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TOTAL: 1998
CP: 9

BATTALION DETACHMENT
Alpha legion

HQ
Chaos lord: 95
    Jump pack, combi bolter, chainsword
    Artefact: blade of hydra

Chaos sorcerer: 128
    Jump pack, force stave, combi bolter
    Prescience & diabolical strength

TROOPS
Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns

Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns

Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns

FAST ATTACK
Warp talons X9: 243

HEAVY SUPPORT
Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

BATTALION DETACHMENT
Alpha legion

HQ
Dark apostle: 78
    Power maul, combi-bolter
    Warlord trait: inspiring leader

Chaos sorcerer: 130
    Jump pack, Force axe, combi bolter
    Death hex & warptime

TROOPS
Cultists X10: 44
    Brutal assault weapons & flamer

Cultists X10: 40
    Brutal assault weapons

Cultists X10: 40
    Brutal assault weapons

REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 495

So I start with nothing but the cultists and dark apostle on the board. He boosts his own leadership to 10 with the warlord trait, thus giving me 60 ld 10 cultists with -1 to hit

First turn I bring down everything, then warp time the warp talons and presience the obliterators. I then use Endless Cacophony to make an obliterator squad shoot twice, while if needed use Veterans of the Long War to make sure they wound most vehicles on a 2+ warp talons then just assault any sort of tanks or gun line with heavy shooting, forcing them to fall back and somewhat sparing my obliterators from counter attack.

Second turn I use my 3 deepstriked characters to summon 3 squads of 20 blood letters with icons (regain d6 models on leadership rolls of 1) and instruments (add 1 to charge and advance rolls) while moving up my cultists to eat over watch and bog down the enemy. Now that blood letters are cheaper, (power level 8) they are much easier to summon, I just need to make 8" charges, and having to make 3 with a single re roll I'm going to average 2 squads making it into combat, giving me 80 s5 ap -3 attacks

Thoughts?

You cant deepstrike characters and summon as it counts as moving. You could use legion stratagem but your not guaranteed to go first so could be risky.

Yup you're totally right. That's why it says second turn at the beginning of the summoning paragraph. And why its a beta strike list.

Mostly makes sense. Have thought about a similar list in the past.

The jump pack Sorcerers would be exposed in turn one, assuming you are moving them forward to buff the Warp Talons / Obliterators. You could count on grabbing cover, but that might not work so well.

Consider putting them in Terminator armor and having them deep strike. Gives you a little more assurance everything will go as planned.

That is a lot of Obliterators. I like it, but realize you don't have enough Sorcerers to buff them all. Why have MoS on them? If the plan is to use Endless Cacophony, that might be a good option. I would rather see them with a better save and think there is a stratagem to do that (too lazy to look it up atm.)

I would count on putting Warp Time on the Bloodletters. I used to summon them 20 at a time and stopped b/c of the failed charges. Not sure I agree with the idea of counting on making any 9 inch charges and would prefer to have a 'guaranteed' option.

Other than that, interesting list.

warp talons they look great and ifffff they can get to combat to be sure they need warp time. say oke turn one you get in to combat kill unit what then? My main army is nids so i know this senario to well your out in the open 1/2 an army ready to try and kill this one unit and next turn you feed him his second course . if
if you want a strike force it should hit like an anvil , and have to many targets to deal with . or its should be a assassin lone star unit expendable just to take out a key unit. like the oblits spamming them is bad unless its your key tactic
You could take terminators no there not sexy nor shiny they do get to take combi plasma take 3x5 you get a minimum of 30 shots leathel for your opponent and your self combine that with your oblits and you get 18 more shots at close range .
you have 3 sorcerers that can give you +1 on a role....
Stuff will die you could change a unit to melta or flamer so they can warptime and charge whats left. put in a chain fist or if you face a lot of sm i would go for icon of exes.. just dont for get to buff them with the +1 on they're rolls
my list feel free to change it you could take out a terminator unit in favor for your warp talons . because now turn one you have enough targets on the battle field

+++ New Roster (WH40k 8th Mobile) [1926 Pts] +++
++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Chaos_Unified) ++
+ HQ +
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword
+ Heavy Support +
3x Obliterator
3x Obliterator
3x Obliterator

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Chaos_Unified) ++

+ Troops +
Chaos Cultists: 10x Cultist
Chaos Cultists: 10x Cultist
Chaos Cultists: 10x Cultist
+ HQ +
Dark Apostle
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword

++ Vanguard (CP +1) (Chaos_Unified) ++
+ Elites +
5x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
5x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
5x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
+ HQ +
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword

Created with BattleScribe

 techsoldaten wrote:
Mostly makes sense. Have thought about a similar list in the past.

The jump pack Sorcerers would be exposed in turn one, assuming you are moving them forward to buff the Warp Talons / Obliterators. You could count on grabbing cover, but that might not work so well.

Consider putting them in Terminator armor and having them deep strike. Gives you a little more assurance everything will go as planned.

That is a lot of Obliterators. I like it, but realize you don't have enough Sorcerers to buff them all. Why have MoS on them? If the plan is to use Endless Cacophony, that might be a good option. I would rather see them with a better save and think there is a stratagem to do that (too lazy to look it up atm.)

I would count on putting Warp Time on the Bloodletters. I used to summon them 20 at a time and stopped b/c of the failed charges. Not sure I agree with the idea of counting on making any 9 inch charges and would prefer to have a 'guaranteed' option.

Other than that, interesting list.

Jump pack sorcerers and lords can deepstrike rendering terminator variants unnecessarily expensive.
I literally stated my intent to use Endless Cacophony and they have a 2+ 5++ save. Why does it need to be much better?
I can't put wartime on the bloodletters as they're not heretic astartes. It's also an 8 inch charge because of the instrument, also as mentioned. If you don't bother reading my over view and don't understand the rules please don't comment

Redinc you do have a point though. In the list you pitched to me, what units would you have start on the table? In matched play the # of units in reserve must be equal to or less than the # units on the table

Thank you for the response. For the record, I did read your list. I also stated my assumptions about how you would play the models, to try an offer you some things to think about.

I don't always like being too direct when pointing out my thoughts because sometimes it hurts people's feelings. Let me try a different approach. There are some things that are plainly worth considering.

With regards to the Sorcerers, I thought it was reasonable to keep them in the backfield instead of deepstriking. When I read the rest of your list, it looks like you would likely have 60 cultists and a Dark Apostle on the board. So please forgive me for thinking you might want to have something else there early game. Some armies - like Ynarri or DE - might actually might have the tools to wipe out several of these units turn one, which could screw up objective grabbing or whatever it is you plan to do with them.

I asked about MoS because I wanted to know why this mark, and noted it might be a good option. The stratagem that allows a Tzeentch Psyker to attempt to manifest an additional power each turn might be more valuable to you with this army, since you have multiple Obliterator units and not enough Sorcerers to buff them all. Prescience on two of them would average statistically more wounds than just one of them firing twice, not to mention it burns fewer command points.

(Unless you play by the matched play rules where no psychic power can be used more than once a turn - in which case, good luck.)

My honest opinion is this list is suboptimal because it overvalues Obliterators to begin with. Most Marines / Eldar / AM lists have the tools to destroy half your offense the turn after it arrives with Plasma / Lascannnons / volume of shooting / psychic debuffs / assaults (we're talking about 9 wounds per unit versus maybe 100+ shots.) Opponents can ignore everything in your backfield the first few turns in favor of just shooting up the deep striking units, as the army has nothing capable of doing anything at more than a 24 inch range.

But if I had to say what the biggest issue is, it's the likelyhood your characters will be exposed after things start shooting up the 3 x 3 man squads of Obliterators. 2+ / 5++ is great, but when it's 3 models at close range, it's hard to count on a specific unit staying on the board too long. A competent opponent will just target the squad that provides the shortest distance to a Sorcerer, opening him up as a target and forcing him to have to move in subsequent rounds (thus denying summoning at that spot.) It's not like there's anything else on the table they need to worry about until the 4th turn.

This point is really important considering the Warp Talons are not guaranteed to get into combat and Bloodletters are not coming on the turn you arrive. Please forgive my confusion about the rules on Warptime, I haven't summoned anything since the first couple weeks after 8th edition hit and am still getting used to the rules. You are right, they get an 8 inch charge capability, provided there's room to actually place them 9 inches away from the enemy. Intervening models from your army, placement of scenery, the need to move a character you were planning to use to summon, placement of sub-optimal units from your opponent, etc, can all make that hard. If you are summoning enough of them - like 495 points worth - you might not even be able to place them all in 12 inches.

Perhaps you already know all this and are planning for enough of your army to be removed from the table for placement not to be an issue when it comes to summoning. Again, a competent opponent would likely find a way to make that charge not mean much, focus on killing off any deep strikers that survived the first round of shooting, then kill off the cultists at range.

Feels like there's a lot that could go wrong here, but perhaps I am all confused about the rules and my insights don't mean much. Were it me, I would exchange some cultists for something with Lascannons that can fire from range and create a secondary threat to have to worry about. CSMs or a Defiler would do it. Or get some Terminators to screen the Obliterators, which have almost no close combat ability.

Good luck!

@ Inspectahdeck
What units start on the table ? well that is very flexible it all depends on what you are facing how many inches you start apart , you have to calculate what you can and want to kill and use force accordingly. have to look at terain ect ect . keep in mind the range on the terminators is very important to get the extra shots and for oblits they have assault waepons so it does not matter that much they could walk and shoot if need be. yesterday i forgot the terminators they have combi weapons you could also fire the bolter and the plasma gun at the same time -1 to hit. giving 4 shots you could lvl that out -1 with that +1 spell so those bolter shots then are basicly S5 and plasma S8 with in 12 inch range you get 60 shots with just 15 guys @3+ to hit ...you could be evil stick a chaos lord with them.. get to reroll those 1s
oke
because of the jump packs for your sorcerers you could start all the sorcerers the oblits and the heretics on the table . deep strike the terminators in. cast presence it has 18 inch range so
and you can move 12 with jumpacks so there is plenty range .

now this is where it gets tricky warp time to get extra movement you dont want those sorceres alone out in the open you want to bubble wrap them so dont go the full 12 inches .
the range is very short so 7 inches for a oblit 9 if you want the cultists...( sounds to much like porn) you will be able to cast warp time make them move faster or get in range .

@techsoldateni
Yes i know oblits are bad for there points now but are in the original list its the theme .you could swap them out with havocs with 4 plasma and 1 combi plasma they could walk up the board get warp time move 12 inches shoot next turn they will be in range for there dubble shots relieve the terminators from action . with points saved it would be great to give the terminators a re-roll of all the ones with a chaos lord deep striking in with them... average just shy of 50 hits . against imperial forces 10 extra shots pff and with presence getting a 1+ armor save ... i think even mortarion would have a bad day against these guys
my revised army list with points 173 points left

+++ alfalegion (WH40k 8th Mobile) [1827 Pts] +++
++ Spearhead (CP +1) (Chaos_Unified) ++
+ HQ +
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword
+ Heavy Support +

5x Havocs: Combi-Plasma, 4x Plasmagun
5x Havocs: Combi-Plasma, 4x Plasmagun
5x Havocs: Combi-Plasma, 4x Plasmagun

++ Vanguard (CP +1) (Chaos_Unified) ++
+ Elites +
5 x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
5 x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
5 x Chaos Terminators: 5x Combi-Plasma, 5x Power Axe,
+ HQ +
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword

++ Battalion (CP +3) (Chaos_Unified) ++
+ Troops +
Chaos Space Marines: 5x Chaos Space Marine
Chaos Space Marines: 5x Chaos Space Marine
Chaos Space Marines: 5x Chaos Space Marine

+ HQ +
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword

Created with BattleScribe

So it's occurred to me that none of you realize that obliterators got 4 shots each with the codex release. As stated before if you guys don't know the rules please don't comment

There is a trick to beta strike armies I have theory hammered about. In order for the beta strike to work you need a strong enough presence on the board to force your opponent to commit their reserve units before you commit yours.

For example, with your original list, if your opponent holds back 4 strong units in reserve while having enough firepower to wipe out cultists and the Dark apostle over 2-3 turns, then you will be forced to commit your reserves early. Like on turns 1-2. Meanwhile your opponent can hold back their reserves (maybe obliterators or podding Sternguard, or scions, etc...). Once you commit to your beta strike, the the opponent can beta strike your beta strike and you are in bad shape.

My suggestion is to have some units on the table to start which will force most people to have to commit their reserve units before you have to commit yours. These units can be strong shooting units or even units that hide out of sight. But something should be on the table that is a threat to force enemy reserve units to commit in rounds 1-2.

DarthDiggler wrote:
There is a trick to beta strike armies I have theory hammered about. In order for the beta strike to work you need a strong enough presence on the board to force your opponent to commit their reserve units before you commit yours.

Good point. Hadn't really thought about it as it hadn't come up in games I've played with this list. Any suggestions as to things I should start with on the board?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TOTAL: 2000
CP: 9

BATTALION DETACHMENT
Alpha legion

HQ
Chaos lord: 95
    Jump pack, combi bolter, chainsword
    Artefact: Blade of the Hydra

Chaos sorcerer: 128
    Jump pack, force stave, combi bolter
    Prescience & diabolical strength

TROOPS
Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns
    Mark of nurgle

Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns
    Mark of nurgle

Cultist X10: 40
    Autoguns
    Mark of nurgle

FAST ATTACK
Warp talons X9: 243

HEAVY SUPPORT
Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

Obliterators X3: 195
    Mark of slaanesh

BATTALION DETACHMENT
Alpha legion

HQ
Dark apostle: 78
    Power maul, combi-bolter
    Warlord trait: inspiring leader

Chaos sorcerer: 130
    Jump pack, Force axe, combi bolter
    Death hex & warptime

Demon prince: 189
    Wings, malefic talons, warp bolter
    Mark of nurgle
    Miasma of pestilence
   

TROOPS
Cultists X10: 40
    Brutal assault weapons
    Mark of nurgle

Cultists X10: 40
    Brutal assault weapons
    Mark of nurgle

Cultists X10: 40
    Brutal assault weapons
    Mark of nurgle

REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 312

How about this. I only summon 38 blood letters (2 separate squads) and I use the prince to make a cultists squad -2 to hit (miasma of pestilence plus alpha legion trait) and he uses a couple squads like that to move up the board. Opponent has incoming threat he can't shoot at and it's bubble wrap is extremely hard to hit making him get close, hopefully with his deepstrike reserves