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Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt




The Balor System

Sorry this question has probably been answered like a million times but I’m just getting back into 40k lol. If an ap values makes the armour save worse than 6+ do you still get a save or does it ignore armour. For example if a ap-5 weapon wounded a model with a 5+ armour save would it completely ignore the armour??? Thanks guys

1750pts

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Made in de
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Germany

If the AP makes it impossible to roll the result on a D6 then it ignores armor.
   
Made in gb
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought





p5freak wrote:
If the AP makes it impossible to roll the result on a D6 then it ignores armor.
Technically incorrect. You have an armour save, it's just an armour save you might not be able to make on a D6. Positive modifiers might cancel out negative ones.

Example: You have a 5+ save, and are hit with an AP-2 weapon. Normally you'd need to roll a 5+ on a D6-2, which would normally give a result range of 1-4 (since anything less than 1 counts as 1), which means you can't possibly pass the save.

However if you were in cover, giving you a +1, you'd have to pass a 5+ on a D6-2+1, which gives a result range of 1-5, so it's possible to pass.

There is an important lesson here that even the best of us forget, the modifiers alter the DICE ROLL, not the characteristic. A model with a 5+ armour save that is hit with a AP-1 weapon still has to make a 5+ save, not a 6+ save, it's the dice that is changed from a D6 to a D6-1

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/25 13:06:44


   
Made in us
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McCragge

He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.

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Made in gb
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought





 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.
"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.

   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





 BaconCatBug wrote:
Technically incorrect. You have an armour save, it's just an armour save you might not be able to make on a D6. Positive modifiers might cancel out negative ones.

Well, technically its called the "save" characteristic, not armor save. Armor save cannot be modified but Save characteristics can be.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut




 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.
"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.
what about “ignores armour saves” and “makes it impossible to make an armour save”? Are those remotely the same?
   
Made in gb
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought





Bremon wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 Primark G wrote:
He was correct... he just did not go into as much detail.
"Ignores armour" and "Makes it difficult to pass an armour save" are not even remotely the same. One suggests that it cannot be mitigated in any way and the other is correct.
what about “ignores armour saves” and “makes it impossible to make an armour save”? Are those remotely the same?
They are subtly different, as explained before.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




You'll notice Pox Walkers have a 7+ save on their datasheet.

They have a save that is normally (outside of cover etc) impossible to make, which is different to not having an armour save.

Hope that helps clear up the difference.
   
 
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