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Hi Dakka!

How do people interpret 'wholly within'? To my mind there are two ways to rule it, depending on what scope you give 'wholly':

The strict reading:
Each model's base/hull has to be completely contained within the area, with nothing hanging over the edge of the area.

The loose reading:
Individual models do not themselves have to have their entire base/hull within the area, but EVERY model in the unit must at least touch the area for the unit to count as wholly within it.

Thoughts? Or is there some clarification in an FAQ?

It's the first, it was in the basic rules FAQ.

Within means any part of the base and wholly within means the entire base.

 Lance845 wrote:
It's the first, it was in the basic rules FAQ.

Within means any part of the base and wholly within means the entire base.

I found the FAQ question you're referencing, but it seems to contradict what you are saying. Specifically this bit:

"So long as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover."

So for the purposes of terrain that gives cover, it looks like this supports the loose interpretation.

Also be aware that some rules have been errata/FAQ from within to wholy within just to make life easier.

For terrain it's the loose form because the rules for terrain say so

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’ and ‘within’ for rules purposes?

A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so long as any part of the unit/model is within.

Example: For Terrain it's "the unit has to be entirely within" means every model has to be somehow on the terrain piece.

For deployment it's "A player’s models must be set up wholly within their own deployment zone." so no crossing the deployment line with the base/model of any model in the unit.

Edit: Just remember there is "wholly within" and "within".

I agree with BaconCatBug,

The terrain rules specify whether they have to be wholly within, or just within the terrain to gain the benefit. There is a huge world of difference.

It is like getting out of a Rhino, the transport rules say they deploy within 3", so that means that as long as any part of the base for the model is deployed within 3" I am good to go. Versus the Blood Angels relic banner, The Banner of Sacrifice specifies that models must be wholly within 6" of the model carrying the banner to gain the benefit. It is pretty clear from the wording what they want you to do to fulfill the requirements for within versus wholly within.

Ok, so is the difference basically whether the rule specifies models or units have to be within the range/area?

Or is it case by case special snowflake rules?

Stux wrote:
Ok, so is the difference basically whether the rule specifies models or units have to be within the range/area?

Or is it case by case special snowflake rules?

If it says "Wholly within" then every model of the unit must have the entire base/model within that range. If it just says "within" only a single model has to have a sliver of base in range.

The terrain rules are different because they don't use "Wholly within" or "within", they have their own rules.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Stux wrote:
Ok, so is the difference basically whether the rule specifies models or units have to be within the range/area?

Or is it case by case special snowflake rules?

If it says "Wholly within" then every model of the unit must have the entire base/model within that range. If it just says "within" only a single model has to have a sliver of base in range.

The terrain rules are different because they don't use "Wholly within" or "within", they have their own rules.

I think my confusion is coming from the FAQ. Here is the entry in full:

Q: Can you clarify what the difference is between ‘wholly within’
and ‘within’ for rules purposes?
A: If a rule says it affects units/models that are ‘wholly
within’ then it only applies if the entire unit/model is
within. If it just says ‘within’, however, then it applies so
long as any part of the unit/model is within.

For example, units gain the benefit of cover if every
model in the unit is either on or within terrain. So long
as all the models in that unit are either on or partially
within the terrain, they gain the benefit of cover.

The first paragraph attempts to define Within Vs Wholly Within.

It then references terrain explicitly as an attempt at an example of the above, in which it says all the models have to be within the area, but only partially.

...the base is generally part of the model is it not? So if the base if fully within 6", chances are the model is as well since measurements are taken from the base.

I hate to say it, but the FAQ is quite clear to me. What it describes for terrain is showing that models only have to be within terrain (not wholly within) to gain the benefit.

I could have my 5 man Tactical squad just overhanging the edges for a forest, with none of them being wholly within, to gain the benefit of cover since being within the terrain is all that is required.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
...the base is generally part of the model is it not? So if the base if fully within 6", chances are the model is as well since measurements are taken from the base.

I'm not trying to pull shenanigans by claiming anything to do with separating models from bases, that much is clear to me don't worry!

My confusion is not about what it means for a model to be wholly within, but a unit. To perhaps help illustrate where I'm coming from, compare 'the whole unit is within' to 'the unit is wholly within'. These are generally analogous sentences in English, but it appears they mean slightly different things in the rules. Which is fine, so long as I know it!

I THINK I'm finally there:

Within means partially in the area. A model being within an area just needs to touch it, a unit being within an area just has to have one model touch it.

Wholly Within means fully in the area. A model is wholly within an area if it's base is completely contained in the area, a unit is wholly within an area if ALL models in the unit are completely contained in the area.

Terrain is NOT special snowflake, it just uses wording that sits somewhere between the two. All models in the unit must be within the area, which is subtly but importantly different to a unit being within an area or from a unit being wholly within an area.

Is that about right?

Yeah I think you've hit it on the head there.

Stux wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
...the base is generally part of the model is it not? So if the base if fully within 6", chances are the model is as well since measurements are taken from the base.

I'm not trying to pull shenanigans by claiming anything to do with separating models from bases, that much is clear to me don't worry!

My confusion is not about what it means for a model to be wholly within, but a unit. To perhaps help illustrate where I'm coming from, compare 'the whole unit is within' to 'the unit is wholly within'. These are generally analogous sentences in English, but it appears they mean slightly different things in the rules. Which is fine, so long as I know it!

I THINK I'm finally there:

Within means partially in the area. A model being within an area just needs to touch it, a unit being within an area just has to have one model touch it.

Wholly Within means fully in the area. A model is wholly within an area if it's base is completely contained in the area, a unit is wholly within an area if ALL models in the unit are completely contained in the area.

Terrain is NOT special snowflake, it just uses wording that sits somewhere between the two. All models in the unit must be within the area, which is subtly but importantly different to a unit being within an area or from a unit being wholly within an area.

Is that about right?

I think you've got it... here's my handy picture...



Unit A is Wholly Within 1.

Unit B is Entirely On or Within 2. (Terrain like we're discussing, getting out of vehicles)

Unit C is Within Aura 3. (String out those guys with one toe in for the buff)

To give examples of each:

Example 1 applies to Kustom Force Field and Deployment, any effect that says a unit must be "wholly within".

Example 2 applies to Terrain, Disembarking and any effect that requires every model in the unit to be within range, but doesn't need them to be wholly within.

Example 3 applies to any aura that just asks that the unit is "within" range, such as the various re-roll auras.

Also keep in mind some effects (like Azrael's Lion Helm) only affect MODELS within range, not units.

The key difference between the two is where the "whole" is.

For Terrain the term is the Whole Unit has to be within. The whole there is referring to every model of the unit, not their relationship with the distance.

There are some that say a unit must be wholly within X", in which case the whole is referring to both the sum of the models in the unit and their relationship to the distance (meaning no part of any base can spill outside of the X" for it to count).

There is a 3rd term which is just plain a unit must be within X". In this case only part of a single model has to be within X" for it to count, the rest of the unit can be spread out from there and still get the benefit.