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Howdy Y’all

I am getting back into 40k after ten years away. After a bit of research, picking up the rules and codex, I have decided to go with Imperial guard. I was wondering if I could get some constructive input on a prospective list I have made for a Steel Legion mechanized army list.

To save the time and repetition of posting multiple list, I am consolidating my 500 point list,1000, 1500, and 2000 point list in one forum. The list will be divided by point values. I am looking for feedback on each of the different list, Particularly how to best use my points in the 1000, and 1500 point range.

Tactics

The Armageddon CDXX Steel Legion
Current Assignment: Secure the ruins of Hive Blackfire as and establish a bulwark against approaching chaos forces.

Background
Founded in the waning days of the 3rd war of Armageddon, The CDXX Steel Legion was mustered to defend Hive Tartarus from the final Waaagh of the mad Warboss Dreambreaka against the then beleaguered Hive Tartarus. Originally composed of conscripted gangers and criminals from the underhive of Hive Tartatrus, the CDXX redeemed its conception by holding Hive Tartatrus from the green skinned xenos until aid finally arrived from Hive Volcanus. As the war gradually subsided, the CDXX kept its tradition of conscripting from the gangs of Armageddon. Despite initial beliefs that the unit would be impossible to discipline beyond brutal martial law by Commissars, the CDXX maintains orderly, or at least semi orderly discipline. Former gangers are treated as brothers, and the unit is often described as a larger gang. The unit has never suffered crises of heresy, nor revolted.

Company Commander Venandi Album
Former gang leader from a fairly prominent house Hive Tartarus, Commander Venandi has risen through the ranks for his leadership skills in maintaining unity amongst the antagonistic former gangers who make up the bulk of the CDXX and his tactical brilliance in mobile warfare. After decades of repeated attack by the remnants of the 3rd War of Armageddon green skin xenos. Commander Venandi has been tasked with securing the ruins of Hive Blackfire and commanding the combined forces of Armageddon.

Lord Commissar Rebellis Valance
A former Adeptus Arbites Judge of the 4th precinct of Hive Tartarus, The Lord Commissar was conscripted by the Officio Prefectus in the waning years of the 3rd war for Armageddon. Lord Commissar Rebellis serves as Commander Venandi’s 2nd in command, earning the distinction thorough his cultivation of Indomitable determination amongst the ranks of notoriously rowdy CDXX. The lord Commissar is the authoritarian of the two commanders, enforcing Commander Venandi’s will when diplomacy fails. Commander Rebellis’s unwavering enforcement of Lex Imperialis amongst his ranks, and iron will have earned the CDXX Steel Legion the distinction of requiring no priests to maintain order or faith, as the devotion to the Emperor is firmly enforced through martial law.

Company Commander Marcus Aurelius
A noble born to one of the middling houses of Hive Tartarus, Commander Aurelius has risen to his position through a combination of political connections, and logistical brilliance. Commander Aurelious insight into resource management have proven critical for maintaining a formidable defense for the beleaguered hive.

Company Commander Cornelius Delphinus
A former Gang leader from a lowly house of Hive Tartarus, Commander Delphinus has earned his position through his daring bravery and battle front command. One of the first “Plasma Dogs” Commander Delphinus has been with the CDXX since its founding days, and has lead innumerable foolhardy chimera charges directly into the heart of the green skinned xenos.

“The Caravan”
Primary composed of former gangers, and inmated from Hive Tartarus, “The Caravan” is known for their mobile infantry tactics, rapid redeployments, and beautiful graffiti adorning the hulls of their trusty Chimeras. Supported by plasma guns, these former dregs of Armageddon are united in defending their hive from the relentless incursion of the green skin xenos.

Commissar Invictus
A quiet, stoic, and solitary man, Commissar Invitus is noble born to a now bygone house of fallen Hive Blackfire. Commissar Invictus joined the Officio Prefectus just before the great calamity in the twilight days of the 3rd War of Armageddon. Commissar Invitus has a burning hatred for the green skin xenos because of what happened to his Hive and House.

Commissar Ixion
A low born Nobel of a prominent House of Hive Tartarus, Commissar Ixion is a furtive and secretive man who maintains a boisterous bravado amongst his troops. Commissar Ixion seems to have a particularly uncomfortable reaction when the topic of chaos and heresy is broached.

Commissar Dia Lustitiae
A noblewoman of a well-regarded House of Hive Tartarus, Commissar Dia is one of the newest graduates of the Officio Prefectus. The CDXX is Commissar Dia’s first assignment, and she has found the unit to be hospitable, if a bit unorthodox compared to what she commanded in training.

“The Chorus of Armageddon”
Composed of innumerable Heavy mortar squads, “The Chorus of Armageddon” is the close heavy support of the CDXX. Focused on maintaining constant bombardment while the CDXX remains safely within “The Caravan”, “The Chorus of Armageddon” has earned their name because of the restless sounds of mortar fire which echo within the hulls of the Chimeras.

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Hecatoncheires”
One of the two remaining original Leman Russ Battle Tanks of the CDXX Legion, Hecatoncheires earned its name from the hundreds of green skins xenos it has mowed down in defense of Hive Tartarus.

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Campe”
The other remaining original Leman Russ Battle Tank of the CDXX Legion, Campe earned its title for its devastatingly accurate battle cannon also known as “The Scorpions Sting”

Veterans “Plasma Dogs”
Constructed from the toughest gangers of Hive Tartarus, and the longest surviving members of “The Caravan”, the “Plasma Dogs” are the vanguard of the CDXX Steel Legion. Known for their reckless Chimera charges into the heart of the green skin xenos horde, the “Plasma Dogs” truly stand out amongst the ranks of the CDXX Steel Legion.

Scout Sentinel “Rocket Man”
A vanguard of the CDXX Steel Legion, Rocket Man is one of the few operating Scout Sentinels of the Legion. Primary deployed to protect “The Caravan” from deep strike and alpha strike attacks. Rocket Man earned his name for the distinctive rocket launcher it is equipped with.

Scout Sentinel “Iron Giant”
A vanguard of the CDXX Steel Legion, Iron Giant is one of the few operating Scout Sentinels of the Legion. Primary deployed to protect “The Caravan” from deep strike and alpha strike attacks. Iron
Giant warned its name for a remarkable takedown of a xenos Gargant with a single hunter-seeker missile.

Scout Sentinel “Twilight Idol”
A vanguard of the CDXX Steel Legion, Twilight Idol is one of the few operating Scout Sentinels of the Legion. Primary deployed to protect “The Caravan” from deep strike and alpha strike attacks. Twilight Idol earned its name for exceptional kill of xenos devote to a blasphemes god.

Spearhead Detachment
LXIX Armageddon Ork hunters “The Steel Column”
Tank Commander Actaeon Venatoris
The true armor of Hive Tartarus, Tank Commander Acteaon leads the armored spearhead charged with supporting the CDXX Steel Legion. Commander Acteaon is not a man of many words or pomp and circumstances, nor is Commander Acteaon like the ganger rabble of the CDXX. Commander Acteaon and his “Steel Column” are trained tankers and engineers tasked with providing armored support to the legion and a wall of steel for Hive Tartatrus. Pragmatic, calculating, and methodical, Commander Acteaon tactical brilliance in armored warfare have heavily contributed to the continued defense of Hive Tartarus.

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Aristaeus”
Leman Russ Battel Tank “Aristaeus” is one of Commander Acteaon’s “Steel Column”. Earning its name for its persistent bravery, and development of new and useful armored tactics, Aristaeus is one of the most formidable of the “Steel Column”

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Autonoë”
Leman Russ Battel Tank “Autonoë” is one of Commander Acteaon’s “Steel Column”. Earning its name from its frenzied assaults on the mechanical abominations of the green skinned xenos. Autonoë has very nearly been destroyed a number of times, yet still it manages return back to Hive Tartarus.

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Chiron”
Leman Russ Battel Tank “Autonoë” is one of Commander Acteaon’s “Steel Column”. Earning its name because of its exceptional tactical wisdom in maintaining armored protection for the CDXX legionnaires. The men and women of the CDXX always breath a sigh of relief when they see their chimeras are under Autonoë’s protective gaze.

Leman Russ Battel Tank “Melampus”
Leman Russ Battel Tank “Melampus” is one of Commander Acteaon’s “Steel Column”. Earning its name for its uncanny ability to read the animalistic tactics of the green skin xenos mechanized abominations, Melampus is perhaps the most renowned armored units in the “

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Welcome back, your list looks cool Mech guard with vet squads are however not the most competitive right now just fyi. But it might still be fun to play. It has just gotten alot easier to get plasma guns in range with deepstriking scion squads.

One thing that pops out is the low number of CPs, if you added some fast attack and troops you almost have the brigade. Plasma in troop squad is awesome, but not many people feel the need for vox, but maybe it's needed more in mech guard.

A single commander is not enough for orders, so you should properly add a couple more.

You could consider removing a couple of chimeras to pay for it.

Besides this I think you have a good mix of anti inf and anti tank.

One thing that pops out is the low number of CPs, if you added some fast attack and troops you almost have the brigade. Plasma in troop squad is awesome, but not many people feel the need for vox, but maybe it's needed more in mech guard.

Could you tell me why people tend to avoid the use of vox casters?

I think it's because of costs. 6 squads with vox almost nets you another full squad or a company commander, and since troops are mostly used for screening the range doesn't matter if you keep the commander close. If you want to advance some squads you can advance the commander along with them. A cheap brigade can be made with 3 commanders and 6 squads, since the commander can give 2 orders it fits nicely.

As for mech guard it might make more sense with vox, but you could also bring a commander along with the vets in the chimera, but it starts to get expensive pointwise by then.

What is the Roman numeral supposed to be?

I don't think there's much point in taking chimeras over tauroxen unless you are looking to make use of their additional space. Tauroxen are cheaper and quicker. In general I would consider storm bolters superior to heavy stubbers due to points differences. Voxes could be of some use in mech lists as you are more likely to spread out than in a foot list, but I'd still just add them in if you have points to spare. I'll propose an alternative list and explain after

Battalion - Armageddon
2 Company commanders 60
2 Infantry Squads plasmagun, boltgun 96
2 Infantry Squads, plasmagun, boltgun, vox 106
2 Veteran Squads 3 plasmaguns, boltgun, vox 210
3 scout sentinels multi laser 135
4 Tauroxen 2 autocannons 296
2 Chimerae, 2 heavy bolters 182

Spearhead - Catachan
1 Tank Commander battle cannon, 3 heavy bolters 213
4 Leman Russ battlecannon, 3 heavy bolters 672

1970
Extra to sprinkle with storm bolters, voxes or whatever


The Armageddon doctrine doesn't do much for heavy tanks like the leman Russ. Usually things with AP-1 are anti infantry weapons so typically won't shoot a T8 tank. The T6 Tauroxen however may get some so it's useful on them. So I'd split out the russes into a Catachan spearhead giving them all objective secured and better shot consistency (about 2 extra battlecannon shots a Russ per turn avg). You can still consider them "armageddon" if you want, it's just a rules work around.

A commander goes into each chimera with a vox infantry squad, the vets are the ones you'd most likely want to send orders to. Armoured Fist and Bring it down on a vets squad would make some pretty potent plasma at 18". And remember if you don't want to disembark your commander you can always use the Mobile Command Vehicle strat.

Someone may have to correct me here but I think when in a transport your Warlord isn't considered "on the battlefield", but as a reinforcement. So for grand strategist, you can still use the re roll as he's alive but until he gets out of the transport I don't think you can use the command point Regen roll. Id be tempted to try Old Grudges for a WT. You'd still have to get out the vehicle as the transports not the 'Warlord' but the reason being, your highest weapon strength is 8. So if someone comes along with anything T8 or a super heavy, your having a hard time wounding it with those battlecannons. Old Grudges will greatly increase your Russ output against a super heavy if you see one. Also you don't have that many CP to get good mileage out of grand strategist anyway. I'd be hesitant to name the tank commander your Warlord as well.

The scout sentinels are to form a picket to stop 1st turn or deep strike assaulters. Note that they scout move after deployment, so if someone has infiltrators like scouts or rangers (pretty common) you can't scout up to them. But as you are a vehicle list and have good speed, you shouldn't need to push to the edge of your DZ in deployment anyway. So pull it back a little and push the sentinels to the edge in deployment, don't rely on the scout move because you can't always use it. Depends on the mission of course but you've got good range on the autocannons and battlecannons so you don't need to rush in from the get go.

You could rearrange to a brigade to maximise CP by bringing in the Russes and grabbing some more troops and an elite, but I don't think it's worth it. 7 CP is okay and everything here performs a roll, either deterring, killing or grabbing objectives. A brigade would result in some random infantry squads standing in the backfield. Not terrible, but cannon fodder and the russes are obsec anyway...

 hunter5021 wrote:
One thing that pops out is the low number of CPs, if you added some fast attack and troops you almost have the brigade.

Personally I'd go for double battalion rather than a brigade. Adding some fast attack seems easy to some, but for others (like me), it involves a lot of money being spent on stuff we don't necessarily need.

 DoomMouse wrote:
What is the Roman numeral supposed to be?

Hah!

.

What is the Roman numeral supposed to be?

Those are the numbers I am useing for my Legion. Added just to make the list a little bit fluffy

The Armageddon doctrine doesn't do much for heavy tanks like the leman Russ. Usually things with AP-1 are anti infantry weapons so typically won't shoot a T8 tank. The T6 Tauroxen however may get some so it's useful on them. So I'd split out the russes into a Catachan spearhead giving them all objective secured and better shot consistency (about 2 extra battlecannon shots a Russ per turn avg). You can still consider them "armageddon" if you want, it's just a rules work around

That is a fantastic idea!

If I were to add fast attack, would it be better to go with Scout Sentinels or rough riders? I remember rough riders being pretty sick in close combat back in the day, but it looks like guard is just to weak for real close combat now.

On the note of rough riders, are there any good GW model bikes to be used for conversions, because I feel that would go better with the mechanized aesthetic.

What is the advantage of the Tauroxen? I keep looking at the entry and just cannot understand why it would be preferable to a Chimera

 hunter5021 wrote:

What is the Roman numeral supposed to be?

Those are the numbers I am useing for my Legion. Added just to make the list a little bit fluffy

I was more just wondering what actual number it was meant to represent...


Regarding the list, the missile launcher HWS sticks out a bit - probably best to drop it for more points towards infantry or vehicles.6 S3 wounds for 78pts is just a bit fragile.

What doommouse if saying it that they're not correct Roman numerals, you could have xxiv or xxvi for 24 or 26. But ivxx isn't anything.

The advantage of the taurox is that it's faster and cheaper. The difference is space, weapons and toughness. 2 autocannons or 2 heavy bolters aren't much either way so if say equal enough. The space is only useful if you need it and the toughness is something significant but you just have to weigh it against the price difference

I was more just wondering what actual number it was meant to represent...

What doommouse if saying it that they're not correct Roman numerals, you could have xxiv or xxvi for 24 or 26. But ivxx isn't anything.

Ah now I understand! I am glad you brought that to my attention before I started painting the designation on tanks and such! I believe I should have it corrected.

Regarding the list, the missile launcher HWS sticks out a bit - probably best to drop it for more points towards infantry or vehicles.6 S3 wounds for 78pts is just a bit fragile.

I understand what you mean about them being a bit fragile. Honestly, they were included because I am going to have a ton of these weapon teams. I am working on a revised list, and will see if I cannot allocate those points to something more sturdy, perhaps another Russ or infantry squad + Chimera.

Updated List Version 2.0

This new list is incorporating some of the advise y'all gave. I appriacate all of y'alls help and input! I am still getting use to these new rules.

I agree that dividing the list into a Battalion and a Spearhead is a good idea. The Catachan ability is far more useful for the heavy tanks. I can also make that play in with the Armageddon fluff with the nerw addation of Armageddon Ork Hunters who look heavly modeled after the Catachan.

I dropped the Heavy Weapons squads in favor of more troops. The Spearhead has plenty of anti-armor firepower, and the extra veteran squads with plasma can help compensate. Further, the squad is too fragile, and has limited range given line of sight restrictions.

I have dropped the vox-casters. The general idea is to run the infantry armor in groups, with commanders inside both groups. By keeping them close together, there should not be a need for the extra reach of the vox-casters. I am awaiting clarification about the grand strategist rule to decide if it should be dropped in favor of Old Grudges. On the point of clarification, do vehciles still block line of sight? In otherwords, can I use the angle of the vehicles to shield the disembarked infantry from fire?

I adopted the double veteran/plasma squad as a group of those two can be a serious distraction, and serve as the basis of a two wave strike, as an opponent would need to deal with all that plasma. The idea would also be to stick that platoon commander in with them so they have a junior officer for orders if necessary.

On the Issue of Fast Attack, perhaps if I could get some clarification about why they are helpful. How do the Scouts stop deep strike? As I have stated, I am getting back in after a decade away, and my understanding of deep strike is from 4th edition. Are rough riders viable instead? I could fit a 7 man squad with two plasma guns instead of the sentinels who could follow up and support the veteran squads.

I chose to not adopt Taurox because I still do not understand why these are better than a chimera. Why are Taurox faster than chimera? The Taurox is not a fast vehicle correct? Chimeras have that little bit of extra armor which sounds better given the list looks like it can be seriously crippled with the early destruction of the transports.

Things are a bit different this edition from previous ones,

Vehicles now have a move stat, the Taurox goes 14" to the Chimera's 12". In my opinion if you want the transport capacity get the chimera, otherwise just go for the Taurox because its 20% cheaper.

Things cant deep strike within 9" of another unit. So you can put units on the edges of your force to push that bubble out so they cant reach your main force in the centre. The fast attack slot is often used for that in brigades because you have to take some and there's not that many good choices for fast attack in guard. But scout sentinels are cheap enough and can do this role decently. There are ways other than deep striking to get off first turn assaults, often these are by using strategems but they still have to be outside of 9" of your units. The issue with your vehicles is they could get assault locked. If a transport say got into assault it cannot shoot, it has to fall back or fight in melee. If it falls back if cant shoot that turn and may just get charged again. And if you fall back and disembark the guys inside you can't shoot with them either as they have fallen back too. So you could get locked up by assaulters reasonably easy. A couple ways to try mitigate this is by having something like sentinels to make your no deepstrike bubble bigger. Another way is to take a leman russ with 3 heavy flamers that you can throw in front of melee units. You can get it in their way to protect your other stuff and if they charge it, the overwatch will hurt.

And I checked about the Warlord traits from inside transports, pg 183. You're not considered on the battlefield so for grand strategist you cannot recycle CP on a 5+ unless you get out. Likewise for Old Grudges, abilities of units dont work when embarked, so you'd have to hop out for that too. But my thoughts were that you'd have greater affect hoping out for one turn for Old Grudges than you would for Grand strategist. You haven't got a relic, so you could get Kurov's Aquila for get some more CP.

 rahxephon wrote:
Things are a bit different this edition from previous ones,

Vehicles now have a move stat, the Taurox goes 14" to the Chimera's 12". In my opinion if you want the transport capacity get the chimera, otherwise just go for the Taurox because its 20% cheaper.

Things cant deep strike within 9" of another unit. So you can put units on the edges of your force to push that bubble out so they cant reach your main force in the centre. The fast attack slot is often used for that in brigades because you have to take some and there's not that many good choices for fast attack in guard. But scout sentinels are cheap enough and can do this role decently. There are ways other than deep striking to get off first turn assaults, often these are by using strategems but they still have to be outside of 9" of your units. The issue with your vehicles is they could get assault locked. If a transport say got into assault it cannot shoot, it has to fall back or fight in melee. If it falls back if cant shoot that turn and may just get charged again. And if you fall back and disembark the guys inside you can't shoot with them either as they have fallen back too. So you could get locked up by assaulters reasonably easy. A couple ways to try mitigate this is by having something like sentinels to make your no deepstrike bubble bigger. Another way is to take a leman russ with 3 heavy flamers that you can throw in front of melee units. You can get it in their way to protect your other stuff and if they charge it, the overwatch will hurt.

And I checked about the Warlord traits from inside transports, pg 183. You're not considered on the battlefield so for grand strategist you cannot recycle CP on a 5+ unless you get out. Likewise for Old Grudges, abilities of units dont work when embarked, so you'd have to hop out for that too. But my thoughts were that you'd have greater affect hoping out for one turn for Old Grudges than you would for Grand strategist. You haven't got a relic, so you could get Kurov's Aquila for get some more CP.

Super useful info! Specifically on the scout sentinel front. I can see what they are good for, and how they help shore up a serious issue.

I will see about incorporating some Taurox then. Only three units need the extra space. The saved points could go to more sentinels.

There appears to be a good number of heavy bolters, so I could spare a Russ to act as that flame guard. That is a pretty sick overwatch. That is a wonderful tip!

I totally forgot to put the relic. Good catch. That can be added.

just here to take notes

 Machiavelli wrote:
just here to take notes

Take all the notes you need!

I have updated the list to include the list at various point values. I am particularly looking for insight in the 1000, and 1500 point list.

Hey, cool fluff! Already a fan of the Plasma Dogs. Keep it going.

Insight into your 1500 point list... I think your sentinel pilot is a really clumsy guy irl. Spends all day firing a missile launcher from a bipedal robot, he probably gets rocked all over the place haha.

Uh, strategy insight, I'd recommend spending a command point to give your other commander laurels of command. With Grand strategist and the aquila you should never be out CP'd anyway. Definitely go for it in the 2000 point list if you convert it into a brigade, which I would do by dropping the Russ, adding a 3rd commander, 2 infantry squads, and a 3rd sentinel. But this is based off your original lists. Just food for thought anyway.