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Hello! My boy and I dropped into a local Warhammer store the other day, and he saw the space marines and was really quite interested. I printed out the ruleset I found online and gave them to him to read, telling him i'd go buy some miniatures if he still wanted to try it out after reading the rules. He's more of a video gamer so I'm quite excited to have him show an interest in something a little more 'real' (in a make-believe sort of way).

I'm thinking of picking up first-strike, but also looking to get more miniatures without breaking the bank, so ebay here I come! I see lots of what looks like sprues from older box sets, horus heresy burning prospero or Calth(?) with 10 figures in the ~$20 range, which seems like a better price per mini than the current GW offerings. The question though -- obviously for playing at our own kitchen table I can buy those minis and we can call them whatever we want -- we can do that with green plastic army men though. If we got to a gaming store (or in particular the Warhammer store with a big "GW miniatures only" sign) to play with other locals, is there a way to use those older miniatures in an 8th edition game? I saw in AoS that there were conversions for older miniatures, does or will the same thing exist on the 40k side for these older box-set minis?

thanks!

As long as the miniature doesn't misrepresent the equipment and was made by Games Workshop, you can use it no matter how old. If you had some models from the 90's or the 80's still kicking about they would be perfectly acceptable.

Welcome to Dakka and the hobby.

For the most part old minis are just fine to use. There might be some gear options you can't use, but those are going to be pretty rare. If you pick up a codex it will give you the rules for what is legal to field in an army.

I still field stuff from every edition of the game, all he way back to 1st edition without problems. There is a little scale creep from the oldest stuff, but it's still legal.

There's quite a bit of slack in how you represent a given unit on the field. For example, the marines you mentioned are in older versions of the power armor suits -- but they can still be used as modern marines.

The game has a rich history of modifying and customizing the miniatures (the practice is called "converting"), so as long as your miniatures are close to what you're representing, you'll be fine.

Sweet, thanks. I was teetering on the edge of getting some 3rd party Space Rangers for kitchen-table play, but if for only a little more I can get 'legal' minis then I'd rather go that route.

The Prospero and Calth marines are totally legit. They don't have specific rules, but give them the right weapons and they are perfectly acceptable as things like Tactical Marines, Devastators, Chaos Space Marines, or Havocs.

Those are "older" armors in the history of the lore, but still used in the current era. Those were great box sets, so quite a few people picked them up.

Pick up the starter set based on what you want to spend. They have a few different sets from $40-$160. Play a few basic games, then decide what to add after.

You might also have him look at the start collecting sets if he enjoys the intro games. You can get a basic starting army of the other races and paint sets without going too crazy.

Only old miniatures that might cause issues would be the ones that ARE old, ie released in 1980-1999 era more like it. GW has done lots of scale creep so those models are often noticably smaller so some people might get all pissed off about you trying to gain advantage through smaller easier to hide models.

Most people won't have trouble with that but there's always those who insist on current official model only.

I liked the Calth marines so much I've been using them as the base models for my force and adding chaos bits to them - they're still space marines, and nobody will take issue with them. The only thing I'll say against them versus the starter kit models is that they are multipart plastic kits with a ton of options - this is great for experienced folks who like the options and poses. If you're just looking to get some models on the table to learn the rules and see how the game plays, I recommend the starter sets. Most (all?) of the models are typically simple to assemble with no vauge extra bits or options that could result in an "accident". They're often push-fit too, so you don't even need glue to assemble them for the first few games (although I'd recommend gluing them together with plastic glue before painting).

Most, if not all of my army is "old". Such is my curse for playing chaos. My terminators are just about 18 years old now, same with my dreadnaught.

I picked up "First Strike" at a local store yesterday. The boy and I assembled the 3 intercessors and all the pox walkers so we could play through the "run away! run away!" scenario (or the "shooting pox-walkers in a barrel" scenario, depending on your perspective). He really wanted to be able to pose the guys, more-so than the "easy" assembly miniatures allowed, so I'm thinking he'll like the other style (though I may end up doing some of the assembly under his artistic direction).

The 'Prospero" tac-squad arrived today (and a calth tac-squad is enroute), so now I'm wondering whether that customizability will come back to bite us re: weapon choices. I haven't bought the codex yet (do we also need the index?) but I get the impression that out of the 9 regular troopers, only 2 of them can get heavy (or otherwise unusual) weapons? I've got some tiny magnets enroute too but I'm not sure they'll be small enough to allow us to swap weaponry on one of these little guys. Do I need to worry about weapon choice, or just let him pick the ones that "look cool" and eat the disadvantage if games at the store are WSIWYG? I guess I can always buy more marines. (eek! the pocketbook is already reeling and I haven't even started looking at Orks for *my* army yet)

<edit to add> Ok, so that's a lie. I've done plenty of LOOKING at ork stuff, just no _buying_ </edit>

Index or Codex. Don't need both for any one faction. Codex is newer (if one exists - Orks don't have one yet, just an Index).

Rule of Cool is what really matters. If you're playing in a GW store, it needs to be GW models. Otherwise, it's the Rule of Cool. Which is simply, if it looks good, do it. Some of my Harlequins are required to carry pistols, but for posing reasons aren't. Never once has anyone commented. They look awesome. So they are perfect.

3rd party might be cheaper, but second-hand works too, and won't sabatoge the asethetic or scale. Also, the basic Tac box is one of the best kits for customization in the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I magnitize vehicle weapons, but not infantry weapons. Making them look 'right' and good is very, very hard to do with magnets.

If you're not looking to be competitive, just pick a squad loadout and make them. It'll always be your first squad. Most of the weapons have a use (some are better than others for tourny play, otherwise I've found some utility in each of them). Just make sure your first squad is book-legal, and worry less about effectiveness. My first squad has a powerfist on the Sarge. Not as bad now as it was last edition, but I always use him. Because he's my first guy, and my games aren't so competitive.

I use 2mm magnets in the shoulders of my marines if I want to swap guns. Not sure what size you have en route.

For most marines a 10 man squad is one special weapon (meltagun, plasmagun, flamer)* one heavy weapon (Missile launcher, heavy bolter)* the sarge (with lots of options) and 7 basic marines with bolters. * there are more options, but these are the ones you will find in the BaC and BoP boxes

There are pros/cons for all the weapons. Which ones to give your tacticals normally depends a lot on what you want them to do and the rest of your list. Flamers for hordes, and some protection against being charged. Melta against heavy targets (but at very close range) Plasma is a decent all-around option. Heavy bolters help kill the same sort of things the squads normal bolt guns work against. Missile launchers are a way to get some long range anti-tank into your list.

One train of thought is to give the sarge a matching combi weapon to the squad’s special. This doubles their firepower against their chosen target (but cost more points). If you plan on getting close to the foe, a close combat toy could be fun, but I’d keep it to one of the low cost ones like a power sword. Save things like powerfists and thunder hammers for the more dedicated CC units.

For the casual game, everything can be viable. It’s only when you get point crunching where some things start to pull ahead. Where effectiveness takes a back seat to efficiency.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
If you're not looking to be competitive, just pick a squad loadout and make them. It'll always be your first squad. Most of the weapons have a use (some are better than others for tourny play, otherwise I've found some utility in each of them). Just make sure your first squad is book-legal, and worry less about effectiveness. My first squad has a powerfist on the Sarge. Not as bad now as it was last edition, but I always use him. Because he's my first guy, and my games aren't so competitive.

Edited to comment on this

This, absolutely this. I always try to incorporate my fist squad into lists. Even in editions where their loadout was pretty “meh”. Because they have been serving the Emperor faithfully for over two decades, and aren’t going to let something as trivial as suck rules on MLs stop them. (Missile Launchers are not bad these days, but they had some dark times) To bring this back the original question, you would be hard pressed to find older minis then these guys, and I still proudly field them. Never received anything but complements for doing so either.

I would suggest get the big rulebook, that gives structure for army selection.
It also has a ton of "fluff" info on the various races so you might get a feel for playstyle that you prefer.

If you are in no hurry, then buying parts of sets or used models can work out well, especially if you are an experienced modeler and do not mind stripping paint off or disassembly of models to be cleaned and put back together.

I play Space Marines: Black Templar and have an unholy blend of models from 2nd edition (1993) to now, you keep the paint style consistent, it all looks good.
I am figuring out how to better blend in my scouts with the mohawks though.

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Hello! My boy and I dropped into a local Warhammer store the other day, and he saw the space marines and was really quite interested. I printed out the ruleset I found online and gave them to him to read, telling him i'd go buy some miniatures if he still wanted to try it out after reading the rules. He's more of a video gamer so I'm quite excited to have him show an interest in something a little more 'real' (in a make-believe sort of way).

I'm thinking of picking up first-strike, but also looking to get more miniatures without breaking the bank, so ebay here I come! I see lots of what looks like sprues from older box sets, horus heresy burning prospero or Calth(?) with 10 figures in the ~$20 range, which seems like a better price per mini than the current GW offerings. The question though -- obviously for playing at our own kitchen table I can buy those minis and we can call them whatever we want -- we can do that with green plastic army men though. If we got to a gaming store (or in particular the Warhammer store with a big "GW miniatures only" sign) to play with other locals, is there a way to use those older miniatures in an 8th edition game? I saw in AoS that there were conversions for older miniatures, does or will the same thing exist on the 40k side for these older box-set minis?

thanks!

For what its worth Calth and Prospero minis are more "new" than 95% of the miniatures currently sold for the game.

 Talizvar wrote:
I would suggest get the big rulebook, that gives structure for army selection.
It also has a ton of "fluff" info on the various races so you might get a feel for playstyle that you prefer.

Is there such a beast for 8th edition? I looked for one at the local store (not GW but the 'generic' comic/gaming store) but didn't see one.

Coh Magnussen wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
I would suggest get the big rulebook, that gives structure for army selection.
It also has a ton of "fluff" info on the various races so you might get a feel for playstyle that you prefer.

Is there such a beast for 8th edition? I looked for one at the local store (not GW but the 'generic' comic/gaming store) but didn't see one.

I know one comes in the Dark Imperium box. I don’t think GW sells it separately. They might electronically? Or check bits sellers for people who broke up the starter sets.

So it exists. How hard to get is another question...

Poster putty (blu-tac and the like) can be a good way to make figures flexible. It isn't the strongest or prettiest solution, but it can make marine's weapons stay on until if/when you decide which arms to attach more permanently.

Coh Magnussen wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
I would suggest get the big rulebook, that gives structure for army selection.
It also has a ton of "fluff" info on the various races so you might get a feel for playstyle that you prefer.

Is there such a beast for 8th edition? I looked for one at the local store (not GW but the 'generic' comic/gaming store) but didn't see one.

Yep
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Warhammer-40000-rulebook-eng-2017

I got my book from eBay.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Poster putty (blu-tac and the like) can be a good way to make figures flexible. It isn't the strongest or prettiest solution, but it can make marine's weapons stay on until if/when you decide which arms to attach more permanently.

Magnets.
I usually use rare earth magnets for dreadnaughts and vehicles since the models can be expensive.
I have found that special and heavy weapons on standard troops is not as worthwhile to magnet up.
https://www.miniwargaming.com/magnet-guide

Thanks, guys. Ordered the book off ebay, the 2mm x 1mm magnets arrived, and I grabbed some Boyz from the LFGS to start assembling while the boy builds his space marines. We spent some time building tonight, he's asking about paint now.

Rather than magnetize the weapons on these little guys we're just going to build 'em up with glue, that's challenge enough for now! I got the rhomboid plastic cement bottle (Testors brand though, with the plastic applicator rather than the model master with metal applicator because that's all i could find) but you still have to squeeze it pretty hard to get any to come out, and i can't control the amount near as well as I'd like. I'm tempted to try squirting a little E6000 onto a plastic card and applying it with a toothpick.

Talizvar -- whoah! That's incredible! That level of detail on models this small just blows my mind.

The big book is okay, but I actually found the "Getting Started With Warhammer 40K" to be a better value - has a blurb about each of the races, the base rules and a walkthrough of a turn. And comes with a snap-fit intercessor primaris marine to boot. For about $8.

About the only thing the big book has that isn't available in other options is an in-depth look at Open Play, Narrative Play and Matched Play. Useful for those new to the hobby, but if you're an old hand probably not worth it.

Others haven't seemed to mention it, so I would suggest checking out the Indexes (Imperium I, II, Chaos, Xenos 1 & 2). For kitchen play, they are the more economical set of rules for the various armies - for some armies, their codex hasn't dropped and that's the only rules available for them.

There are some codexes out, and they're all pretty much power-ups for the army in question - more, and often more useful Strategms, more psychic powers and Relics. Most also have point reductions for various units and rules tweaks to make various units more agreeable.

Personally, ...