never actually saw him leading Rubric Marines). Needless to say, I *immediately* went for doing a rewrite of Wrath of Magnus: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zdZZxGYG6DHCbPMJTK7DiMrcM3siKPlHz2i6gWcU2Tg/edit?usp=sharing

Note: When I describe things I consider failure in the WoM ruleswriting, I'll comment on it with (Derpderp!). Sadly, this was a pretty common thing.

Notable things I tried to do then, which should be mimicked in 8th:
-I had modified the Mark of Tzeentch so that "models with Veterans of the Long War get a 5++ base", to make things more interesting. Characters with MoT/DoT could become ML 1 Psykers. Granted, this may be meaningless in an edition of save mods. Maybe something where they can adjust "unit" die-rolls by +-1? This needs some thoughts.
-I modified Tzaangors, so their Brayherd could take Close Combat options, and modified Relic Hunter so rather than "re-roll to hit Characters/models with Relics" (Relic-bearers are generally able to kick Tzaangor butt, rerolls or not), I let them "modify" the result of "random terrain" (Mysterious Objectives, Armored Crates, etc), as they were good at sniffing out hidden treasure. I then added Scout so they would have additional "Utility".
-I added more "utility/customization" formations, rewrote the War Cabal to mimic 30k Prosperine Cult Bonuses. The War Cabal could take "Fiends", with the ability to channel spells through them (akin to WMH Arc Nodes), etc. I wanted to see what sort of crazy combos could come from this.
-Siphon Magic was a poor idea for a Psychic Power. A Psyker would cast it, then would save Warp Charge to use later in the turn. The problem: If you were a Mastery Level 1 Psyker, Siphon Magic was a *useless* spell for you, since casting it meant you couldn't cast any other powers for that turn, and thus couldn't use any Warp Charge you tried to save! (Derpderp!). What ended up happening was: Magnus and Friends fly on-table, Magnus casts Siphon Magic, the Daemon Princes cast their powers, and Magnus then uses the accumulated Warp Charge to finish off with The D. (Derpderp!). I replaced Siphon Magic with a "Reverse Gate of Infinity", akin to The Conjuring from 5e Grey Knights.
-In 7th edition, you could take Magnus in a non-1k Sons detachment. This meant you could take a CAD of Typhus and Plague Zombies, and unlock Magnus as your Lord of War. (Derpderp!) In 8th, you have even less restrictions, and can slot Magnus wherever the feth you want because as a Lord of War, Magnus is his own detachment! In the homebrew, I said "Magnus MUST be your Warlord, and can only be taken in a 1k Sons detachment". For 8e, something like "Every model must have the Tzeentch Keyword" (or no opposing god Keywords).
-Exalted Sorcerers were bland and lazy. Perhaps the derpiest thing about them was their ability "Lord of the Silver Tower". Described fluff-wise as the equivalent of a Low Orbit Ion Cannon (a beam of light coming from the sky), it was akin to a Chapter Master's Barrage, except with less strength, a smaller blast radius, and it wasn't actually a Barrage! (Derpderp!). I lowered the Strength and made it "reusable". In 8e, it should probably be a Stratagem instead.
-I had modified every Formation from Wrath of Magnus to be "modular" in its nature. Basically, you had your 1 HQ and 3-9 units, with 9 units granting Favored of Tzeentch. HOWEVER, the formations had a restriction where one of the units in the formation was considered the "Mainstay", meaning you had to take at least one of that unit for each other non-mainstay you wanted to take. This was to prevent situations like running a War Cabal with 1 Exalted Sorcerer, 1 unit of Rubric Marines, and 3 of Scarab Occult Terminators (Derpderp!), or other skews (like how 8th is promoting nowadays).

Mark o Khorne should be +1 Strength when charging, Berzerkers don't need more attacks they need more powerful attacks and if anything else you give Mark of Khorne to isn't already good at close combat more attacks aren't going to help it suddenly in melee. +1 Strength will allow Chosen to be good melee units as well without relying on dedicated melee weapons. Warp Talons would also be great. Or even +1 WS in the first round of combat would make all Khorne infantry and dino-bots amazing. Or, feth it, just give me the ability to deny powers on my Mark of Khorne units.

Khorne (or World Eaters) Stratagems should include:

* Advance and charge with a single unit
* Move out of deep strike with one unit
* Ability to deny a power and cause an auto perils
* Ability to let one unit go twice in the fight phase (does not effect Berzerkers or Kharn)

Warlord Traits should be one that makes you stronger the more you kill. Also GIVE ME BACK MY AXE OF BLINDFURY PLEASE AND THANK YOU! Also also GIVE ME BACK MY TORRENT FLAMER FLAMER OF DOOM CAUSE IT WOULD BE AMAZING NOW!

 MagicJuggler wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I've used spawn succesfully 3 times by keeping them down to 1 unit and having a DP cast warpspeed on them. But this isn't a tactics thread so I'll leave it at that.

What I want is to have my army feel unique again. I play thousand sons and while I certainly feel like I'm playing one of the more unique armies; my unit selection is so small that it feels like I'm playing the same army every time despite trying to change things up a little.

Relics and psychic powers hopefull will bring a change to that.

I seriously doubt Thousand Sons will work as an army, either fluff or crunchwise, in 8th edition unless GW removes the "Rule of One", or reverts from using the 8e Psy system to using a modified/reworked 7e system

I disagree, the flaws keeping them from functioning crunchwise aren't in the psychic phase. They struggle to put bodies on the table with cultists and tzaangors being a bit more expensive than one would expect for how fragile they are. Rubrics are similarly expensive and frustratingly vulnerable to morale if you try to take them in units of 10 or more. But brimstone horrors back by deepstriking scarab occult terminators and your choice of supporting vehicles/demon engines is a solid configuration (note anythign with an invulnerable save gets more mileage from HQs). Maybe not top tier, but probably on par with normal CSM.

They aren't good at psychic spam however, rubrics and scarrab occult being expensive enough you probably don't want to risk the perils for a single mortal wound unless you are so close you can hurt some enemy units as well. Multiple sorcerers aren't worth the pricetag either. But taking magnus and a second sorcerer for backup and you've got a decent enough list.

CAN should be able to be equipped with a Boltgun, Bolt Pistol AND a Chainsword.

It's been like this for years and lots of mine are modelled that way :(

Only request really

SilverAlien wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I've used spawn succesfully 3 times by keeping them down to 1 unit and having a DP cast warpspeed on them. But this isn't a tactics thread so I'll leave it at that.

What I want is to have my army feel unique again. I play thousand sons and while I certainly feel like I'm playing one of the more unique armies; my unit selection is so small that it feels like I'm playing the same army every time despite trying to change things up a little.

Relics and psychic powers hopefully will bring a change to that.

I seriously doubt Thousand Sons will work as an army, either fluff or crunchwise, in 8th edition unless GW removes the "Rule of One", or reverts from using the 8e Psy system to using a modified/reworked 7e system

I disagree, the flaws keeping them from functioning crunchwise aren't in the psychic phase. They struggle to put bodies on the table with cultists and tzaangors being a bit more expensive than one would expect for how fragile they are. Rubrics are similarly expensive and frustratingly vulnerable to morale if you try to take them in units of 10 or more. But brimstone horrors back by deepstriking scarab occult terminators and your choice of supporting vehicles/demon engines is a solid configuration (note anythign with an invulnerable save gets more mileage from HQs). Maybe not top tier, but probably on par with normal CSM.

They aren't good at psychic spam however, rubrics and scarrab occult being expensive enough you probably don't want to risk the perils for a single mortal wound unless you are so close you can hurt some enemy units as well. Multiple sorcerers aren't worth the pricetag either. But taking magnus and a second sorcerer for backup and you've got a decent enough list.

Brimstones are dirt-cheap for their durability; they're glaringly good for their abilities, especially since you can run a daisy-chain of them next to Changeling. It's quite silly really. :>

Rule of 1 is a bad game design decision from scalability 101. Playing a 200-point game? You can cast a given power only once per turn. Playing a 2000-point game? You can cast a given power only once per turn. Playing a 20,000 point game? You get the drift. Imagine Guard only being able to issue each Order once per turn, and only getting 3 Orders.

Costing has been a general problem for Thousand Sons. An incomplete toolbox is a second problem. I'll recap several "problems/solutions" from the 7e 1k Sons rewrite I have there, as just because the *mechanics* have changed, the army itself has fundamentally similar problems! Such problems, and the tenative fixes are included:

Poor Economy of Force: 40k from 3rd to 7th edition has been "one unit shoots at one unit." A small number of units started to buck this trend from 5th edition onwards, with abilities like Power of the Machine Spirit, Split Fire, etc. This meant that if an Exalted Sorcerer wished to throw a Doombolt/Bolt of Change at an enemy tank, the Rubric Marines got to sit still and look pretty (assuming it wasn't 7th edition). This issue became especially noticable in Wrath of Magnus, where Rubric Marines could take a Soulreaper Cannon if they had exactly 10 models in their unit!
Solution: 8e fixed the "split fire" aspect, but then introduced Battleshock. If Rubrics remained Fearless, and/or could take a Soulreaper Cannon at 5 models, and an additional one at 10 or more models, it would be easier for them to be "all-purpose". In the 7e rewrite I had, the Grand Cabal was modified so that Split-Fire was one of the Formation Bonuses. Given that you're running multiple small infantry Troops, without Objective Secured, it was a fair trade. (Incidentally, removing Obsec was a bad idea for 8th IMO. It penalizes "small Elite" armies like Deathwing, but makes Objectives about "horde of chaff", or having models so large, no enemy models can physically approach the objective.)

Magic is For Monsters, And Doesn't Scale: In 7e, you got D6+(Mastery Level) Warp Charges. A Psyker throwing a die down on a single WC power had a 0-50 chance of that power going off. Combined with "Pooling", and the game penalized you for trying to run multiple small Psykers, and players would instead take point-efficient Warp-Charge units (meaning Daemons) to act as "batteries" for hi-power casters (meaning Magnus). Every competitive Wrath of Magnus list was about avoiding taking any Rubric units whatsoever! Furthermore: In 7e, "Deny the Witch" only got bonuses against "offensive" powers (Maledictions and Witchfires), meaning Psykers ended up being used either for Summoning, or buff-stacking/Deathstar creation. In 8e, you have Psychic Focus which prevents casting a power a second time (even if it fails to go off the first time!). Thus, you want to get the Psyker that is most likely to successfully manifest in the first place (meaning: Magnus).
Solution: What made Magnus such a desirable "Battery" in 7th edition was that he knew Siphon Magic, a *really* problematic power for several reasons: The power was *useless* for ML 1 Psykers (as it let them store Warp Charge, but counted as their Power so they couldn't actually do anything with the power!), it was "multiplicative" (If one Psyker manifested a power, every nearby Psyker that had Siphon Magic up would gain a Warp Charge), and it was "recursive" (If a Psyker successfully cast a power, got a charge back from Siphon Magic!). Plus the RAW led to an un-FAW'd question over whether Siphon Magic let you store dice across turns! Thus I replaced that power with "Webwarp" (5e Grey Knight players will recognize this as The Conjuring), and reworked the "bonus Warp Charge Tokens" to be a detachment-wide bonus for the Grand Coven (If one Psyker from the detachment manifested a power, and it wasn't denied, another Psyker from the same Detachment within 9" of that Psyker gained a token which could be used that turn as a "bonus Warp Charge", but you had to spend at least 1 WC as normal). Thus, no "Magnus without Rubrics, and a Heralds Anarchic battery" shenanigans. The War Cabal was also given the "Psychic Assault" bonus, where an "additional free die" could be used for Witchfires/Maledictions. In 8th edition, one potential way to port this over would be: "Anytime a Thousand Sons Sorcerer manifests Smite on an enemy unit and it is not denied, place a Ritual Token on that unit after resolving the power. Smite does an additional Mortal Wound versus an enemy unit for each Ritual Token on it. At the end of the Psychic Phase, discard all Ritual Tokens." Although this wouldn't be as "characterful" as the varied powers of 7e (even if only half of them were any good for Tzeentch), it would level the field for multiple small Psykers versus one giant Psychic Boombox. :> Given the lethality of Perils, Aspiring Sorcerers got a second wound.

Thousand Sons Don't Have Variety: Ironically, Thousand Sons were a fairly bland army to play. For most of 40k, the Sorcerer sergeants were the only models with any options! If you analyze the entire 1k Sons armory from 7e, you'll notice the majority of their army is AP 3 anti-infantry. S4 Inferno Bolters, Scarab Terminators with S4 Power Swords, and the odd option for AP3 Heavy Flamers or S5 AP 3 Assault Cannons. And that's it really. Nobody ever took Warpflamers on vanilla Thousand Sons, because they were arguably a downgrade in every way that mattered! Thousand Sons could not Overwatch/Sweep/Run, but they could Assault after firing their AP 3 Bolters. You had the option to pay 7 points per Thousand Son (making them cost only 1 point less than a Chaos Terminator, which had Deep Strike, a *choice* of CCW, Combi, etc), in order to get...an AP 4 Flamer, which as an Assault Weapon gained nothing from S&P (you could already assault after shooting with it), and couldn't even be used for Overwatch! And it gave Warpflame, just because why not? (Derpderp!). If you look at their Grand Coven from 7e, 3 of their Formations were "copy-pastes" ("Here, take a lot of Sorcerers", and their only other unique Auxiliary...required a Sorcerer and a ton of Tzaangors, a unit with no options!
Solutions: One of the first things I did was rework Warpflame weapons to be +1 Strength instead of -1 AP, while keeping the Warpflame; they were made a "free swap". There's a dramatic difference between S4 AP 3 and S5 AP 5. (Or S4, -2 Save or S5, No Save mod) Since AP 3 was something 1k Sons already had plenty of, I replaced the Power Swords on the Scarab Occult Terminators with a Prosperine Khopesh (S5, AP 4, Rending), something which was mostly usable for "chaff control", or for monster-hunting in a pinch. Then this is where I probably went overboard on reworking abilities and formations! Several of the bonuses could easily be turned into "unit upgrades" for a proper 8e 1k Sons codex! The second "unique bonus" I gave the War Cabal was called "Arcane Vessels:" The formation was capable of taking 1-3 Forgefiends/Maulerfiends, and a Psyker from same Formation could use a Forge/Maulerfiend within 9" as the "point of origin" for manifesting a Psychic Power (even "Self-Targeted" Blessings/Novas/Beams). The War Cabal was modified to a "Chosen/Terminators" Brotherhood formation, where casting BRB powers had a secondary "chaser effect" (akin to 30k Prosperine Cults). Exalted Sorcerers and Scarab Occult Terminators could be substituted for Sorcerers/Terminators for generic Formation requirements (so you could have Scarab Terminators double-tap on the drop via a TAF), letting Cultists/Defilers/Obliterators serve as a "Spireguard" analogue, etc! Viability is one thing, an army should have variety and not be spammy!

 MagicJuggler wrote:

DaPino wrote:
I've used spawn succesfully 3 times by keeping them down to 1 unit and having a DP cast warpspeed on them. But this isn't a tactics thread so I'll leave it at that.

What I want is to have my army feel unique again. I play thousand sons and while I certainly feel like I'm playing one of the more unique armies; my unit selection is so small that it feels like I'm playing the same army every time despite trying to change things up a little.

Relics and psychic powers hopefull will bring a change to that.

I seriously doubt Thousand Sons will work as an army, either fluff or crunchwise, in 8th edition unless GW removes the "Rule of One", or reverts from using the 8e Psy system to using a modified/reworked 7e system.

There's no AoS style "Rule of One" in 40k though, the only limit being that same psyker can't use same spell

Edit: Nvm, forgot that one in matched play. Though I think any reasonable player will just be okay with forgetting that one exists. Tournaments on the other hand...

Chosen with boltguns, bolt pistol and chainsword. I wish they hadn't invalidated my DV chosen. In fact, a reason to take chosen at all would be nice. Forgefiend able to move and shoot without -1 to hit. Same with the Defiler's battle cannon.

Re: Thousand Sons, I hear you about the issues there. Many of my friends who invested in armies are disappointed with what they have seen so far in 8th edition. Hoping the Codex alleviates some of those issues.

They need their own psychic tables and stratagems for the psychic phase.

That's where their unique play on the table is supposed to be represented.