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This recently came up during a friendly game. My friend was playing a new guy, and the new guy pointed out my friend didn't pay points for his hellblasters incinerator weapons. However, in the weapons loadout it says hellblasters already come equipped with them. Are you still supposed to pay for them? Where is this stated in the rule book?? We have never done this and I have never heard of anyon else doing it either! As another example, a predator tank comes with and auto cannon and costs 90 points. So do I then add the autocannon cost to the 90 points to take a "stock" predator tank?

You always have to pay for all wargear. Some wargear that comes automatically with a model (for example, a space marine's boltgun) will be listed as having a cost of 0 but that isn't always the case so it's worth checking.

Yes, you pay for any equipped weapons. It's all noted in the section of the Codex/Index that has the points values in it. It's a change for 8th edition from previous editions.

That means your predators cost more like 160-200 points, not 90. Note, however, that a lot of basic weapons are actually free - check the army list entries for full details.

 SolidOakie wrote:
This recently came up during a friendly game. My friend was playing a new guy, and the new guy pointed out my friend didn't pay points for his hellblasters incinerator weapons. However, in the weapons loadout it says hellblasters already come equipped with them. Are you still supposed to pay for them? Where is this stated in the rule book?? We have never done this and I have never heard of anyon else doing it either! As another example, a predator tank comes with and auto cannon and costs 90 points. So do I then add the autocannon cost to the 90 points to take a "stock" predator tank?

It says it in your Codex or index, and shows in the example army lists they included in the index lists. There are a few unit types (typically special characters) that are listed as having their point cost include them. It was a common error when 8th edition came out, but yes, you are doing it wrong.

Look in the point cost section.
Under "Points per model" it says either "(Including wargear)" or "(Does not include wargear)".

Wow thanks everyone! I had no idea! This changes everything, honestly it will work out well for me because my buddy loves running hellblasters and all the other primaris stuff with a zillion guns

EDIT: Oh man so a land raider with twin lascannons is actually over 300 points holy moly

 SolidOakie wrote:


EDIT: Oh man so a land raider with twin lascannons is actually over 300 points holy moly

Some vehicles are now three times more expensive than they were in 7th edition.

I'd recommend getting Battlescribe on your phone, as it works all this out for you. It can be a little unreliable when a codex first drops for a while, but Space Marines for instance is all looking correct now.

Hellblasters are still ballers at 165pts for the stock unit of 5 though, so handle them carefully!

 Blackie wrote:

 SolidOakie wrote:


EDIT: Oh man so a land raider with twin lascannons is actually over 300 points holy moly

Some vehicles are now three times more expensive than they were in 7th edition.

Granted, also now three times more survivable. 2+ Land Raiders are no push overs and take serious AT to bring it down.

Exactly. In 7th a single lascannon could wreck or explode any vehicle in a single shot. Now it's literally impossible to kill any transport in a single shot with said lascannon.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Exactly. In 7th a single lascannon could wreck or explode any vehicle in a single shot. Now it's literally impossible to kill any transport in a single shot with said lascannon.

And in return you need less lascannon shots to take one down. Looking at statistical anomalities isn't best way to look things out. Yes you could blow out land raider in 7th ed with one shot. Not really likely though. In average it still ate more lascannons than they do in 8th ed.

 NurglesR0T wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 SolidOakie wrote:


EDIT: Oh man so a land raider with twin lascannons is actually over 300 points holy moly

Some vehicles are now three times more expensive than they were in 7th edition.

Granted, also now three times more survivable. 2+ Land Raiders are no push overs and take serious AT to bring it down.

Not always the case. The ork trukk is 3 times more expensive but maybe twice more survivable. DE vehicles are a bit tougher now but still paper things. Land raiders are way more tough now but they don't even cost twice as before. If they were 600 points they would be useless. Like ork vehicles.

and for those that did not know, most weapons in 2nd edition either were added to a base cost or they were upgraded points to a 'stock' unit. Some vehicles and units had weapons fixed to their base cost but not all.

Eldar Guardians were 11 points with LasGun or 14 points with Shuriken Catapult.

Much better to take a 9 point Eldar Pirate with no weapons and kit them out how you wanted for the same prices. 2 point lasgun or 5 point Catapult or flamer, pistols, cc weapons etc.

3rd thru 7th moved away from the first couple editions but now we have made our way back. I look for 9th edition to bring even more back, with modifiers currently reaching -3 or -4 to hit for some units. Wait till terrain is expanded in the rules.

tneva82 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Exactly. In 7th a single lascannon could wreck or explode any vehicle in a single shot. Now it's literally impossible to kill any transport in a single shot with said lascannon.

And in return you need less lascannon shots to take one down. Looking at statistical anomalities isn't best way to look things out. Yes you could blow out land raider in 7th ed with one shot. Not really likely though. In average it still ate more lascannons than they do in 8th ed.

That's fine. The main complaint about vehicles in 7th was that they were too vulnerable to mid-S high ROF weapons, MORE vulnerable than they were to things like lascannons, making such supposedly dedicated anti-tank weaponry pointless.

Now they are as they should be -- hard to take down with autocannons and scatterlasers and so on, but vulnerable to high-S low ROF weapons like lascannons and rail weapons..

tneva82 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Exactly. In 7th a single lascannon could wreck or explode any vehicle in a single shot. Now it's literally impossible to kill any transport in a single shot with said lascannon.

And in return you need less lascannon shots to take one down. Looking at statistical anomalities isn't best way to look things out. Yes you could blow out land raider in 7th ed with one shot. Not really likely though. In average it still ate more lascannons than they do in 8th ed.

And for Space Marine players in 7th, if you were using anything but Grav to take out anything you were doing it wrong. People really need to stop with that useless comparison, most high Strength single shot weapons were pure junk in 6th and 7th so nobody used them (melta was the exception thanks to how good the Melta rule was and how cheap and plentyfull the weapons were for most armies). Sure, it takes a lot less shots from Lascannons, Dark Lances and the like to drop a tank now but thats because these dedicated anti-tank weapons are actually capable of doing there intended job for once.

Or you could play whit powerpoints instead that is alot more casual.

All the units wep selection cost+ upgrade costs are included in powerpoints.