Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Kastelan robots are now basically controlled by AI as you don't have to take a datasmith.

Maybe they are like roombas. Or the Mechanicum finally developed remote controls.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
Maybe they are like roombas

I don't think I'd trust a Kastelan to clean my house, cleansing fire and all.

They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

I love them too, that description comes dangerously close to tech heresy though. Sounds like they could be easily possessed men of iron style.

IFC_Casting wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

I love them too, that description comes dangerously close to tech heresy though. Sounds like they could be easily possessed men of iron style.

Yep, it's in the fluff that they sometimes just decide to ignore the cards and wander off. I particularly like this quote:

‘Evaluation report ceta nine-gamma, decimus thirty-three. Subtle alterations to the Kastelans’ assault protocols produced unsatisfactory results, including an anomalous tendency for prolonged mutilation at the expense of efficiency. I shall continue my experimentation.’
- Magos Xygrus Octelans

Sometimes it feels like there's more heretics or heretical acts committed in the imperium than in the traitor legions.

IFC_Casting wrote:
I love them too, that description comes dangerously close to tech heresy though. Sounds like they could be easily possessed men of iron style.

No not at all, they don't have self-awareness like the Men of Iron did, who had a powerful AI implemented. Kastelan Robots are relics of a past age too holy to be doubted anyway. And Chaos has the ways to possess machines already, they're the heretics !

There are still heretical robots with a dangerous self-awareness in the Legio Cybernetica, though. They're just mentioned in the codex rather than being allowed in the army list (yet).

The Thanatar, Castellax, Vorax, Vultarax...

... I love them. And the fact that self-preservation can, at times, override their programmed objective is indication of at least some level of awareness.

That and the simple fact that when you give them new instructions, now and again they disregard it and murderize you.

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

In Rogue Trader era your robots were controlled by an program you had to build out of a series of tiles, and pay points for. You programmed your robots when writing the army list by buying commands and then linking them together - complete with "Goto B" type elements that'd prevent your robots ending up in a dead end (unless of course you were stuck for points and trying to trim whatever fat you can) and some damage could even change a command tile into a malfunction one, where the outcome was randomised rather than in response to any particular query (important if you had "Is Target an Enemy?" right after your "Acquire Target" tile.)

These programs were stored on a "Cortex" a small sheet of bioplastic about the same size as a credit card that the Legio Cybernetica handler is able to slot into the robot before the battle. The datasmiths being able to change the programs in the Kastelans is a nod to these old, crazy rules. Though now I've been reminded of them I'm quite tempted to give the old ones a go in a game of Shadow war - they're such an odd quirk that is probably the most Rogue Tradery thing you can imagine (you bet there's D100 tables) that you can find a few examples if you look for Rogue Trader robot rules, or WD104.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
There are still heretical robots with a dangerous self-awareness in the Legio Cybernetica, though. They're just mentioned in the codex rather than being allowed in the army list (yet).

The Thanatar, Castellax, Vorax, Vultarax...

... I love them. And the fact that self-preservation can, at times, override their programmed objective is indication of at least some level of awareness.

That and the simple fact that when you give them new instructions, now and again they disregard it and murderize you.

Oh I love them too ! But there's a difference between the Kastelan class and the 30k Mechanicum ones: they're based on a human ! There was a drawing of a Castellax I think it was, where you see a human skull, its brain and a rest of spinal chord. All around it is the chassis. That's grimdark.

 Aaranis wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
There are still heretical robots with a dangerous self-awareness in the Legio Cybernetica, though. They're just mentioned in the codex rather than being allowed in the army list (yet).

The Thanatar, Castellax, Vorax, Vultarax...

... I love them. And the fact that self-preservation can, at times, override their programmed objective is indication of at least some level of awareness.

That and the simple fact that when you give them new instructions, now and again they disregard it and murderize you.

Oh I love them too ! But there's a difference between the Kastelan class and the 30k Mechanicum ones: they're based on a human ! There was a drawing of a Castellax I think it was, where you see a human skull, its brain and a rest of spinal chord. All around it is the chassis. That's grimdark.

Don't confuse the Castellaxi and the Robots for Thallaxi. The thallaxi are cyber-augmented humans with a brain and spinal cord - the Castellaxi, while having Skulls, either have 2 or 3 humans in them, or the skulls are decorative.

Either way they're awesome and I always love it when I see the face of disgust of one of our Blood Angels player when I tell him about some AdMech stuff. Like when I showed him the servitor in the Sydonian Dragoon

 Aaranis wrote:
Either way they're awesome and I always love it when I see the face of disgust of one of our Blood Angels player when I tell him about some AdMech stuff. Like when I showed him the servitor in the Sydonian Dragoon

It's the release of the Ad Mech stuff that gives me hope that GW still cares about the gritty grimdark stuff inbetween all the sickly noblebright marine-spam

Got to admit they're the most grimdark elements of the Imperium, with the Adeptus Ministorum stuff. Like Penitent Engines and Arco-Flagellants.

I really like that they're returning to the original material for miniatures now.

Tastyfish wrote:


In Rogue Trader era your robots were controlled by an program you had to build out of a series of tiles, and pay points for. You programmed your robots when writing the army list by buying commands and then linking them together - complete with "Goto B" type elements that'd prevent your robots ending up in a dead end (unless of course you were stuck for points and trying to trim whatever fat you can) and some damage could even change a command tile into a malfunction one, where the outcome was randomised rather than in response to any particular query (important if you had "Is Target an Enemy?" right after your "Acquire Target" tile.)

I came in to share this exact information; it's good to see another player who remembers Rogue Trader!

And, that is how I imagine them working now - the automata are essentially running a flow chart of if-then commands, and are unable to think or reason in any way beyond that program. A bit like the sentry guns in Aliens, albeit with legs.

Tastyfish wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

In Rogue Trader era your robots were controlled by an program you had to build out of a series of tiles, and pay points for. You programmed your robots when writing the army list by buying commands and then linking them together - complete with "Goto B" type elements that'd prevent your robots ending up in a dead end (unless of course you were stuck for points and trying to trim whatever fat you can) and some damage could even change a command tile into a malfunction one, where the outcome was randomised rather than in response to any particular query (important if you had "Is Target an Enemy?" right after your "Acquire Target" tile.)

These programs were stored on a "Cortex" a small sheet of bioplastic about the same size as a credit card that the Legio Cybernetica handler is able to slot into the robot before the battle. The datasmiths being able to change the programs in the Kastelans is a nod to these old, crazy rules. Though now I've been reminded of them I'm quite tempted to give the old ones a go in a game of Shadow war - they're such an odd quirk that is probably the most Rogue Tradery thing you can imagine (you bet there's D100 tables) that you can find a few examples if you look for Rogue Trader robot rules, or WD104.

... What? Really?

That is both annoyingly complicated and really awesome.

Tastyfish wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

In Rogue Trader era your robots were controlled by an program you had to build out of a series of tiles, and pay points for. You programmed your robots when writing the army list by buying commands and then linking them together - complete with "Goto B" type elements that'd prevent your robots ending up in a dead end (unless of course you were stuck for points and trying to trim whatever fat you can) and some damage could even change a command tile into a malfunction one, where the outcome was randomised rather than in response to any particular query (important if you had "Is Target an Enemy?" right after your "Acquire Target" tile.)

These programs were stored on a "Cortex" a small sheet of bioplastic about the same size as a credit card that the Legio Cybernetica handler is able to slot into the robot before the battle. The datasmiths being able to change the programs in the Kastelans is a nod to these old, crazy rules. Though now I've been reminded of them I'm quite tempted to give the old ones a go in a game of Shadow war - they're such an odd quirk that is probably the most Rogue Tradery thing you can imagine (you bet there's D100 tables) that you can find a few examples if you look for Rogue Trader robot rules, or WD104.

That is quite awesome. Would love to see current players struggle with programming their own murderbots and fail because of urge to shave some points on targeting

That is quite awesome. Would love to see current players struggle with programming their own murderbots and fail because of urge to shave some points on targeting

I guess these kind of robots would just be deemed as not cost effective and therefore not viable. : /

... These do sound less stable than Doom Diver Catapults.

In 8th Ed it wouldn't be viable. You'd spend a considerable amount of points and time to do that, then you won't have 1st turn and get them one shot, leading to frustration.

That's how I see i anyway

Tastyfish wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
They never were "controlled" in the piloting sense by the Datasmiths, they're actually robots following a program written with code I suppose, set in the doctrina cards that are in their chests. What the Datasmith does is switching these cards to modify their combat protocols to fit the current situation. If a Datasmith died while his robots were in Protector protocols, they'd stay where they are forever while firing their guns at all the targets they can have until they're either destroyed, run out of juice or gets modified by another Datasmith. Trust me I love these robots.

In Rogue Trader era your robots were controlled by an program you had to build out of a series of tiles, and pay points for. You programmed your robots when writing the army list by buying commands and then linking them together - complete with "Goto B" type elements that'd prevent your robots ending up in a dead end (unless of course you were stuck for points and trying to trim whatever fat you can) and some damage could even change a command tile into a malfunction one, where the outcome was randomised rather than in response to any particular query (important if you had "Is Target an Enemy?" right after your "Acquire Target" tile.)

These programs were stored on a "Cortex" a small sheet of bioplastic about the same size as a credit card that the Legio Cybernetica handler is able to slot into the robot before the battle. The datasmiths being able to change the programs in the Kastelans is a nod to these old, crazy rules. Though now I've been reminded of them I'm quite tempted to give the old ones a go in a game of Shadow war - they're such an odd quirk that is probably the most Rogue Tradery thing you can imagine (you bet there's D100 tables) that you can find a few examples if you look for Rogue Trader robot rules, or WD104.

Exalted for truth. Had these rules and had a blast with them. Even if it did mean that some of my robots turned around and started to gun down my own troops as their target acquisition was scrambled a bit... ;-)