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Here's my Alpha Legion/Black Legion list that I'm slowly building for your C&C. I've read the CSM tactica thread and have tried to incorporate as much advice from there as possible. I'm going off the Codex and Battlescribe for points, I'll need to update it for CA.

Black Legion Battalion
Abbadon (warlord)
Sorcerer w/ Jump Pack (deep strikes onto Noise Marines and casts Prescience and Delightful Agonies)

1x30 Cultists w/ Pistol, CCW, 2x Flamers
2x30 Cultists w/ Autoguns, 2x Stubbers


Alpha Legion Outriders
Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Warp Bolter, 2x Talons (moves up to support deep striking Obliterators)

3x Spawn (fills out slots for cheap, deep strike protection, counter charge, draws some fire)

20x Noise Marines w/ 2x Blastmaster, 18x Sonic Blaster, Icon (infiltrates, pops Endless Cacophony and, VotLW)

2x Obliterators


105 Power Level, 2001pts, 9 CP.

Thanks for your input.

Love it! Only problem i see is how do you keep all cultists within abandons bubble? Also, drop a cultist, it’s always nice to be below the point limit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, why infiltrate the noise Marines? If they stay in failbaddons by bubble for morale it would be terrible to have the unit locked up in melee, and even worse, without fearless they will loose models to morale. Keep em back behind a cultist screen and have a midrange gunline


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And with that, keep em black legion for reroll to hit. Maybe make one cultist blob even bigger, say 40 and have the option to bring it back with the stratagem. The other 2 could be reduced to 19 to deny killpoints

Thanks mate. Abbadons morale aura works for all units with 1 model within 12". (Not with my codex atm so will double check later). Should be pretty easy to achieve. So the plan was to have each autogun cultist squad flanking abby, with the ccw squad up front. They'll react to objectives as needed, and when one runs low, they get recycled and respawn where theyre needed. Im under no illusion about fitting these squads in cover.

My original plan was to have the noise boys in a kharybis pod, drop onto a midfield cover with the sorc. He'd warptime the pod into the enemy and prescience the squad, who'd pop cacophony and votlw. Hopefully taking out a huge chunk of the enemy. Then, being as scary as they are, get shot and take reaction shots as they die. But with the chapter apporoved points increase on the kharybdis, im going plan b. Which uses alpha legion strategum to infiltrate instead of the pod. Combine AL -1 to hit and delightful agonies (instead of warptiming the pod) to have a bit more staying power. But yeah, the noise boys are there to kill as much as possible in the first turn or two before they get splatted. By comparison the fearless cultists are for board presence and objective control. Im not arguing, just explaining my thought process.

What do you mean by dropping models to deny kill points? I thought it was 1 unit = 1 kp. Is it done by power level now.

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/11/30/itc-champions-missions-updated/

Yeah, mixed abandons aura with the warlord trait.

If you only have 19 models you don’t give up a easy reaper and you get more bang for you buck with the stratagem. I’m just thinking with the infiltrating punk rockers, you have 12 drops and can’t rely on even getting the bonus on the roll. If you face a melee oriented army I see a risk of your vanguard getting stuck in cc with some tarpit of some kind. I think you need to infiltrate a unit of cultists as well just to screen, and then you get into detachment troubles (but you could sort it by making the big blob alpha legion and switching abbadon and the prince). Also I’m not convinced about the spawns, but it’s hard to fit the detatchments, maybe a few havocs instead and make a spearhead? I don’t know much about daemon Slaanesh, is there something there you could soup in?

Ahh I see where I got confused, I'm not familiar with ITC rules. I've just been playing vanilla 8th.

That's a good point about protecting the Noise Marines from early charges. I could split 10 or 15 models off from the BL Cultist squads and infiltrate them alongside. It's a good idea I think. With Abby, I have the extra CP to spare.

My first thought was making a spearhead by adding a squad of Havocs. Thing is though, I've got roughly 100pts to play with. A 100pt Havoc squad seems a bit underwhelming. Minimum squad leaves 45 points for heavy weapons. So that's a single lascannon or missile launcher + heavy bolter, 2 autocannons, 3 heavy bolters, or 3 plasma guns. So I compare a couple of backfield heavy weapons to 3 Spawn counter charging, running interference, drawing fire etc. I'm kinda drawn to the Spawn. I am wary though, of them being very vulnerable to multi damage shots, especially with me not bringing any tanks or hellbrutes. My hope is that I'll be able to hide them. I'm not sure, what are your thoughts on this?

I'm a new Chaos convert, so I'm still figuring all this out. I'm not really that familiar with Daemons too much, I may be able to summon 100pts worth instead of bringing Spawn. I'll look into it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at Daemons, I'm limited to Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Demonettes and Horrors, if I don't want to bring a whole new detachment of demons. I could easily fit a minimum squad of any of these but I'm unsure as to their effectiveness.

the_Jakman wrote:
Ahh I see where I got confused, I'm not familiar with ITC rules. I've just been playing vanilla 8th.
really that familiar with Daemons too much, I may be able to summon 100pts worth instead of bringing Spawn. I'll look into it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at Daemons, I'm limited to Plaguebearers, Bloodletters, Demonettes and Horrors, if I don't want to bring a whole new detachment of demons. I could easily fit a minimum squad of any of these but I'm unsure as to their effectiveness.

I’ve taken the liberty to recreate what I think is the backbone that you want with some ITC optimisation. I’ve switched the daemon Prince and the sorcerer as it would let me give intoxicating elexir to him, making him a melee monster. He can still buff the obliterator with reroll ones as they are Slaanesh daemons just like him. Here all is tactically black legion, but that can be switched.

You could mark the melee blob Khorne, if you face imperials, you give them precience next to abbadon and then using the fury of Khorne, as your death to the false emperor would trigger on a 4+, making the blob do on average 243 hits to an imperial unit, making you able to kill stuff via a death by a thousand cuts if the unit is ignored, forcing at least imperial players to waste shots into the unit that you plan to regen anyways. (Fluff wise atrocious but I’m thinking competition now.



From here you have 300 points to spare but you are a CP short. To use the tactics above your detachment organisation is somewhat locked. As said above, I’m skeptical of infiltrating the noise marines, you at least need a screen for them and then your investing quite a lot of CP in them (1 for ds on the noise marines, 1 for screen, 2 for cacaphony, I for veterans), leaving you with only 3 left.

You run a true horde army with no appealing targets for las weapons until the obliterator drops down. I think you want to keep it this way as long as possible. One obvious choice here is just more obliterators, maybe with another sorcerer on foot, as Warptime could give you some much needed mobility.

You lack some capacity to take down vehicles in range, say your facing a guard army with punisher tank commanders, they would cut you down In heaps and if he screens well it could even be hard to reach em with ds from the obliterators. Here is an idea to have two units of havocs in the back line






Automatically Appended Next Post:

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [110 PL, 1998pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Abaddon the Despoiler [12 PL, 240pts]: Warlord

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 183pts]: Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Slaanesh, Warp bolter

Sorcerer [6 PL, 100pts]: Combi-bolter, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 88pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 17x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [6 PL, 88pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 17x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [12 PL, 160pts]: Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, 38x Chaos Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

+ Elites +

Noise Marines [19 PL, 393pts]
. 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster: 2x Blastmaster
. 16x Marine w/ Sonic blaster: 16x Sonic Blaster
. Noise Champion: Bolt pistol, Sonic blaster

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [10 PL, 178pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

Havocs [10 PL, 178pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Total: [110 PL, 1998pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Made a slight change, sorcerer don’t need ds really, so plucked his jump pack away, removed flamers, a noise marine and the 2 extra cultists I out in the shooting blobs for 2 extra Lascannons while keeping chaff havoc for the odd wound


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about it, i would keep the noise marines black guard, but make the heavies alpha legion along with the sorcerer for hq, but I wouldn’t infiltrate with any unit (beside obliterators teleporting in )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bah, after rereading the alpha legion stratagem, it happens after you roll for first turn, making it more viable..... decisions decisions....

I like this list, it could be effective but CP voracious.

If you drop the demon prince and havocs in the suggestion above you can find room for a Death Guard detachment with 3 Drones and a Poxbringer.
With list that rely on slow advance the drones are awesome as they draw a lot of fire from other units and they are really difficult to kill, considering that the Poxbringer cost Fleshy Abundance on the every turn
They are 544 points with spitters or 478 with flashmower

Thanks guys, it's responses like this that keep me coming back to Dakka. You've given me a lot to think about. My first purchase arrived today, (20 noise marines), I'm pumped to start putting them together!

the_Jakman wrote:
Here's my Alpha Legion/Black Legion list that I'm slowly building for your C&C. I've read the CSM tactica thread and have tried to incorporate as much advice from there as possible. I'm going off the Codex and Battlescribe for points, I'll need to update it for CA.

Black Legion Battalion
Abbadon (warlord)
Sorcerer w/ Jump Pack (deep strikes onto Noise Marines and casts Prescience and Delightful Agonies)

1x30 Cultists w/ Pistol, CCW, 2x Flamers
2x30 Cultists w/ Autoguns, 2x Stubbers


Alpha Legion Outriders
Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Warp Bolter, 2x Talons (moves up to support deep striking Obliterators)

3x Spawn (fills out slots for cheap, deep strike protection, counter charge, draws some fire)

20x Noise Marines w/ 2x Blastmaster, 18x Sonic Blaster, Icon (infiltrates, pops Endless Cacophony and, VotLW)

2x Obliterators


105 Power Level, 2001pts, 9 CP.

Thanks for your input.

Very similar to a list I'm working on, I think the Noise Marines are a really good option for Forward Operatives. Even if you lose initiative you'll still get a round of firing off with them, anyhow, here's the list I'm doing with them:

On the table: AL Chaos Lord, AL Sorcerer, IW Chaos Lord, 3x Cultists, 2x Brimstone
Off the table: DP Tzeentch, 3x Obliterators, 1x Pink, Changecaster, Noise Marines (CP cost 5) - I may alter this depending on playtesting results.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [32 PL, 519pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Tzeentch

+ HQ +

Changecaster [4 PL, 78pts]: Boon of Change, Gaze of Fate

Daemon Prince of Chaos [8 PL, 156pts]: Daemonspark, Malefic talon, The Impossible Robe, Warlord
. Tzeentch: Flickering Flames

+ Troops +

Horrors [4 PL, 30pts]: 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

Horrors [4 PL, 30pts]: 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

Horrors [12 PL, 225pts]: Daemonic Icon, 30x Pink Horror

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [39 PL, 704pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Slaanesh

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Delightful Agonies, Force sword, Mark of Slaanesh, Prescience

+ Elites +

Noise Marines [19 PL, 412pts]
. 2x Marine w/ Blastmaster: 2x Blastmaster
. 17x Marine w/ Sonic blaster: 17x Sonic Blaster
. Noise Champion: Chainsword, Sonic blaster

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, Mark of Slaanesh
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [35 PL, 659pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ Heavy Support +

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterator

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Tzeentch, 3x Obliterator

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Tzeentch

++ Total: [106 PL, 1882pts] ++

The problem with this last list is that bromstones and cultists die orribly fast, so if you start second it's guarantee that you concede First Blood.
I strongly advise you to shift the warlord to the Iron Warrior Lord and give him the Cold and Bitter trait that give a auto morale pass in 6". This way you could still run big bubbles of cultist that are much more useful since if needed you can recycle them or use stratagems on them.

 brugner8 wrote:
I like this list, it could be effective but CP voracious.

If you drop the demon prince and havocs in the suggestion above you can find room for a Death Guard detachment with 3 Drones and a Poxbringer.
With list that rely on slow advance the drones are awesome as they draw a lot of fire from other units and they are really difficult to kill, considering that the Poxbringer cost Fleshy Abundance on the every turn
They are 544 points with spitters or 478 with flashmower

Keep in mind, not a death Guard Detachment, since Poxbringer is not an HQ choice for DG, nor has the DG faction Keyword. So no Locus on the Herald, and no DG Strategems.

 brugner8 wrote:
The problem with this last list is that bromstones and cultists die orribly fast, so if you start second it's guarantee that you concede First Blood.
I strongly advise you to shift the warlord to the Iron Warrior Lord and give him the Cold and Bitter trait that give a auto morale pass in 6". This way you could still run big bubbles of cultist that are much more useful since if needed you can recycle them or use stratagems on them.

Honestly, if they win first turn and choose to shoot at Cultists and Brims, thank you. Please, spend your first turn digging those garbage units out of their hidey holes and gunning them down.

Those units are battalion fillers, that's all, if they manage to get ignored by my opponent and get to grab an objective or two, maybe kill a scrub here and there, super.

Also, Daemonspark affects the Obliterators, so I'm definitely not swapping out the Warlord trait.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 brugner8 wrote:
The problem with this last list is that bromstones and cultists die orribly fast, so if you start second it's guarantee that you concede First Blood.
I strongly advise you to shift the warlord to the Iron Warrior Lord and give him the Cold and Bitter trait that give a auto morale pass in 6". This way you could still run big bubbles of cultist that are much more useful since if needed you can recycle them or use stratagems on them.

Honestly, if they win first turn and choose to shoot at Cultists and Brims, thank you. Please, spend your first turn digging those garbage units out of their hidey holes and gunning them down.

Those units are battalion fillers, that's all, if they manage to get ignored by my opponent and get to grab an objective or two, maybe kill a scrub here and there, super.

Also, Daemonspark affects the Obliterators, so I'm definitely not swapping out the Warlord trait.

I don't know, Daemonspark is just a basic ability of the prince with +3", this one and the impossible robe don't seem very solid choices for me.

You're right on fact that every Brimstone or cultist killed is good for other units but you start -1 vp from beginning and you need something to score objectives, with no troops I noticed everything became more hard for you, as a part for the deep strikers you don't have very much mobility

 brugner8 wrote:
I don't know, Daemonspark is just a basic ability of the prince with +3", this one and the impossible robe don't seem very solid choices for me.

You realize that Daemonspark is on the wound roll right? You realize that that is the only place in the game to get any kind of wound re-roll on ranged damage for chaos right?

 brugner8 wrote:
You're right on fact that every Brimstone or cultist killed is good for other units but you start -1 vp from beginning and you need something to score objectives

Why am I -1 VP to start? I will be very surprised if my opponent is really dumping fire or spending resources to go dig out cultists and brimstones.

 brugner8 wrote:
with no troops I noticed everything became more hard for you, as a part for the deep strikers you don't have very much mobility

So I have no troops based on an assumption that all 6 of my troop units will be found and killed on the first round of my opponent's shooting? Including the 30 man Pink Horror squad that has 118 points worth of reinforcements available for it?

Anyway, we're derailing a thread which is ostensibly about someone else's army, I really posted mine as an example for the OP and in support of his choice to FO Noise Marines, which I think is a very solid choice.