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2018/02/28 19:11:05
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Just played a game where my opponent set up a dreadnought on top of a ruin. I complained, but after checking the rules there is nothing preventing a vehicle being set up on the first/second/third floor of a ruin. All the rules say that the vehicle must end its movement on the buttom floor, or something like that. If it doesnt move it can stay there. Or did i overlook something ?
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2018/02/28 19:14:50
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Sigh. This is why we can't have nice things. There's always some guy who thinks this is great and fun and claims it's "RAW" to make them seem clever.
HIPWI is that if a vehicle can't end a move there, it has no right to be there at all. YMMV.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2018/02/28 19:17:03
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Off hand I would say that after the movement phase the dreadnaught had better be on the ground floor of the ruin. Just because you choose to move your model 0" doesn't mean he didn't move it just means he didn't go anywhere.
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2018/02/28 19:18:38
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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'Claims to be RAW' implies that it's not. AFAIK, there is no rule stating where a vehicle can set up, only where it can finish its move and no FAQ clarifying it. And think of it as an airdrop gone wrong, or a very inventive commander. The narrative is as strong as your imagination!
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2018/02/28 19:27:42
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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Have we forgotten the FAQ?
"Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’"
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2018/02/28 19:36:02
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Furious Fire Dragon
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Mr. Shine wrote:Have we forgotten the FAQ?
"Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’"
This guy gets it.
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2018/02/28 21:19:25
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Mr. Shine wrote:Have we forgotten the FAQ?
"Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’"
Ok, missed that one.
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2018/02/28 21:20:45
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Mr. Shine wrote:Have we forgotten the FAQ?
"Page 248 – Ruins
Change the first paragraph of rules text to read:
‘Unless they can Fly, Vehicles, Monsters, Cavalry and Bikers can only be set up or end their move on the ground floor of ruins.’"
Oh I had! Nice to see they patched it to match the obvious intent. Shame they had to.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2018/02/28 21:33:27
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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Pretty sure I've had a whoopsie or two recently where I didn't bother to think of checking the FAQ. Happens to the best of us
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2018/02/28 21:34:59
Subject: Re:So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator
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This is an excellent case in point as to how blooming scattered GWs rules are, however.
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Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. |
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2018/02/28 22:35:14
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
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2018/02/28 22:56:40
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2018/03/01 11:38:27
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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They really should sort their FAQs into a searchable database.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2018/03/01 14:27:38
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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JohnnyHell wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
No. Again they're all in one place and ctrl + f exists.
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2018/03/01 14:40:48
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Farseer_V2 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
No. Again they're all in one place and ctrl + f exists.
Ok, so when the Death Guard answer applies to a different army's differently named but same effect abilities, how do you search for that?
I get what you're saying but you're busy defending an unwieldy, non-user friendly system.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2018/03/01 14:44:07
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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Farseer_V2 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
No. Again they're all in one place and ctrl + f exists.
But you can't control + f all of those together. You have to open each faq and control + f all of them. Also what do you search for some queries when they're more or less answered for you but in a different army's faq in a scenario with different units? And there are 3 separate faqs you'd have to search for brb stuff so you'd need to open and search them all. Its unwieldy.
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There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
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2018/03/01 15:14:52
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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Zarroc1733 wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
No. Again they're all in one place and ctrl + f exists.
But you can't control + f all of those together. You have to open each faq and control + f all of them. Also what do you search for some queries when they're more or less answered for you but in a different army's faq in a scenario with different units? And there are 3 separate faqs you'd have to search for brb stuff so you'd need to open and search them all. Its unwieldy.
A) I read each FAQ when it comes out (they're maybe 2 pages in most cases) so I rarely have to search
B) I keep a document of important changes with the FAQ listed
Now I'm not asking everyone to do either of these - however I don't really think most people (who have the mental capacity to play 40k) lack the cognitive skills to skim a document or form a coherent search query. Again - everything is listed on one page, in chronological order. Taking a few minutes to familiarize one's self with the main book FAQs and then relevant FAQs for ones armies really isn't that much to ask.
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2018/03/01 15:24:18
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Farseer_V2 wrote: Zarroc1733 wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote: JohnnyHell wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:Really? They're all in one place. Easy to find, referenced in chronological order.
And for a BRB question you have to trawl through three documents, that really should be collated into one now.
For an AM Relic question you need to look at the Custodes FAQ.
For a 2nd relic in a combined Imperium force you have to look at the Death Guard FAQ.
For a Tyranid Hive Tyrant query you have to refer to the Index Xenos 2 FAQ.
Etc.
Now do you see why people say the info is scattered?
No. Again they're all in one place and ctrl + f exists.
But you can't control + f all of those together. You have to open each faq and control + f all of them. Also what do you search for some queries when they're more or less answered for you but in a different army's faq in a scenario with different units? And there are 3 separate faqs you'd have to search for brb stuff so you'd need to open and search them all. Its unwieldy.
A) I read each FAQ when it comes out (they're maybe 2 pages in most cases) so I rarely have to search
B) I keep a document of important changes with the FAQ listed
Now I'm not asking everyone to do either of these - however I don't really think most people (who have the mental capacity to play 40k) lack the cognitive skills to skim a document or form a coherent search query. Again - everything is listed on one page, in chronological order. Taking a few minutes to familiarize one's self with the main book FAQs and then relevant FAQs for ones armies really isn't that much to ask.
They shouldn't have to wade through all the different FAQs (considering things like the Death Guard answer on relics, you may have to comb every single FAQ, not just the main rulebook FAQ, Designer's Commentary and Stepping Into a New Edition). I think expecting people to have to do that to find anything isn't appropriate. They really should at least consolidate the main rulebook FAQ, Stepping into a new Edition and Designer's commentary into one FAQ and include questions that would apply to more than one army (like the CSM/Death Guard getting relics from each faction question). I't's not a case of cognitive skill, it's a case of having to search through all the different FAQ's. Especially if you're in a tournament, the amount of time it could take is beyond what it should be if the FAQs were done properly.
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2018/03/01 15:26:17
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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You should absolutely not be at a tournament and needing to search FAQs like that. You or your opponent should have a printed copy of ALL (including if necessary the DG FAQ) relevant FAQs.
That said this is tremendously off-topic so I'm going to leave it alone.
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2018/03/01 15:29:18
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Deadshot Weapon Moderati
MI
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Farseer_V2 wrote:
Taking a few minutes to familiarize one's self with the main book FAQs and then relevant FAQs for ones armies really isn't that much to ask.
Compiling all the FAQs so that you just need to ctrl-f one document is not that much to ask for either.
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2018/03/01 15:31:20
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Farseer_V2 wrote:You should absolutely not be at a tournament and needing to search FAQs like that. You or your opponent should have a printed copy of ALL (including if necessary the DG FAQ) relevant FAQs.
That said this is tremendously off-topic so I'm going to leave it alone.
Your statement is incorrect. You play something and the opponent challenges you on it. Now you have to find it. It doesn't matter if you have printed copies of all of the FAQs (I'm assuming you have them); you still are taking time to look through the FAQs to find the proof. Or, you're calling for a TO to make a ruling and have to wait on that. Either way, it's wasting time that wouldn't be wasted if the FAQ's were set up properly.
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2018/03/01 15:33:47
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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As a GK player my FAQ has like 3 questions so I bring it along. However, I think that it's a little much for me to bring along all of the FAQs for all of the books. I don't know who I'm going to be playing in any event and I can't count on them bringing all of the relevant FAQs. There needs to be a better way to find answers since it could take a while to find an answer to a codex question (not to mention if there is a related question in an unrelated codex).
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2018/03/01 15:57:51
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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doctortom wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:You should absolutely not be at a tournament and needing to search FAQs like that. You or your opponent should have a printed copy of ALL (including if necessary the DG FAQ) relevant FAQs.
That said this is tremendously off-topic so I'm going to leave it alone.
Your statement is incorrect. You play something and the opponent challenges you on it. Now you have to find it. It doesn't matter if you have printed copies of all of the FAQs (I'm assuming you have them); you still are taking time to look through the FAQs to find the proof. Or, you're calling for a TO to make a ruling and have to wait on that. Either way, it's wasting time that wouldn't be wasted if the FAQ's were set up properly.
No - if you are using a ruling that is challenged you should be aware of where the answer is located. You know what you're going to get challenged on.
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2018/03/01 16:15:33
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Maybe yes, maybe no. You might not know everything you are boing to be challenged on. Assuming you do is foolish. The FAQs shouldn't put you in a place where you have to hunt for all the answers if it's something you can't remember quickly; that's a problem of them of not consolidating FAQs, not a problem of the person trying to remember.
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2018/03/01 16:24:55
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Exactly. If you have to take a guess which of the three main Rulebook FAQs your query is in then all you know is the three should be compiled into one, for the sanity of all. It's not about mental capacity or ability, it's about the documents no longer being fit for purpose. Easy enough to compile and revise, and hopefully the March update will do just that.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2018/03/01 19:43:25
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator
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ikeulhu wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:
Taking a few minutes to familiarize one's self with the main book FAQs and then relevant FAQs for ones armies really isn't that much to ask.
Compiling all the FAQs so that you just need to ctrl-f one document is not that much to ask for either.
This is a pretty simple solution that GW could do. I myself have done this but it's annoying to update my own files when they release a new faq
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There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
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2018/03/01 20:07:43
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Farseer_V2 wrote: doctortom wrote: Farseer_V2 wrote:You should absolutely not be at a tournament and needing to search FAQs like that. You or your opponent should have a printed copy of ALL (including if necessary the DG FAQ) relevant FAQs.
That said this is tremendously off-topic so I'm going to leave it alone.
Your statement is incorrect. You play something and the opponent challenges you on it. Now you have to find it. It doesn't matter if you have printed copies of all of the FAQs (I'm assuming you have them); you still are taking time to look through the FAQs to find the proof. Or, you're calling for a TO to make a ruling and have to wait on that. Either way, it's wasting time that wouldn't be wasted if the FAQ's were set up properly.
No - if you are using a ruling that is challenged you should be aware of where the answer is located. You know what you're going to get challenged on.
Sounds like what TFG would do with his seemingly illegal but legal as per RAW would do...
"wait, no I don't think that's legal."
"WELL, HERE ARE ALL OF THE DOCUMENTATION THAT PROVES THAT I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG."
Why would you be in a situation that you KNOW you're gonna be challenged on if it isn't on the grey line to begin with?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/01 20:09:01
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2018/03/01 20:20:27
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Dakka Veteran
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Because its a tournament? Also what's grey in some people's minds isn't in others (see the plethora of threads of people who don't understand why people are using Saim-Hann bikes in a Ynnari detachment). I know the portions of my army that people are going to ask questions about because I know which parts are weirder than average rules interactions. This is just as much about having to explain that no they FAQ'd it to work this way when the common understanding was different before the FAQ. But feel free to assume I'm TFG.
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2018/03/01 21:42:58
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Niw if only GW had a publication maybe one a year that could have compiled all the FAQ's into a single source along with and clarifications or points changes, so you only needed codex plus Rules plus the new book say 40k 2017, 40k 2018. Wouldn't that be helpful and worth buying?
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2018/03/01 21:47:46
Subject: So, RAW you can set up a vehicle on first/second/third floor of a ruin ?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If they remember to include the complied FAQs in the book.
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