Switch Theme:

[2000] - CSM Alpha Legion - Competitive List  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

In my quest to figure out the best way to run my Alpha Legion, I came up with this:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment
HQ:
Sorcerer on Bike: Mark of Slaanesh, Force Axe
Sorcerer on Bike: No Mark, Force Stave
Troops:
20 Chaos Cultists: Mark of Slaanesh, 2x Heavy Stubber
10 Chaos Cultists: Mark of Slaanesh
10 Chaos Cultists: Mark of Slaanesh
Fast Attack:
5 Chaos Bikers: Mark of Slaanesh, 2x Meltagun, Combimelta
Detachment 2: Spearhead Detachment
HQ:
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor: No Mark, Combiplasma, Power Fist
Heavy Support:
Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh
5 Havocs: Mark of Slaanesh, 4x Missile Launcher
5 Havocs: Mark of Slaanesh, Lascannon, 3x Autocannon
Detachment 3: Vanguard Detachment
HQ:
Daemon Prince with Wings: Slaanesh, 2x Malefic Talon, Intoxicating Elixir
Elites:
10 Noise Marines: 8x Sonic Blaster, 2x Blastmaster, Icon of Excess
5 Chosen: Mark of Slaanesh, 4x Plasmagun, Combiplasma
Helbrute: No Mark, Twin Lascannon, Missile Launcher
Total 1998 points
Since I've been disappointed with the performance (or rather, lack thereof) of my Berzerkers, I decided to go all-shooty with this list. I decided to go with Terminator armor for the Lord instead of a jump pack because of the extra durability mainly, although I also love the model. I could probably save a few points by swapping that out if needed. I've got a pretty decent backfield firebase with the Havocs and Helbrute, and I would probably use the Alpha Legion stratagem to infiltrate the Chosen and Noise Marines, although that would depend on what my opponent is running. The Prince would take the Diabolic Strength power and cast it on himself to turn into a killing machine. The Slaanesh sorcerer would take Delightful Agonies and Death Hex (although DH could be swapped out against an opponent with few or no invul saves) and the other sorcerer would run Prescience and Warptime. Warptime could get the bikes in a really good position to pop a tank or get the Prince into the opponent's lines quickly. The Oblits would probably drop down near the Chosen, with the Termie Lord dropping near both units to give them both rerolls. Since I marked pretty much everything Slaanesh, I have plenty of candidates for Endless Cacophony or the Delightful Agonies power.

Another thing I'm considering replacing the Termie Lord with is Lord Arkos. He doesn't give the reroll 1's buff, but he can infiltrate for free and gives a free command point in addition to having decent weapons himself. Not sure he's that good a fit in this list, but I'm thinking about it. I already have to come up with some ML Havocs from somewhere, so I'll just kitbash a good counts-as Arkos as well.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






I think that the list looks like it has a lot of good key components, and I would enjoy playing against it. I have some thoughts:

1) Concerning the sorcerers, I like them on a bike. I really don't think there's anything to complain about there. I use the same power breakdown for my two sorcerers. I don't see why not give both MoS. I mean, why not?

2) Cultists are absolutely the strongest troop choices we have. I think that 40 is a good number, but I don't see the heavy stubbers doing much. But if you have the points left over, why not? Although flamers might be more useful, particularly because they'll be used mostly as screens against charges.

3) I loved bikers in my 7th CSM list, but I've not had too much success with them in 8th. I think that maybe it would be best to drop this squad down to 3x, and make them a melta-suicide squad. But then I'd prefer to have two, as one won't do much.

4) In my games my Lord has just really been there for fire support, and so then doesn't often move. In that case terminator armour doesn't really take away anything, so if you love the model then go for it.

5) Obliterators are just amazing now. I assume you have 3? They're always a good choice.

6) I tend to find the Missile Launcher the worst choice of all Havoc weapons. I just would always prefer las cannons. Autocannons can work out, if you're going up against things with lots of invulnerable saves, or two wounds. Perhaps two squads of 2x Autocannons and 2x Lascannons would work out well.

7) I run my DP exactly the same. He's a beast, but just be careful not to send him into battle alone. But as your only other unit that really wants to move is your bikes, he will be alone, as they don't have any CC punch. And without cover he'll get shot down pretty quickly. I'd keep him as a counter-attack unit for when your enemy charges. Send obliterators out to pop tanks.

8) Noise Marines are good, and their load out here is fine.

9) The Chosen are fine, but I would perhaps try to add in two extra chosen just for ablative wounds.

10) The Helbrute is an issue here, not because it's a bad load out, but because it's your only armour. It will die very quickly, as every enemy anti-armour gun will be aimed right at his head. If you're going to bring armour, bring at least 3 (Predators, Forgefiends, and more Helbrutes all fitting your desired army style).



As for overall comments, it looks like a fun list, with lots of unit variety, which I always enjoy. But one thing that your list lacks, and stronger lists need, is consistency. In the sense that, with the exceptions of your cultists, all of your units are unique. This allows your opponent to take out any individual threats. You might want to double up more on certain units. For example, I would drop the cultist squad from 20 to 10, drop the bikes, a unit of havocs, and the helbrute for an extra squad of obliterators and noise marines.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/22 22:23:25


World Eaters: 5780pts
Khorne Daemons: 3450pts
Chaos Knights: 2000pts
Sisters of Battle: 5000pts
Imperial Agents: 410pts

Gloomspite Gitz: 7190pts
Blades of Khorne Daemons: 3810pts
Skaven: 1270pts
Destruction Mercenaries: 470pts
Endless Spells and Incarnates: 1380pts 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Why no unit of 20 berskers infiltrating?

 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

@Tony: I agree with all of your suggestions, but the problem is I don't have the models to implement most of them. I only have one unit of 3 Obliterators, so taking more squads is impossible for me right now (I do hope to come up with at least a couple more units at some point). I do have some more Biker models with meltaguns, so I could run 2 units of those I guess. I put the extra guys in there as ablative wounds mainly so I don't lose the special weapons from just a couple of lucky autocannon hits. I actually don't even have the Missile Launcher Havoc models; I'd have to come up with some more CSM bodies and put loyalist MLs on them. Which I could do. I figured it would be a decent TAC option, but I agree that Lascannons would be better. The Prince is in there partially to deal with pesky flyers (I really hate Stormravens...), but again I get what you are saying in that he'd be alone. Maybe I should drop some stuff and put in a Heldrake. Lastly, the only other Chaos armor models besides that Helbrute that I have are 3 of the DV Helbrutes (Multimelta/Fist), which are not a very good loadout in my experience, and a Forgefiend, which are overcosted and underpowered. Maybe if I leverage the Daemonforge stratagem I could get some work done with a Forgefiend. Maybe that's the whole problem with my CSM collection in general, it's a little too all over the place. I need to collect more of a single thing and spam that in my lists instead of having a little bit of everything.

@wpago: I like the idea of infiltrating a large blob of Berzerkers, but I've struggled to have them perform in games. Usually my Zerkers end up stuck charging something they really don't want to, like cheap chaff units or something big that they struggle to hurt. That's if they get there at all, as my opponents are all smart enough to know what a threat they are and shoot them off the table as quickly as possible. If I had a K-claw for them to ride in, I might give them a try again. Another problem I have is my opponents just interrupting combat with 2 CP and killing a bunch of Zerkers before they even get to swing.

I really do appreciate the feedback, and maybe I can take the advice to heart when planning future purchases for the army. I already know I need more Oblits and Havocs and perhaps more actual Helbrutes, meaning I should consider picking up another Start Collecting CSM box since I can use the CSM in the box for Havocs/Chosen and I get a Helbrute and a Termie character out of it.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Just let the beskers swing first. Also bring anti infantry, like a lot of it. Renegade punisher is good. Cast a couple spells on the beserkers and they should do good. Make them fight 3 times with the command points and thus consolidate up to 9 inches.

 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

So, I tinkered around some more and came up with this revised and hopefully improved version of the list:
Detachment 1: Battalion Detachment
HQ:
Sorcerer on Bike: Mark of Slaanesh, Force Axe
Sorcerer on Bike: Mark of Slaanesh, Force Stave
Troops:
13 Cultists: Autoguns, Mark of Slaanesh
10 Cultists: Autoguns, Mark of Slaanesh
10 Cultists: Autoguns, Mark of Slaanesh
Detachment 2: Spearhead Detachment
HQ:
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor: Mark of Slaanesh, Combi-plasma, Power Fist
Heavy Support:
9 Havocs: Mark of Slaanesh, Lascannon, 3x Autocannon
Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh
Obliterators: Mark of Slaanesh
Detachment 3: Vanguard Detachment
HQ:
Lord Arkos
Elites:
8 Chosen: Mark of Slaanesh, 5x Plasmagun, Combi-plasma
10 Noise Marines: 8x Sonic Blaster, 2x Blastmaster, Icon of Excess
Helbrute: Twin Lascannon, Missile Launcher
Helbrute: Multi-melta, Helbrute Fist
Total 2000 points
I traded out the Prince for Lord Arkos, dropped most of the extra weapons and bodies from the one Cultist squad, and dropped the bikes and missile Havocs in order to get a second squad of Oblits, a second Helbrute (unfortunately a DV one as that's all I've got left modelwise), and some more bodies in both the Havocs and Chosen squads. What I might do is infiltrate Arkos, the Chosen, and the Noise Marines relatively close together, and then drop the Oblits and Termie Lord with them to form a nasty firebase in the middle of the board somewhere. I also realized that you can actually take 5 special weapons in a Chosen squad in addition to the Champion's combiweapon, so hopefully that squad is really nasty now. With the Termie Lord to let them reroll their overheats, they'll murder anything when they overcharge their guns.

Is this a significant improvement on the previous list? I'd have to come up with another set of Obliterator models, but I think my FLGS has another set in the used model bin unless someone else has gotten them already. I'd also have to kitbash an Arkos model, but I was thinking of doing that anyway. All he needs is a combi-melta and sword on a CSM body, and I've got some of those to spare. So it's very doable for me.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Remember that the 2 CP to interrupt combat order cannot be used to interrupt the first unit of the phase. Sounds like your opponent spent 2 CP to attack before charging berzerkers? That's not how that Stratagem works at all.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Zerg,

I made a very similar list! Lots of the same kinds of elements. Let me know how yours works out!

Mine:

Spoiler:
++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [39 PL, 642pts] ++

+ HQ [18 PL, 366pts] +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 183pts]: Hellforged sword [10pts], Intoxicating Elixir, Warp bolter [3pts]
. Slaanesh: Warptime

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 183pts]: Malefic talon [10pts], Warp bolter [3pts]
. Slaanesh: Diabolic Strength

+ Troops [21 PL, 276pts] +

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 160pts]: 39x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [156pts], Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 76pts]: 18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [72pts], No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [36pts], No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ Flyer +

Chaos Fire Raptor Assault Gunship [19 PL, 302pts]: Hellstrike missiles [40pts]
. Quad heavy bolters [72pts]: 2x Quad heavy bolter [72pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [29 PL, 559pts] ++

+ HQ [5 PL, 74pts] +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, No Chaos Mark

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 485pts] +

Havocs [7 PL, 125pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [28pts]: Autocannon [15pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [28pts]: Autocannon [15pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [28pts]: Autocannon [15pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [28pts]: Autocannon [15pts]

Havocs [7 PL, 165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion [13pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [38pts]: Missile launcher [25pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [38pts]: Missile launcher [25pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [38pts]: Missile launcher [25pts]
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon [38pts]: Missile launcher [25pts]

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator [195pts]

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [26 PL, 496pts] ++

+ HQ [7 PL, 127pts] +

Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 127pts]: Delightful Agonies, Force sword [8pts], Mark of Slaanesh, Plasma pistol [7pts], Prescience

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ Elites [19 PL, 369pts] +

Helbrute [7 PL, 147pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher [25pts], Twin lascannon [50pts]

Noise Marines [6 PL, 111pts]
. Marine w/ Blastmaster [35pts]: Blastmaster [20pts]
. 3x Marine w/ Sonic blaster [57pts]: 3x Sonic Blaster [12pts]
. Noise Champion [19pts]: Bolt pistol, Sonic blaster [4pts]

Noise Marines [6 PL, 111pts]
. Marine w/ Blastmaster [35pts]: Blastmaster [20pts]
. 3x Marine w/ Sonic blaster [57pts]: 3x Sonic Blaster [12pts]
. Noise Champion [19pts]: Bolt pistol, Sonic blaster [4pts]

++ Total: [113 PL, 1999pts] ++
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Anybody want to comment on the following two things for CSM lists:

1. Obligators - how good are they, really? Aren't they too expensive?
2. Ten Terminators with Combi-Plasma. I know this must have been discussed before but I am pretty new. I think this bomb is amazing and can experienced player explain to me why I don't see it in winning lists?

Thank you!
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Wow, some replies 3 months later! I'm not ungrateful, but I have definitely moved on as far as my competitive CSM list.

@BadgerCaptain: The situation I was referring to was having multiple units of Zerkers charge and one of them getting interrupted, or having one unit swing, then get interrupted before their second round of swings. Also, my lack of success with them was predicated on my false belief that they are base strength 4, when in fact they are strength 5. This cost me at least one game recently.

@Ovechkin8: I did try this list and another very similar one not too long after I posted it (months ago now). It worked okay, but not great. My current competitive list idea can be found here. Feel free to chime in on that thread and let me know what you think! I like the list you spoilered in your reply; it would not be something I would want to face, which is a good thing!

@yuyangmacc0722: 1: I assume you mean Obliterators. If so, they are extremely good. They always do work when I run them. I like to bring 2-3 units in every CSM list I make. 2: While powerful, 10 CSM Termies are very expensive and a one-trick pony, as no one will let them survive to get off a second volley of plasma. It's close to 500 points in one unit, plus with good screening by your opponent you'll be dropping outside of rapid-fire range with the plasma, which kills the firepower. Obliterators are harder to screen against due to having 24" range assault weapons (so full shots even at full range).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries





If you have the extra bits from your Helbrute box, you could try converting some of those DV brutes. I did this with the heavy bolter and the plasma. Fairly easy.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Army Lists
Go to: