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Screamin' Stormboy




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I'm not sure if this has already been talked about or not, but I'm just a little confused. Why do these guys, who make vehicles, weapons ect, have no transport vehicles?
Does anyone know a reason for this?

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Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)

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New Bedford, MA USA

c - oversight.

How much effort would have taken to give them a Chimera or Rhino entry.

   
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Regular Dakkanaut






Well the whole ad mech "army" is nothing but a big experiment.

First they split it up into two codexes, 1 elite and 1 regular that only brings the bare minimum of units, cuz making bigger plastic kits for a thing that is basicly just an experiment makes no sence. (no i dont want a standard SM vehicle as my taxi, if im admech, i want something completely unique that no other force in the empire has access to, cuz how many kataphron breachers do you think would fit inside a standard rihno or chimera and do they even fysicly fit true the door?)

Then they mesh them together in 8th cuz they know it aint worth it to futher develop them as 2 seperate armies and in the same prossess removes the cult mech stuff, and improvise changes one of the usless elite selections(tech priest) into a cheap hq instead of making new unique hqs.

no, GW cant make admech!
Only FW can as their 30k line is flooding with options and units but sadly the converted rules for their army into 8th is someying of a distant longshot.

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 Vallhund wrote:
I'm not sure if this has already been talked about or not, but I'm just a little confused. Why do these guys, who make vehicles, weapons ect, have no transport vehicles?
Does anyone know a reason for this?


The Ad Mech does have all these things and uses them - in the fluff, old, and new.

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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Right behind you.

Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)

It wasn't a problem before now since the Skitarii had their own Detachment and Formations that allowed you to bypass that requirement.

Realistically, the reason why AdMech didn't get transport units is that both books were intended to use alternate deployment methods while still being a primarily footslogging army.
Skitarii could make Scout moves but not Outflanks and Cult had access to a Formation that gave Deep Strike.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
Realistically, the reason why AdMech didn't get transport units is that both books were intended to use alternate deployment methods while still being a primarily footslogging army.
Skitarii could make Scout moves but not Outflanks and Cult had access to a Formation that gave Deep Strike.


Realistically, the reason why AdMech are a primarily footslogging army is because GW chose not to allocate resources to pruduce AdMech transports, and alternate deployment methods are a stopgap measure to make them playable without transports.

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Because making moulds for injection moulded plastic is difficult and expensive, and GW has an enormous backlog of spincasted models they would rather make in plastic. And GW naturally gives priority to whatever is selling. And that tends to be space marines, super space marines, super duper space marines and the newly released super duper mega space marines with even bigger pauldrons and even grimmer grimdark and even more rerolls. That's why.
   
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Well in 7th they had the Flesh Tearers chapter to cater for their needs.

Not anymore.

Plus Fires of Cyraxus should sort that problem.

From a fluff perspective, they are footsloggers. Hence the titanium legs.

GW said "Forge the Narrative". This means "we are too lazy to write a comprehensive and balanced rule set, just make something up to plug the gaps" - Ch 4, Page 13387 of the Lexicanus Bullshitticus Translatorum. 
   
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I think it was a design choice in 7th that Skitarii would be a mobile infantry force with advanced deployment options backed up by the big guns in heavy support and Cult Mechanicus detachments. This didn't translate into 8th at all and turned the faction into more of a traditional gunline army, either by choice of the designers or by accident. Either way, I was a little disappointed because the Scout move was one of the main things that appealed to me initially when I started collecting.
   
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 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


From a fluff perspective, they are footsloggers. Hence the titanium legs.


yes, great for the fluff, bad for the actual gameplay.
if they truly wanted this to be a footslogging army inboth editions, they would have given skitarii 8" default movement and kataphrons 10" default movement so we can actualy move around the table.

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 FrozenDwarf wrote:
 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:


From a fluff perspective, they are footsloggers. Hence the titanium legs.


yes, great for the fluff, bad for the actual gameplay.
if they truly wanted this to be a footslogging army inboth editions, they would have given skitarii 8" default movement and kataphrons 10" default movement so we can actualy move around the table.


They aren't Harlequins. Like everything in the Imperium they are methodically slow.

Accept your point that they can't exactly skate around the board for last turn objective grabbing but, like T'au, they were presumably designed as a gun wall army. GW probably didn't quite know how to handle them.

GW said "Forge the Narrative". This means "we are too lazy to write a comprehensive and balanced rule set, just make something up to plug the gaps" - Ch 4, Page 13387 of the Lexicanus Bullshitticus Translatorum. 
   
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They should have just had a pseudo relentless again where they could advance with no penalty. Instead they made it a chapter tactic
   
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 Mr Morden wrote:

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

Yeah, Marines are bestest! That's why Deathwatch had nice release in 7th/8th Index, instead of being mangled half-faction lazily nerfed by Kelly/Crudace wunderteam in a hundred of stupid ways, none of which make any sense, and that's also why Primaris have nice rules and access to a whole vehicle range instead of having botched ruleset that has no idea what to do with them and access to grand total of zero SM vehicles, despite being, you know, actual Astartes.

Oh, wait
   
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Right behind you.

 fraser1191 wrote:
They should have just had a pseudo relentless again where they could advance with no penalty. Instead they made it a chapter tactic

Let's remember that "Advance" is an actual ability/term now. It refers to forgoing your Shooting phase in order to have additional movement.

For the most part, AdMech stuff seems to be able to move and shoot with no penalty since their weapons are Rapid Fire or Assault in many cases. You don't need Relentless to be a thing with the new rules for weapons.

Now, their Scout move? That was a Big Deal for Skitarii. So was not having to take a Techpriest of some kind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 20:12:11


 
   
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Because making a tiny sprue with a few Ad Mech symbols to slap onto a Rhino kit or chimera kit would be too expensive and/or too intensive in brainpower, thanks GW.

Had to build my own set of chimeras, then they said allies can't use transports. Now in 8th I'm not sure. But I still have the Chimeras rolling around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/31 20:32:08


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Man I miss our 7th edition rules, though I fully and freely admit, WarConvo was overpowered as hell but equal in terms of Eldar/Skyhammer/Necrons. Back when GW sold detachments not armies.

Dunestrider should have been an army rule. Add 2 or 3" to all run and charge moves. Bam. Suddenly, your skitarri, rangers, servitors, jazzhands/discosticks, infiltrators, ruststalkers all have good to superb movement. Making transports redundant.

The rules writers dropped the ball and literally cut up the factions special abilitys and turned them into forgeworld ability making a huge and unsatisfactory mess of the whole codex.

A few adendums could fix the whole thing: Teleporatium Stratagem should be an army not forgeworld ability.
All skitarri should have Metallicas relentless march. Admech units should have Graia's refusal to yield.

Instead, you have to take 2 or 3 detachments to properly use each unit how its intended. The codex reaks of unthought-through army design. They did it backwards; they made the units rules designed around the forgeworld, instead of making the forgeworlds abilitys based around the units. which apparently they learned from as our codex was one of the firsts and just reading all the ones past it makes it quite clear that we were a rough draft for 8th. At least we are not Grey Knights though, who GW just decided to poop on.

That being said, with Chapter Approve, Admech stand as one of the most balanced if pigeonholed armies right now. We are strong and have many tools and are overall cost efficient, though some glaring examples still exist.... (Servitors and ruststalkers)

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 Irbis wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

Yeah, Marines are bestest! That's why Deathwatch had nice release in 7th/8th Index, instead of being mangled half-faction lazily nerfed by Kelly/Crudace wunderteam in a hundred of stupid ways, none of which make any sense, and that's also why Primaris have nice rules and access to a whole vehicle range instead of having botched ruleset that has no idea what to do with them and access to grand total of zero SM vehicles, despite being, you know, actual Astartes.

Oh, wait


You do realise that the only models relased for 8th Edition in 2017 were for Marine factions - no new Ad Mch, no new Eldar, no new Tryanids, no new Guard.

That the majority of codexs were Marine Codexes

Yet somewhow Marines are hard done by. Really? Primaris rules for vehicles are stupid - but of course they do get transports of their own - unlike Ad MEch who of course make them.


"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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 Mr Morden wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

Yeah, Marines are bestest! That's why Deathwatch had nice release in 7th/8th Index, instead of being mangled half-faction lazily nerfed by Kelly/Crudace wunderteam in a hundred of stupid ways, none of which make any sense, and that's also why Primaris have nice rules and access to a whole vehicle range instead of having botched ruleset that has no idea what to do with them and access to grand total of zero SM vehicles, despite being, you know, actual Astartes.

Oh, wait


You do realise that the only models relased for 8th Edition in 2017 were for Marine factions - no new Ad Mch, no new Eldar, no new Tryanids, no new Guard.

That the majority of codexs were Marine Codexes

Yet somewhow Marines are hard done by. Really? Primaris rules for vehicles are stupid - but of course they do get transports of their own - unlike Ad MEch who of course make them.



Maybe but new marines are a safe bet for GW. Admech where pretty risky as they where a brand new thing.

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BrianDavion wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

Yeah, Marines are bestest! That's why Deathwatch had nice release in 7th/8th Index, instead of being mangled half-faction lazily nerfed by Kelly/Crudace wunderteam in a hundred of stupid ways, none of which make any sense, and that's also why Primaris have nice rules and access to a whole vehicle range instead of having botched ruleset that has no idea what to do with them and access to grand total of zero SM vehicles, despite being, you know, actual Astartes.

Oh, wait


You do realise that the only models relased for 8th Edition in 2017 were for Marine factions - no new Ad Mch, no new Eldar, no new Tryanids, no new Guard.

That the majority of codexs were Marine Codexes

Yet somewhow Marines are hard done by. Really? Primaris rules for vehicles are stupid - but of course they do get transports of their own - unlike Ad MEch who of course make them.



Maybe but new marines are a safe bet for GW. Admech where pretty risky as they where a brand new thing.


But then Genestealer Cults? Also having AD Mech accessories for Land Raiders, Chimera, Rhinos etc is much less risky - and we have variant everything for every different shade of Marine.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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 Mr Morden wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:

GW could not be bothered to do any more than they did because they had Marine stuff to do - and if you complete and make full factions they might sell as well marines - can't be having that. They could have given them access to pretty much the entire Imperial vehicle range.

Yeah, Marines are bestest! That's why Deathwatch had nice release in 7th/8th Index, instead of being mangled half-faction lazily nerfed by Kelly/Crudace wunderteam in a hundred of stupid ways, none of which make any sense, and that's also why Primaris have nice rules and access to a whole vehicle range instead of having botched ruleset that has no idea what to do with them and access to grand total of zero SM vehicles, despite being, you know, actual Astartes.

Oh, wait


You do realise that the only models relased for 8th Edition in 2017 were for Marine factions - no new Ad Mch, no new Eldar, no new Tryanids, no new Guard.

That the majority of codexs were Marine Codexes

Yet somewhow Marines are hard done by. Really? Primaris rules for vehicles are stupid - but of course they do get transports of their own - unlike Ad MEch who of course make them.



Maybe but new marines are a safe bet for GW. Admech where pretty risky as they where a brand new thing.


But then Genestealer Cults? Also having AD Mech accessories for Land Raiders, Chimera, Rhinos etc is much less risky - and we have variant everything for every different shade of Marine.


Ohh I don't disagree, had they given CM accress to Land raiders and rhinos that woulda been great. however GW at the time AM came out seemed to be moving away from spreading the same unit to multiple differant factions. they seem to have revised this with 8th but....

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 Kanluwen wrote:
Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)

It wasn't a problem before now since the Skitarii had their own Detachment and Formations that allowed you to bypass that requirement.

Realistically, the reason why AdMech didn't get transport units is that both books were intended to use alternate deployment methods while still being a primarily footslogging army.
Skitarii could make Scout moves but not Outflanks and Cult had access to a Formation that gave Deep Strike.


Wasn't it their fluff to march everywhere instead of transports or is that outdated?
   
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Right behind you.

 n0t_u wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)

It wasn't a problem before now since the Skitarii had their own Detachment and Formations that allowed you to bypass that requirement.

Realistically, the reason why AdMech didn't get transport units is that both books were intended to use alternate deployment methods while still being a primarily footslogging army.
Skitarii could make Scout moves but not Outflanks and Cult had access to a Formation that gave Deep Strike.


Wasn't it their fluff to march everywhere instead of transports or is that outdated?

It was the fluff for the Skitarii codex yeah. I don't know if they kept it or not as I haven't bothered to drop a single cent on my AdMech since the stupid all-in-one book.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
 n0t_u wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)

It wasn't a problem before now since the Skitarii had their own Detachment and Formations that allowed you to bypass that requirement.

Realistically, the reason why AdMech didn't get transport units is that both books were intended to use alternate deployment methods while still being a primarily footslogging army.
Skitarii could make Scout moves but not Outflanks and Cult had access to a Formation that gave Deep Strike.


Wasn't it their fluff to march everywhere instead of transports or is that outdated?

It was the fluff for the Skitarii codex yeah. I don't know if they kept it or not as I haven't bothered to drop a single cent on my AdMech since the stupid all-in-one book.


Looking at the Skitarii Codex even the Skitarii do not always march.

p12
The vast majority of Skitarii are not bourne into battle by armoured machines or aircraft
- So some are.

The Ad Mech novels that came out with the codexes (IIRC) also detailed the transports as well as higher ranking Skitarii.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

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Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)
^

Almost certainly B. The introduction of the Mechanicus to 40k was...really poorly done.

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I'm hoping GW eventually gives them a transport. make it a walker n the vein of the AT-AT from star was, basicly a walking land raider

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xlDuke wrote:
I think it was a design choice in 7th that Skitarii would be a mobile infantry force with advanced deployment options backed up by the big guns in heavy support and Cult Mechanicus detachments. This didn't translate into 8th at all and turned the faction into more of a traditional gunline army, either by choice of the designers or by accident. Either way, I was a little disappointed because the Scout move was one of the main things that appealed to me initially when I started collecting.


I ascribe to this hypothesis too basically. Accident.

The "GW hates us" hypothesis is childish and requires no discussion.
The "They only care about space marines" hypothesis. Similar to they hate us, yes they love their smurfs, but they love money more.
The "Molds are expensive so they half assed the release." Normally I'd say that sounds about right. But the ad Mech sculpts are some of the best and most detailed they have, was that a test for whatever new tech they ended up using for the new DG and Primaris, as well as many new AoS lines, probably. (Regardless of your opinion on the design or fluff of these are unquestionably superior quality from a technical standpoint.) But as for it being why no transports, doubtful since they could have just put an entry in the codex for chimeras as others point out. And as we know they like money so selling more chimeras wouldn't be bad.

Sadly it's probably just the same thing it always is GW rules team being oblivious and poorly organized. Being all fiction writers someone thought it would be cool if they all walked terminator style, added fluffy rules for that in 7th, and called it good. And then in the rushed transition to 7th they only played no points level narrative games if any at all, didn't really collaborate with a well managed rules team on it, and no one noticed that they had those movement rules to balance the lack of transports.

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they are environmentally conscious after mars
   
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 thekingofkings wrote:
they are environmentally conscious after mars


Best answer. Thread resolved.
   
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Right behind you.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Voss wrote:
Multiple choice:

a- because army design, intentional limitations, etc.

b- because it was a trial release with a limited model production budget and they really didn't get all the basics done. (See no Skitarii HQ when that was actually a problem)
^

Almost certainly B. The introduction of the Mechanicus to 40k was...really poorly done.

Says you. The 8th edition version of Mechanicus is crap compared to the wonderfulness that was the Formation based Skitarii/Cult builds.

And War Convocation need not be mentioned. It was basically the only way to really be 'competitive' but that didn't make the other stuff any less fun or interesting to run for some people.
   
 
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