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So far it's just theoryhammer - a Take All Comers Chaos list that could match and possibly beat Stormraven spam. It also more or less looks like an army of Khorne, and not like Top Gun.

2000 pts, 4 Command Points

Spearhead Detachment

HQ:
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage 340 pts

Heavy Support:
Land Raider (h. bolter, all the lascannons, combi-bolter, havoc) 369 pts
Land Raider (h. bolter, all the lascannons, combi-bolter, havoc) 369 pts
5 Havocs (4 lascannons) 165 pts
5 Havocs (4 lascannons) 165 pts
8 Havocs (4 lascannons) 204 pts

Battalion Detachment: World Eaters

HQ:
Dark Apostle (mace) 76

Troops:
9 Berzerkers (1 x chainsword + bolt pistol, 8 x chainsword + chain axe) 144
5 Berzerkers (chainsword + bolt pistol) 80
5 Berzerkers (chainsword + bolt pistol) 80

Land Raiders and Havocs are a match for only 3-4 Stormravens, but in order to get the most out of Stormraven's guns, they need to get closer - but then, they could get charged by the Bloodthirster, and the Bloodthirster eats flyers for lunch.

Against more balanced armies, Berzerkers go inside Land Raiders, limiting the number of non-vehicle targets on board. Then they charge from up close, supported by the Apostle and along with the BT, while lascannons take care of the most dangerous targets.

Alternatively, the Berzerkers bind the enemy's close combat troops while Land Raiders reposition Havocs.

What do you think? Would you have any improvements? Do you know if there are lists that would massacre the Khornies?

(I didn't use Forgeworld, because a) I don't have the rules, b) this resin, people! It's bad.)

This looks like a very solid Khorne list.

I like that you backed them up with serious firepower.

You never know what you will face and being able to sling some d6 wounds will help with most anything that is hard to kill.

Although I would recommend Chain Axes and Power Fists that is where the money is for Berzerkers. If not they will get bogged down even with all of their attacks.

I'd say that a major weakness is heavy alpha-strike armies. They have immediate access to your key units.

Either roll or be rolled-nice! These are the armies I love to play- glass cannons are the best.

Thanks for the comments!

Sick Bag wrote:

Although I would recommend Chain Axes and Power Fists that is where the money is for Berzerkers. If not they will get bogged down even with all of their attacks.

Now I know that everybody swears by Chain Axes. But with all my calculations, chainsword + pistol Berzerkers turn out better. I don't know, maybe I am wrong? But so far I haven't seen calculations that would prove me otherwise.

Power fists are cool, though. I didn't want to take them because I already had some serious anti-armour (BT and all the long range support), and had few marine bodies. But maybe I could fit one if I removed some marines from this 8-man Havoc squad.

Lancelot185 wrote:I'd say that a major weakness is heavy alpha-strike armies. They have immediate access to your key units.

Good point. I guess I could use a screen - probably either cultists or Brimstones (goodbye, fluff). But I'm not sure what I would remove then.

Alternatively, I could remove some marines and one Land Raider gun and get a Rhino. Then I could deploy all the infantry inside transports. It's not much help if the alpha strike involves melta and those kinds of things, but maybe it would be of some use anyway?

 skybax wrote:
Now I know that everybody swears by Chain Axes. But with all my calculations, chainsword + pistol Berzerkers turn out better. I don't know, maybe I am wrong? But so far I haven't seen calculations that would prove me otherwise.

Let's run some math vs MEQ:

A berzerker with a chainsword and a bolt-pistol:
1. Shoots in his turn 1A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 11.1%);
2. Charges, hits 3A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 33.3%), hits second time 3A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 33.3%);
3. Fights in enemy turn: 3A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 33.3%), hits second time 3A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 33.3%);
Total: 144.4% to cause an unsaved wound in one battle round. So 10 guys kill about 14 MEQs.

A berzerker equipped with a chainsword and a chainaxe:
1. Charges, hits 2A with axe (3+, 3+, 4+ = 44.4%) and 1A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 11.1%), hits second time 2A with axe (3+, 3+, 4+ = 44.4%) and 1A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 11.1%);
3. Fights in enemy turn: 2A with axe (3+, 3+, 4+ = 44.4%) and 1A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 11.1%), hits second time 2A with axe (3+, 3+, 4+ = 44.4%) and 1A (3+, 4+, 3+ = 11.1%);
Total: 222.2% to cause an unsaved wound in one battle round. So 10 guys kill about 22 MEQs.

They also have benefits against vehicles/monsters (T7, Sv3):
Chainsword and bolt-pistol - 96.3% vs chainsword and chainaxe - 118,5%.
Almost 10 wounds from 10 pistol guys vs almost 12 wounds from chainaxe guys.

Chainaxes + Chainswords are infinity better than pistols any day of the week. Power Fists on the Champ is huge as well since you'll be wounding 90% of things on 3+.

A unit of 50 Mutant Rabble is 200 points and makes a great screen against Alpha Strike. Chaos Spawn are also great speed bumps.

If you want to stay fluffy, mutant rabble are definitely your best bet. If you want the best screen possible, brimstones will be your best bet.

Mutant Rabble seems like the way to go.

OxyD - good point about the opponent's turn! I never thought about it. I always counted on massacring the opponent's units on turn 1.

I like the list!

I think forget about the screen. Yours is kinda an alpha strike army too. It just all boils down to who goes first. Once you start adding screens, you start to weaken the core strength of your army. You don't see Storm Raven armies with screens do you?

In any case, if your opponent goes first and his is an alpha strike army, he still has to choose. Go for your two LRs? go for your bloodthirster? Go for your havocs? I doubt his alpha strike is so good it can take out all of your heavy support in one turn.

If you are forced to go second and are worried about say deep strikers and need to deploy more defensively. Then that's what your berserkers will be for. Deploy them as a defensive screen if you need to. They won't be the priority targets anyway.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I like the list!

I think forget about the screen. Yours is kinda an alpha strike army too. It just all boils down to who goes first. Once you start adding screens, you start to weaken the core strength of your army. You don't see Storm Raven armies with screens do you?

In any case, if your opponent goes first and his is an alpha strike army, he still has to choose. Go for your two LRs? go for your bloodthirster? Go for your havocs? I doubt his alpha strike is so good it can take out all of your heavy support in one turn.

If you are forced to go second and are worried about say deep strikers and need to deploy more defensively. Then that's what your berserkers will be for. Deploy them as a defensive screen if you need to. They won't be the priority targets anyway.

Stormravens don't need screens because not much can lock them down/even get into combat. Most gunline armies need screens.

But I agree, most alpha strike lists decimate this t1. A lot of this lists damage is in CC, so you're waiting for a while to get into combat, and it's gonna be a few turns before you get to an alpha strikes big hitters after you wade through the chaff.

I don't feel this list would benefit screens that we'll, as you WANT to be in CC, so you're constantly moving forward. Screens may give you the charge however.

I feel even going first you'll struggle with serious alpha strike lists, as your lascannon scan only do so much heavy lifting before their t1, and then your thirster/1 LR min is dead

Edit: didn't see the lascannons on LR. Hmm, might be good against a lot of alpha strikes then. Necrons however...