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I had made a thread about a week ago asking for advice on helping my boyfriend (Eldar) defeat my Orks. We got lots of nice advice there which has helped him. That combined with my suggestion of Dark Reapers after looking through his Codex. We've played two games since then and now he wipes out most of my boys on turn one. Both times I shook up my list a bit to try to combat the new super threat in his army.

I tried taking my Dakkajet to get across the table fast and maybe take out a squad of Reapers. Unfortunately he's gotten first turn both games and he weakens my jet so it's down to 6BS. That combined with the cover his Reapers are in nulifies the jet. The other game I tried to use Da Jump with shoota Boyz to pop behind him and shoot down a few squads. Like the jet though it's ineffective, the Reapers are in cover and so have a 2+ save. I can barely hit them and the terrain makes a charge not really possible. For our next game I'm planning to take some lootas and pray for first turn, maybe they can kill a squad at least.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I find I have no long range options that reliably hit and when they do I don't have the AP to make a difference. I'm maybe going to try small squads of trukk Boyz so they at least have a little protection from all the missles. Problem is Trukks are like paper and then I'm spending the points on them. Heck I didn't even mention all of his psychic and ways to negate perils that Eldar have. I knew my army was outclassed by his, now that he's finally figured out an effective way to eliminate my hordes I'm at a loss. Perhaps the codex will help some with klan rules and what not.

Fellow Warbosses, help me krump these pointy eared gits!

All boyz in a Mek 5+ bubble should wreck a Reaper nest. No way he can kill enough.

The answer to all ork problems is "take more boyz". The more competitive you get, the more boyz and less other inefficient stuff you need. Forget about trukks and jets. Boy, boyz, boyz...if taking all boyz doesn't help, wait for codex, boyz will get a buff and than boyz, boyz, boyz...

Well, can't say you didn't ask for it

As an Eldar player I worry about anything fast that can get on top of my Reapers quickly. Maybe swap some of your horde for Kommandos, Warbikes and/or Stormboyz... come at them from three different directions and one might succeed?

 koooaei wrote:
The answer to all ork problems is "take more boyz". The more competitive you get, the more boyz and less other inefficient stuff you need. Forget about trukks and jets. Boy, boyz, boyz...if taking all boyz doesn't help, wait for codex, boyz will get a buff and than boyz, boyz, boyz...

I could take another squad of Boyz, other than that I would need to buy more. I have about 90. I don't like this though, even though I know it's probably the best bet. It's just boring, every single game I have to play hundreds of models because all my other stuff sucks? Boyz don't really need much of a buff, it's basically all of our other units that need fixing. We shouldn't be forced to run one type of army in my opinion.

The kff will help, that's a good suggestion, thank you! I wish they still had that old kff model for sale.

I definitely did ask for it and I'm happy it happened. I didn't want to stomp him into the ground every game. I'm glad he's able to succeed and have more fun. I think some warbikers would be a good idea, I have 6 and a painboy on bike as well. I'll try them out next time, quite a bit of dakka they put out.

As usual, thank you everyone

Well, you are using an index army in a codex fight.

Reapers are one of the most OP units in the game right now. If he goes heavy Reapers, you really can't respond with a balanced list. Bikers would be an especially bad choice. What percentage of his list is Reapers? Maybe he could tone that down until you get your codex.

Stormboyz and Grots can be useful, too. But you have to make him shoot single wound models. Rush with some Storms, and jump a unit of boyz every turn. You could try a couple of Battlewagons and a Gorkanaut, not optimal but might work in combo with the jump/storm. Nothing multi wound that is under T8, though.

Are you playing straight kill, or are there objectives? You should dominate objectives.

Most of his army is Reapers now. Last game he took Eldrad, a Farseer, 3 squads of 5 reapers, a fire prism, a war walker and a hemlock. We do play objectives but the tempest launchers don't need LoS so I can't hide and camp objectives even. It seems they can always shoot me unless I stay at the back of my deployment zone. I'm hoping the next game I will be able to do better, I've gotten some suggestions that I think will help. We play on our kitchen island and I think it's a bit smaller than the standard 4x6 so I think having a proper size board might help me some. I tried using lots of terrain but the tempest launchers don't care.

Try proxying your dakkajet as a burna bomber. You can even get two. It...might help.

Dark Reapers melted my Primaris Dark Angels army even with Azrael Bubble... SAD!

The solution could be that he takes less Dark Reapers. But yeah he is spamming Dark Reapers, one of the most OP units in 8th, agaisn't a Index Army that sadly needs to spam boyz to compete in competitive meta. If he takes less Dark Reapers you can have more balanced lists and balanced games.

 KelseyC wrote:
I think some warbikers would be a good idea

Well, if you're allready having trouble running boyz, consider that dark reapers are almost 3 times better at killing bikers point-for-point.

Smaller board favors you, so...

1500? He has about 1/3 Readers, could be worse. Hemlock is even nastier for Orks to handle. Are you scoring points every turn, or just end of game?

If you go all single wound models, you should be able to compete.

Look, Dark Reaper spam is one of the most powerful builds right now. You will not be able to beat it without using a power build yourself. And that means boyz + KFF + painboy. Advance each turn and charge. Bikers will evaporate as soon as he looks in their direction.

Kommandos can also work well. Because they are boyz

First of all, I hope you both can stay chill about this stuff.

Secondly, as many people have said before, Dark Reapers are just ridiculous unit. Only real counter to Dark Reapers is just getting more Boyz as suggested. Other theoretical counter is going all in with high Toughness high Save 'superheavy' vehicles because Dark Reapers are not extremely efficient against those. Maybe one Gargantuan Squiggoth? Try out 2 Gargantuan Squiggots and rest of the list boyz and see how he likes playing against that one with his Reapers.
Dark Reapers basically are excellent against:
1) Elite (expensive) infantry/bikes etc.
2) T7 or less units
3) Units with 4+ save or worse
Dark Reaper damage output almost doubles with worse T and Save when compared between T8 Sv 3+ unit and T7 Sv 4+ unit.

Easiest solution would be to have talk with him and make him play less dark reapers so you don't need to start to play extremely spammy lists to counter his spam list.

You’ve created a monster!

From what you’ve said he has no units screening his, sonyou could try dropping in 3 units of stormboyz and a unit that got dajumped in. Out of those 4 you should be able to get into CC with 2 of them which should let the rest of your boys roll ip

Lots of fast bodies (teleported boyz, deepstriking kommandos, stormboyz) and maybe a few characters to protect some of them, like the big mek with KFF and a painboy.

Dark reapers are among the best anti tank in the game so spamming T4 bodies should be the most viable option for orks to counter them.

Or just wait a bit.

There is no way that reapers are surviving March, so starting the arms race for something that is sure to be solved in a couple of months could be a bad idea.

Agreed. Reapers stick out like a sore, sore thumb.

Considering terrain seems to be a problem for your charges, kommandos may struggle to reach his reapers. So Stormboyz. Loads of stormboyz. They won't be around on turn 2, but they do not need to be.

With da jump, mob up and kommandos spam is quite easy to have 70+ orks deepstriking turn 1, stormboyz aren't necessary even if they're quite good.

Have boys. Some units of 30, some of 10. Use the stratagem that melts them together. Cast da jump. Get the charge. Do it again next turn.

 Blackie wrote:
With da jump, mob up and kommandos spam is quite easy to have 70+ orks deepstriking turn 1, stormboyz aren't necessary even if they're quite good.

That was to adress specifally the issue of the terrain. As I've seen myself that jumping boyz 9'' from ennemies in a cover terrain can result to a longer charge.
Stormboyz having the fly keyword and not potentially closer than 9'' is a solid option.

Take a second Dakkajet.

Place your 1/2 jets wayyy back on your board - they have a 72" move range coupled with 36" on guns; they shouldn't be getting shot up T1 except by other jets.

Even if you can’t get the charge off, jumping a big mob of Shoota Boyz into range will, statistically, put out enough shots to cripple, if not kill, a unit of Reapers. Then there’s a massive mob of Orks behind their lines that the elves need to deal with, giving the rest of your army a bit of breathing space to move up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact, having just run the numbers, I might be inclined to throw a mob of 30 grots at them. T3 means the little guys have a decent chance of wounding with their blastas, and with the +1 to hit for 20+ models, The Gretchin are going to see off 3 reapers on average. The grots will for sure die, but that’s what grots are for, and they’ve basically made their points back while getting potentially six fewer Reaper shots coming your way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you luck out and can pull off a charge with the grots, they might even polish the Reapers off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, missed the part where the Reapers are in cover, which obviously makes things a bit trickier. My bad.

Spoletta wrote:
Or just wait a bit.

There is no way that reapers are surviving March, so starting the arms race for something that is sure to be solved in a couple of months could be a bad idea.

With GW's balance system(they don't care about balance) one can only hope. With GW's track record they could drop point cost of dark reapers...

I’ve gone away and had a think about this, and I wonder if the best way to splat them would be to chuck a couple of min-sized Stormboyz mobs at them. Big choppas on the Nobz. As with anything Orks, the tricky bit’s going to be getting them into position without getting shot.

Leverage Da-Jump. Forewarned doesn't work if the model isn't coming from tactical reserves, so you won't get forewarned.

Gretchins with artillery, stormboyz, da-jump, would all be solid to help you.

But honestly reapers are way too strong right now. In general anything that gives indirect fire is already strong, but adding in the bonus of having brutal base reaper launchers, WITH the indirect fire, for incredibly cheap, is a tough nut to crack.

Spamming them wins major tournaments. He's not fielding 30 against you, but it sounds like enough for your tabletop to do the same basic effect. It's unfortunate, but this unit is *not* balanced.

 koooaei wrote:
Try proxying your dakkajet as a burna bomber. You can even get two. It...might help.

I second this approach.
Bomb will take out half the unit, guns should take out some more. Enough to stop them being a problem.
Speed is enough that you should be able to bomb them first turn, andyou want it right in their lines anyway so it can explode spectacularly

Its not just you. Dark Reapers melted my Nids with intercept DS stratgem and the reroll to wounds. It sucked. I think the answer to this is that Dark Reapers need to be rebalance in the next Chapter Approved.

The hammer is coming for Dark Reapers. Doesn't help us now, but it's sure gonna make the people with 50 of them sad pandas.

Martel732 wrote:
The hammer is coming for Dark Reapers. Doesn't help us now, but it's sure gonna make the people with 50 of them sad pandas.

This is why i only kept my 10 of them, so far GW has been 100% on nerfing high comp spam units, (sadly they over nerf tho).